Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

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blackcat

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One could argue it is not a conflation, and it was not my intent to put it that way. Secondly either either how one perceives his language (or perceived internet hyperbole as you put it), to me, in that video the language was pretty clear and simple.
It was much more nuanced than I (blackcat) annunciated

(i)
Prof. Peterson turned up w.i.l.l.i.n.g.l.y to a fight (was he provoking opposition)

(ii)
PP knows the zeitgeist has moved the needle

(iii)
PP whippet smart (therefore knows) has other options to receive the alternate-political position rather than provoke

(iv)
BBC & CanuckBroadcastingCorp knew they could be hosts for media storm

(v)
PP matched up with the most established BBC and Channel4 journalists , why watch UFC ?
 

TheWoodenSlug

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In a video discussing some psychological study he said supported his points, cannot remember what the points were, or what the study was, he said 'the study was not done by some right wing psychologists, because all the right wing psychologists there are, are in this room' ie, him.
I'd be curious to see that. I've never heard him say that he's "of the right" or even really lean in hard on electoral politics in a way that would make that case.


Just past the 51 minute mark.
 

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Sweet Jesus

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Just past the 51 minute mark.
I'm not sure he's saying he is a RWer generally. He makes that comment after discussing one very particular point about male-female differences across the board in different countries, and I think it's probably more a comment about the expectations of psychologists with regard to that data. He's saying he's an outlier in that regard. I'm not sure it's a statement that he is RW generally or "of the right". I guess he has a view on that particular point - about male-female differences across the board in different countries - that could be described as traditional or conservative in the sense that he rejects the claim that these differences are purely socially constructed.
 

Seeds

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When we look up cognitive dissonance in the dictionary will we continue to look at the group of alien cultists who doubled down in their belief of aliens coming after the aliens didnt come or will we now read about jordan peterson worshippers who doubled down on their belief that peterson was the gospal on how to live despite him suffering an extreme mental breakdown and coming extremely close to killing himself Only a year after writing a self help book.

this is the exact definition of cognitive dissonance.
 

blackcat

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Why are men's tasks worth more?
that's a false premise , a good-faith position will acknowledge the nuances within , half a century of equal pay legislation , and one sex is indeed penalised for taking time-out of the workforce to carry a baby to birth , I think your true riposte should be on father's who fertilise their partner to account for half the obligation inherent , again child-support and alimony is only part of cost , but the cost that is most easily quantified by receipts and expenses
 

blackcat

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Why are men's tasks worth more?
specific answer is , when the capitalist economy was bedding down , it compensated the workforce for the revenue generated , professions where women prevailed , teaching and childcare were not handsomely compensated ,

The lag inherent in the system has been ameliorated but difference persists , see: Sweden for example

what we conflate are political zeitgeist for change
 

Gough

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that's a false premise , a good-faith position will acknowledge the nuances within , half a century of equal pay legislation , and one sex is indeed penalised for taking time-out of the workforce to carry a baby to birth , I think your true riposte should be on father's who fertilise their partner to account for half the obligation inherent , again child-support and alimony is only part of cost , but the cost that is most easily quantified by receipts and expenses
Dud dads are a fact of life always have been, the idea that it's responsible for emasculating and criminalising generations of young men is a bit weird for mine. It also seems like a man's idea too, we love to make much of our own self importance.
 

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blackcat

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Dud dads are a fact of life always have been, the idea that it's responsible for emasculating and criminalising generations of young men is a bit weird for mine. It also seems like a man's idea too, we love to make much of our own self importance.
baked in to the system , putative freedoms occur downside transactional costs , cost borne by sex with verdant partner may be gravest , a Darwinian handcuff

*or avail oneself with prophylaxis
 

Chief

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I think your true riposte should be on father's who fertilise their partner to account for half the obligation inherent , again child-support and alimony is only part of cost , but the cost that is most easily quantified by receipts and expenses
Then I’d say any father should be legally required to pay half their wage and benefits directly to the mother while she is off work for childbirth and parenting. Includes superannuation and the like.

Then we’d see a hell of a lot of action on equal pay.

But of course this neglects studies that find there is still a gender pay gap when you take into account all of these factors.
 

blackcat

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But of course this neglects studies that find there is still a gender pay gap when you take into account all of these factors.
but not when account for multivariate analysis , under 30 the aggregate women out-compete men , earn more in aggregate , but we won't discuss this point , just like Asian discrimination at Harvard selection process , nb. I am NOT claiming anyone should deny their due talent , and sacrifice their earning , fatherhood/parental rights and responsibilities OTOH, nb both sees are able to access prophylactic and birth control , it is relatively simple not to bring a kid into the world , but the men who impregnate women should borne equal cost
 

blackcat

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Chief I think it is a false claim that men are for advantage and seeking win at expense of women ... no r.e.a.s.o.n.a.b.l.e person thinks any deserves different compensation for the same gig , all corporations have different roles with respective salary tiers , but equal pay for the same role has been in existence well preceding the Kelty Keating Hawke ACTU accords , but as labour employment legislation advanced to match are more complex economy layers were added , but the antecedence is decades before those ACTU accords in the 80s , is not the current head of Macquarie a woman but see me cherry-picking , one case does not a population sample make , until women chooses roles as high performers in those industries like economics banking and finance there will be aggregate divides , but you compel them to join Babcock&Brown or Macquarie...
nb either one, one of Cannon-Brooks or Farquar from Atlassian their wife founded her own hedge-fund in Sydney
 

Chief

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It's been a long time since I did economics so I'll leave that up in the air.

But women have been choosing those roles in greater numbers since their options were expanded from "be a teacher until you get pregnant then get the sack".
 

FireKrakouer

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Look at the Nordic study, the majority of women favor traditional "female careers" even when given every opportunity and encouragement to enter STEM and other fields. From memory it's 20:1 females favoring nursing to engineering, and the opposite for males.

It isn't a grand conspiracy, it's biology. Industries like childcare are difficult because if they aren't affordable (low staff pay) then people won't use the service, resulting in more parents (mostly mothers) staying at home with the kids instead of working while kids are at daycare. The anecdotes I hear from nurses I know is that their pay is not bad in Aus due to having a decent union, but they should still get more given the skill, stress and sometimes danger involved.
 

blackcat

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Look at the Nordic study, the majority of women favor traditional "female careers" even when given every opportunity and encouragement to enter STEM and other fields. From memory it's 20:1 females favoring nursing to engineering, and the opposite for males.

It isn't a grand conspiracy, it's biology. Industries like childcare are difficult because if they aren't affordable (low staff pay) then people won't use the service, resulting in more parents (mostly mothers) staying at home with the kids instead of working while kids are at daycare. The anecdotes I hear from nurses I know is that their pay is not bad in Aus due to having a decent union, but they should still get more given the skill, stress and sometimes danger involved.
the sexes are unison , a complement

a wise head would ask cui bono in whose interests is it to gin up the culture wars , I would hesitate to say the left's attempt to indoctrinate youth has borne fruit because unions and Labor saw futility with their base in 90's and naughties... KRudd was neo-lib in a different garb , like Clinton's, like Blair , like Obama , same ol same ol
 
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blackcat

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that's a false premise , a good-faith position will acknowledge the nuances within , half a century of equal pay legislation , and one sex is indeed penalised for taking time-out of the workforce to carry a baby to birth , I think your true riposte should be on father's who fertilise their partner to account for half the obligation inherent , again child-support and alimony is only part of cost , but the cost that is most easily quantified by receipts and expenses
corollary- what are the unrecorded benefits of having children , because it is by many ways the females/female instinct to pursue invitro fertilisation , why would that be when it is so prohibitive in economic terms
 

Sweet Jesus

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When we look up cognitive dissonance in the dictionary will we continue to look at the group of alien cultists who doubled down in their belief of aliens coming after the aliens didnt come or will we now read about jordan peterson worshippers who doubled down on their belief that peterson was the gospal on how to live despite him suffering an extreme mental breakdown and coming extremely close to killing himself Only a year after writing a self help book.

this is the exact definition of cognitive dissonance.
Now tell us how discriminating against gay people is "racism". Because words are "exchangeable".
 

Sweet Jesus

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Why are men's tasks worth more?
They're not "men's tasks". But some occupations are better paid than others, and it may be the case that men gravitate to these higher-paid jobs more than women.

If women are more likely to pursue jobs that pay less, you can't complain that "OMG women are paid less than men!"

Some jobs are paid less than others. Your doctor gets paid more than the guy who collects your bins. Do you have a problem with that?
 

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