Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Particularly education in women. But that also inversely correlates to poverty.
Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Are poor women breeding because they're dumb or they want kids?
An alternate theory is educated women have more wealth and options so don't want the sacrifices associated with a family. Especially if they can't find a mate as you posted above.
When discussing welfare poor mums there is a myth that if these women stopped having kids they would end up educated and rich. Not necessarily the case
 

eastfreo75

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Not in the degrees that pay the big money, generally speaking. Plus women have a degree too.

There is actually a problem for women finding a suitable man when they are already so capable and independent, there is an argument to be made that they still want their man to be achieving higher than them and those that don't want that are projecting a resentment and don't respect men in the first place.
Women very rarely partner “down”.

Their a large number of very capable and successful single women because they find hard to find somebody equal or higher status wise than themselves (Man drought).

Men generally can partner down, especially if the female is hot.

Therefore, a successful, educated and capable man won’t have issues finding a partner.

The unsuccessful, uneducated and low ability men will find it almost impossible to find a partner.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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I have some connection to the field and people lose their entire grip on the reality of their own good fortune and potential for happiness over the most trivial and self inflicted, but outwardly projecting of blame, events in their lives.

Facing the reality of losing your partner in life is facing the future without a world in it.

I can see your perspective when I pivot it into something like a reformed drug addict telling people to just say no, most of those being spoken to were stronger than that person was already and aren't a problem but to the rest that person is speaking from a place where they really know the colour of the black walls and can relate it to you in a known and real way.

I reject your position that a professional in the psychology field would handle personal trauma better, most of the people I've seen are in the field to understand what is wrong with them in the first place and are vulnerable people, people oriented people and less objective things oriented people. So people issues gets them right in the soft parts.
If the drug addict is genuine they would have far more understanding of avoiding pitfalls and overcoming the addiction then a Maude Flanders type who may mean well but just doesn't have the depth of understanding
 

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eastfreo75

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Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Are poor women breeding because they're dumb or they want kids?
An alternate theory is educated women have more wealth and options so don't want the sacrifices associated with a family. Especially if they can't find a mate as you posted above.
When discussing welfare poor mums there is a myth that if these women stopped having kids they would end up educated and rich. Not necessarily the case
It’s a complex mix for sure.

In the developing nations, increasing education for women has a strong correlation and causation for increasing wealth.

Better education increases better health outcomes, better family planning and therefore better economic outcomes.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Women very rarely partner “down”.

Their a large number of very capable and successful single women because they find hard to find somebody equal or higher status wise than themselves (Man drought).

Men generally can partner down, especially if the female is hot.

Therefore, a successful, educated and capable man won’t have issues finding a partner.

The unsuccessful, uneducated and low ability men will find it almost impossible to find a partner.
Depends what you mean. Women partner up down and sideways all the time. It is basically attraction which has no intellectual element.
If you're arguing who women settle with and marry then yep I'd agree.
Also part of a point Peterson made. Impossible to know what each individual likes but look at the data and your own antecdotal observations and it's hard to argue different
 

FireKrakouer

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It’s a complex mix for sure.

In the developing nations, increasing education for women has a strong correlation and causation for increasing wealth.

Better education increases better health outcomes, better family planning and therefore better economic outcomes.
We still outsource slavery to Chinese factory workers and Indian uber drivers. If we maintained a 2:2 replacement rate in the west there would be no reason for a caste system
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Not in the degrees that pay the big money, generally speaking. Plus women have a degree too.

There is actually a problem for women finding a suitable man when they are already so capable and independent, there is an argument to be made that they still want their man to be achieving higher than them and those that don't want that are projecting a resentment and don't respect men in the first place.
I honestly think there is more to it. A woman can't assess a man's wealth (I know there's more to it but I'll simplify) unless she has his bank details not a man assess fertility (again simplistic) unless medical details.
So what both genders do is look for traits. Attractions are established long before any of the above.
Take the under 25 simp stuff that's new. Basically it's the friend zone or your a nice guy but revisited.
But on a deeper level I think what women are doing is assessing personality traits that will earn wealth in the future (no one under 25 has $$$$ unless in rare circumstances). And it does take a certain personality which a lot don't have hence the lack of luck for many.
 

eastfreo75

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Depends what you mean. Women partner up down and sideways all the time. It is basically attraction which has no intellectual element.
If you're arguing who women settle with and marry then yep I'd agree.
Also part of a point Peterson made. Impossible to know what each individual likes but look at the data and your own antecdotal observations and it's hard to argue different
Women are very attracted to intelligent.

Is that the only element in attraction? No.

You ask most women what they want in man.

Women want.
1. Man that is tall
2. Well groomed
3. Calm in a crisis
4. Well educated
5. Status of job
6. Ability to protect
7. Financially secure
8. Good sense of humour- that be an indicator of intelligent
9. Well dressed
10. Nice car
11. Not needy - emotionally independent
12. Hot body - that will different
13. Risk taker
14. Socially liked by a number of people including men and women.
 

eastfreo75

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I honestly think there is more to it. A woman can't assess a man's wealth (I know there's more to it but I'll simplify) unless she has his bank details not a man assess fertility (again simplistic) unless medical details.
So what both genders do is look for traits. Attractions are established long before any of the above.
Take the under 25 simp stuff that's new. Basically it's the friend zone or your a nice guy but revisited.
But on a deeper level I think what women are doing is assessing personality traits that will earn wealth in the future (no one under 25 has $$$$ unless in rare circumstances). And it does take a certain personality which a lot don't have hence the lack of luck for many.
Potential to earn very much comes into it.

A poor student studying medicine is considered a good catch.

A good Hip to Waist ratio in women is very attracted to men.

In regards to physical attraction, the subconscious works out the DNA match. That’s why beauty is the eye of the beholder.
 

Taylor

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Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Are poor women breeding because they're dumb or they want kids?
An alternate theory is educated women have more wealth and options so don't want the sacrifices associated with a family. Especially if they can't find a mate as you posted above.
When discussing welfare poor mums there is a myth that if these women stopped having kids they would end up educated and rich. Not necessarily the case
I believe the direct correlation is between educating girls and general social standard of living increasing and that then results in the lower birthrates.
 

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Taylor

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I honestly think there is more to it. A woman can't assess a man's wealth (I know there's more to it but I'll simplify) unless she has his bank details not a man assess fertility (again simplistic) unless medical details.
So what both genders do is look for traits. Attractions are established long before any of the above.
Take the under 25 simp stuff that's new. Basically it's the friend zone or your a nice guy but revisited.
But on a deeper level I think what women are doing is assessing personality traits that will earn wealth in the future (no one under 25 has $$$$ unless in rare circumstances). And it does take a certain personality which a lot don't have hence the lack of luck for many.
I think women are used to getting attention but the men who they want the attention from don't have time for women who they see as being a leach on their results that will take half their achievement if it doesn't work out. Especially when there is so an abundance of cheap and easy sex for men out there.

The best way to get high quality men is for women to demand high quality men for sexual partners. That doesn't mean marriage first, but that used to do. Now you're expected to find out if you're sexually compatible early in the dance.

The little scam in it all is that women were sold the lie that they could have everything, but what really happened was we were conned into giving up the most valuable thing we have to a random man, sex, for cheap. He got exactly what he always wanted, we think we got what we wanted and eventually we put one and one together and realise that women in their teens and twenties train men on how to behave to have sex.

We've trained them to not worry about commitment and given away all the physical benefits of them committing up front.

We've absolutely crashed the price of sex and we were the ones holding all the stock.
 

Taylor

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Thé identitarians and socialists are overwehlmingly art students but those doing medical degrees, commerce, stem and engineering are mostly classical liberals. I.e still lefties even if the hard core lefties pretend they aren’t. They tend to supoort climate action, anti discrimination policies, are atheists or only weakly follow religion and believe in human rights and freeing the refugees. Where they are more mixed between the left and right is on economic policy. but most still believe in the concept of the welfare state. Just the degree of welfare that differs. Most believe in free trade and globalisation and foreign aid and support immigration.
That person you're describing, the social liberal and economic conservative is a right winger now.
 

Snake_Baker

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The little scam in it all is that women were sold the lie that they could have everything.
You don't think this is delusional? I also believe this is an intrinsic expectation, that isn't "sold" to women at all.

I do acknowledge the strategic weaponisation of sex by women though.

We've absolutely crashed the price of sex and we were the ones holding all the stock.
The sexual revolution & women's liberation have had their fallout.
 

Snake_Baker

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Snake_Baker

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Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Are poor women breeding because they're dumb or they want kids?
An alternate theory is educated women have more wealth and options so don't want the sacrifices associated with a family. Especially if they can't find a mate as you posted above.
When discussing welfare poor mums there is a myth that if these women stopped having kids they would end up educated and rich. Not necessarily the case
A rise in the standard of living & population decline is a recognized phenomena across the board.

I say it's a good thing too.

When discussing welfare poor mums there is a myth that if these women stopped having kids they would end up educated and rich. Not necessarily the case
You weren't aware that all of women's problems were a result of "the patriarchy"? Y'know, the thing that built civilization as we know it?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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I think women are used to getting attention but the men who they want the attention from don't have time for women who they see as being a leach on their results that will take half their achievement if it doesn't work out. Especially when there is so an abundance of cheap and easy sex for men out there.

The best way to get high quality men is for women to demand high quality men for sexual partners. That doesn't mean marriage first, but that used to do. Now you're expected to find out if you're sexually compatible early in the dance.

The little scam in it all is that women were sold the lie that they could have everything, but what really happened was we were conned into giving up the most valuable thing we have to a random man, sex, for cheap. He got exactly what he always wanted, we think we got what we wanted and eventually we put one and one together and realise that women in their teens and twenties train men on how to behave to have sex.

We've trained them to not worry about commitment and given away all the physical benefits of them committing up front.

We've absolutely crashed the price of sex and we were the ones holding all the stock.
Interesting how you describe the price of sex. To spite all the openness around it and availability you are saying it is something women sell to men and there is a price attached.
To use economic terms the cheap and easy sex is a market correction. Tinder hook up culture escorts etc are a market correction to prevent a monopoly.
Your first point is relatively close to what Peterson says. In that all the attention women want is from a small pool of men leaving the others in the cold. A solution he says is to have monogamy as a social standard to prevent mass disenfranchisement.
Interesting to read a woman's point of view. In that at the minute it is common for both sexes to be upset but for different reasons. But that's been the case for years.
It will continue to evolve.
 

Snake_Baker

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Interesting how you describe the price of sex. To spite all the openness around it and availability you are saying it is something women sell to men and there is a price attached.
Have you had a sheltered existence mate? :D

These behaviors are based upon millennia of evolution.

Men: Hunt, build & seed.
Women: Engineer the social factors required to ensure the most successful pathway for their offspring (hypergamy).

Too many people tend to over-romanticise the realities pertaining to both sexes.
 
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Norm Smith Medallist
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Have you had a sheltered existence mate? :D
Not at all. The poster claims there is a price attached (look who women are attracted to most men know there is a hierarchy of sorts by 12). Just find it odd then woman are confused there are now cheap and easy options. Of course there are. That's evolution at work.
Like if lobster costs $80 a kg and has a shitload of customers the fish n chip Shop is going to sell for a cheaper option.
A woman who wants attention will make it easier and offer more than her competition.
If not there is Tinder where attention is rife.
Either way not sure what the solution is. We tried the nuclear family and relationships governed by Christianity which had it's faults. Not sure the next step. Or even if all this is a problem.
 

Snake_Baker

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Not at all. The poster claims there is a price attached (look who women are attracted to most men know there is a hierarchy of sorts by 12). Just find it odd then woman are confused there are now cheap and easy options. Of course there are. That's evolution at work.
Like if lobster costs $80 a kg and has a shitload of customers the fish n chip Shop is going to sell for a cheaper option.
Taylor is a good poster calling things as they are. Women are much more strategic about sex in comparison to the highly sexually impulsive males. In fact, I would go so far as to say they were generally much more strategic in relationships, period. It's a fundamental trait in their successful evolutionary behavior. This price has to be paid in order to secure the nest.

My take is that people would understand each other a lot better if they started looking at themselves as just another highly sophisticated animal with inherent behavioral traits, because that's just a fact.
 

Seeds

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That person you're describing, the social liberal and economic conservative is a right winger now.
What we label classical liberals is just semantics.

they are sure repulsed by trump though. Even more than the socialists who deep down kind of like him. See the record numbers of university educated people voting democrats
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Taylor is a good poster calling things as they are. Women are much more strategic about sex in comparison to the highly sexually impulsive males. In fact, I would go so far as to say they were generally much more strategic in relationships, period. It's a fundamental trait in their successful evolutionary behavior. This price has to be paid in order to secure the nest.

My take is that people would understand each other a lot better if they started looking at themselves as just another highly sophisticated animal with inherent behavioral traits, because that's just a fact.
This is true but the whole discussion is from a academic perspective. People are a lot more complex and driven by subconscious traits hormone mood and perceptions.
Also by how they're perceived.
What's thee saying the greatest lies we tell are those we tell ourselves. A lot of people men and women just don't understand themselves and what drives them
 

eastfreo75

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This is true but the whole discussion is from a academic perspective. People are a lot more complex and driven by subconscious traits hormone mood and perceptions.
Also by how they're perceived.
What's thee saying the greatest lies we tell are those we tell ourselves. A lot of people men and women just don't understand themselves and what drives them
The brain devotes more energy into justification of a decision than making it.

The subconscious have more influence than we realise.

In hindsight, sometimes we can see under the table motivations.

Getting back to partner selection.

With all the talk about women wanting a sensitive and in touch with the feelings man goes against the hard wiring of the subconscious.

Women really want subconsciously is a man who is strong, capable and high status.
 

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