Unsolved JonBenet Ramsey

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ep2018

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I bet on my own life that the brother killed her by accident by striking her in a fit of rage and the parents covered it up.

I doubt she was strangled. More likely the brother used the rope to drag her into the basement by her neck in a childish attempt to hide what he had done.

Sad story...
 

ep2018

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So who strangled her after?

Mum and Dad? That's ****** up immensely.
Not the actions of loving parents. Its like they all hated her.
As above I believe Burke used the rope to move her away from where she was struck. She was likely still alive (barely) when she was dragged, however in the process she would have likely died from the compression around her neck, causing the death described by the coroner in her autopsy.

My theory on what happened.

1. Despite the parents claims, I believe they were all asleep at the time.
2. Burke goes down to make himself some pineapple and tea as a late night snack. JB also at some point wanders down, notices Burke and the bowl and attempts to take a piece, Burke tells her to go away. In typical young child behaviour, JB takes a piece with her hand anyway and trudges off back to bed. In a fit of rage, Burke strikes her in the head with a heavy object from behind, probably the torch mentioned in the CBS doco. Burke had a history of being violent and had struck her on occasion in the past.
3. Burke attempts to wake her to no avail. As mentioned in another post here, he may have used a piece of train set to poke her in an attempt to gain a response, which caused the two circular marks on her body that many believe are to be taser burns. At this point he probably assumes she is dead. Due to his age he probably doesnt even attempt to check for a pulse and her breathing was likely shallow enough to be disguised as a lack of breathing.
4. Burke shits himself and wanders back to his room, probably spending an hour or so running different ideas in his head as to how he can explain this to his parents, all the while JB is suffering irreversible brain damage due to inter-cranial swelling as she is still alive. At some point he childishly comes to a conclusion that he needs to hide her to make the problem 'go away', or maybe in an attempt to buy himself some more time.
5. Using techniques he would have learned at boy scouts during his time there, he broke a paintbrush found on his mother's desk in half for better grip and in conjunction with a piece of rope, wrapped it around JB neck and dragged her to near her final resting place down in the basement. In the process the rope would have cut off blood supply to her head, causing her official death. In the dragging process, the 'unknown male DNA', probably in the form of a hair picked up off the carpet which may have dropped from a male friend of the family on a previous occasion, finds it's way onto her clothing. Burke heads back into his room.
6. Parents subsequently find her at some point, and Burke will spill the beans, probably making a senseless, childish claim and an attempt of denial. "I didn't hit her hard mum, I swear." Parents ultimately decide to cover up the crime and fake a kidnapping. Reasons being a) they didn't want to lose another child (Burke) to possible imprisonment and b) they were a privileged white family who's reputation would go down the toilet if the son was found to have killed the daughter. They may have also believed that due to the dragging of her body, the police would not believe that her death were an accident, which would have given them another reason to make up a kidnapping as opposed to telling the truth.

The sad thing is that had Burke run to alert his parents as opposed to trudging off to his room after the original strike, they would have called 911 and JB may have survived.

The only way I can make sense of the strangling, is if she wasn't actually strangled in an attempt kill her but to move her.
 
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Dawn to Dark

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If it was an intruder that killed her they would have waited hours before the ramsays returned home. It was a truly horrific crime

There was also another incident in the area similar to JB but the mother caught the alleged intruder. Its also been reported a neighbor heard screams around the time JB was presumed to have been killed.

I reckon it was Michael Helgoth who apparently committed suicide soon after. But i guess we will never know
 

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Kurve

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The sad thing is that had Burke run to alert his parents as opposed to trudging off to his room after the original strike, they would have called 911 and JB may have survived.

The only way I can make sense of the strangling, is if she wasn't actually strangled in an attempt kill her but to move her.

I'd always thought Burke was responsible until I saw his interview with Dr Phil and another child psychologist. If he did it, he must have blocked it out. imo.
 

ep2018

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I'd always thought Burke was responsible until I saw his interview with Dr Phil and another child psychologist. If he did it, he must have blocked it out. imo.
I havent rewatched the Dr Phil interview in a couple years but I remember watching it when it first came out and thinking it made me more sure that Burke did it. He came across as very nervous and guilty imo. I dont think he killed her on purpose, but his childish actions to cover it up killed her.
 

Kurve

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I havent rewatched the Dr Phil interview in a couple years but I remember watching it when it first came out and thinking it made me more sure that Burke did it. He came across as very nervous and guilty imo. I dont think he killed her on purpose, but his childish actions to cover it up killed her.

IMO he's going to be a bit of a nervous mess for the rest of his life. He hasn't been in any trouble growing into adulthood which is kind of astonishing considering the trauma of his childhood and losing not just his sister to murder where fingers were being pointed at him but his mum as well.

Still, I like your theory better than the one in my head.
 

Kurve

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This new pod that was slow to get to it even if John Ramsey and his son from his first marriage make an appearance. They're starting to go through the whittled down suspect list Lou Smit left before he died so it's a bit more interesting, there's 22 names on it.

There's a theory of two intruders which I'd never heard before.

 

ep2018

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I remember reading that the house was full of 'My son is not normal', 'My son is violent', 'Troubled child help' etc books in the household, perhaps the parents know Burke was a troubled child and were obviously devastated but not completely surprised that he was responsible (if he was)?
 

ep2018

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Also what do we make of the hidden suitcase found in the house, which contained a semen stained child's quilt (when DNA tested it matched John Ramsey's eldest son from a previous marriage) and several children's books?
 

Kurve

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Also what do we make of the hidden suitcase found in the house, which contained a semen stained child's quilt (when DNA tested it matched John Ramsey's eldest son from a previous marriage) and several children's books?

I'd read there were some curious books in their house. Some understanding of why parents might cover for one of their kids but I can't reconcile both of them setting up such a horrible scene using a garrotte with fairly sophisticated knots and ties. Would you even be capable of not just thinking of something like that but then subjecting your child's body to further violations? It's just .. I can't see it but then I still get shocked at what people can do.

I didn't see that garrotte until fairly recently and really baulked at it.

They were both smart enough I think to understand that Burke at 9yo, if an accident through rough play that they probably with their money and contacts, almost zero consequence.
 

FR0GGY

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I just can’t see anyone going to that length to cover up for their other child.
 

ep2018

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I just can’t see anyone going to that length to cover up for their other child.
I get you but the mother was only recently re-diagnosed with cancer, and the father had a huge reputation that he couldn't afford to lose.

The mother's thought process: I might die soon, I just lost a daughter and I might lose my son to the psychiatric/legal system, I need to protect him.

The father's thought process: If the world finds out my son killed my daughter, my reputation is ruined. I need to protect him.
 

ep2018

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They were both smart enough I think to understand that Burke at 9yo, if an accident through rough play that they probably with their money and contacts, almost zero consequence.
This may be true and I suspect this may have happened had Burke killed her outright with the blow to the head and then ran to get his parents straight away, but he made a bad situation worse by (I suspect) using the garrotte to drag her down to the basement. Inadvertently he made a bad situation look so much worse, the parents had no choice.
 

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ep2018

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Something that hasn't been touched upon in this thread and may have been mentioned in a book I read about the case but I also agreed with, was the empty suitcase they found right next to her body. Some have used this suitcase to prove intruder as they believed the suitcase would allow said intruder to reach the basement window to escape. However my theory: I believe the parents intended to hide their daughter's body in the suitcase and move her to a secondary location to complete their coverup however when it actually came time for them to do so neither could do it, I mean how could you expect them to? To callously dispose of their own flesh and blood in a dispicable manner? It was far beyond them even for a pair of parents who were willing to disguise the truth to save their son. So they couldn't do so. And she was left there on the floor of the basement, covered by a sheet instead.
 

Kurve

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Something that hasn't been touched upon in this thread and may have been mentioned in a book I read about the case but I also agreed with, was the empty suitcase they found right next to her body. Some have used this suitcase to prove intruder as they believed the suitcase would allow said intruder to reach the basement window to escape. However my theory: I believe the parents intended to hide their daughter's body in the suitcase and move her to a secondary location to complete their coverup however when it actually came time for them to do so neither could do it, I mean how could you expect them to? To callously dispose of their own flesh and blood in a dispicable manner? It was far beyond them even for a pair of parents who were willing to disguise the truth to save their son. So they couldn't do so. And she was left there on the floor of the basement, covered by a sheet instead.

The male stranger DNA? That same DNA was on her underwear, the longjohns she was wearing over the top and under her fingernails. No match so far. I'm a bit suspicious of it though because I'd have thought that through open source genealogy sites geneticists would have found a connection already.
 

ep2018

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The male stranger DNA? That same DNA was on her underwear, the longjohns she was wearing over the top and under her fingernails. No match so far. I'm a bit suspicious of it though because I'd have thought that through open source genealogy sites geneticists would have found a connection already.
Years ago I believed the unknown male DNA was of a house guest that dropped a hair on the carpet which was picked up on Jonbenet's body as her brother dragged her on the carpet on the way to the basement. However a number of publications since then have brought up a plausible theory that a worker who had made the clothes she was wearing at the time may have accidentally left some DNA, which was found during the investigation.
 

ep2018

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I wasnt aware she had DNA under her fingernails. That throws a spanner in the works of my theory.
 

FR0GGY

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I wasnt aware she had DNA under her fingernails. That throws a spanner in the works of my theory.
If you listen to the true crime garage podcast they tee off on the analyst that clipped her finger nails for using the same pair of clippers to do all nails instead of using a fresh one for each nail.
 

Kurve

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However a number of publications since then have brought up a plausible theory that a worker who had made the clothes she was wearing at the time may have accidentally left some DNA, which was found during the investigation.

Always wash new undies before you wear them :oops:

Bit suss on that theory as well though because her underwear was made in China and I THINK geneticists would have come close enough to calling it and excluding as involved in the murder. DNA will pin ethnicity and phenotyping can produce an image. That same DNA wouldn't be under her nails or likely to be on the top of her long johns.
 

Kurve

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My gut on this (with some logic) would have said, look for a teenager, private school education, bit nerdy and unremarkable. Not many friends between about 15yo and 18 or 19yo and he lives close. Probably close enough to see the lights going on and off in the upper floors of the house. Knows when they're away on holidays and when they're due back. He was likely going in and out of that house as an intruder and as he pleased for some time rifling through Patsy's drawers, flicking through paperwork and they wouldn't have noticed it, that house was really untidy. He might have even jagged keys to the external doors over time.

That's my two cents. ;)
 

Kurve

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If you listen to the true crime garage podcast they tee off on the analyst that clipped her finger nails for using the same pair of clippers to do all nails instead of using a fresh one for each nail.

This new pod is getting real interesting, there's information coming out I've never heard before. For one, there was a slashed and defaced magazine picture of John Ramsey investigators found in the house.
 

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I don't think Burke dragged JBR around nor do I think he had the strength to break the paintbrush or knew how to make a garotte. If BR wanted to move JBR he would have just picked her up or dragged her by the arms. Remember JBR's hands were loosely tied together too and BR wouldnt have thought of doing that to stage the murder. Regarding the rope around JBR's neck, have u seen this? https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JGVIFtmnjus/WFcUs5kCabI/AAAAAAAArdY/vUGhHrzB6Gwz5XmG1k7MJgzZXGHJle2kgCLcB/s640/JBR+string+comparison+%282%29.jpg
 

Kurve

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I don't think Burke dragged JBR around nor do I think he had the strength to break the paintbrush or knew how to make a garotte. If BR wanted to move JBR he would have just picked her up or dragged her by the arms. Remember JBR's hands were loosely tied together too and BR wouldnt have thought of doing that to stage the murder. Regarding the rope around JBR's neck, have u seen this? https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JGVIFtmnjus/WFcUs5kCabI/AAAAAAAArdY/vUGhHrzB6Gwz5XmG1k7MJgzZXGHJle2kgCLcB/s640/JBR+string+comparison+%282%29.jpg

That's creepy ..
 

Kurve

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Remember JBR got an American Doll for Christmas and the cops couldn't find anymore rope in the house like the rope around JBR's neck.

Did they find the American Doll in the house and the rope was missing?
 

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