Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

EasternTiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 15, 2007
7,914
11,539
Socialist Leper Colony
AFL Club
Richmond
The professor also warned about people claiming to have all the answers, and about low-resolution problem solving which you are engaging in right now by deifying him.
Point me in the right direction of 'low resolution problem solving.'

I hope you're not one of these Joe 'High level problem solving with dire physical consequences' Rogan kind of guys.
 

fleabitten

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 16, 2012
5,854
10,715
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Portland Trailblazers
So your notion of reasonable is to attack the author! A very accomplished one who academic and highly regarded lawyer Josh Bornstein regards as “one of the best writers”, and doing so without showing one iota of rigour. Different definition of reasonable to mine but one that would no doubt appeal to the Peterson flock.

What?

You said ShanDog was like a religious cultist and couldn't accept criticism of JP. That's not at all how it looks to anyone actually reading the conversations.
 
Aug 21, 2016
15,611
24,574
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham
Even socialists would agree in the notion of a hierarchy of competence. But these rusted on Peterson fans would argue these hierarchies are permanent, unchanging. Im sure you can see the root of an undemocratic politics embedded in this.

You are arguing a straw man view using 'Peterson fans'. Peterson speaks for equal opportunity, not hierarchies that are permanent, and most definitely not something at the root of an undemocratic politics.

And again, you have made disparaging remarks about people 'making arguments on a football forum'. You seem to spend your life making arguments on a football forum so I don't get this line of attack.
 
Sep 21, 2004
46,417
52,570
AFL Club
GWS
You are arguing a straw man view using 'Peterson fans'. Peterson speaks for equal opportunity, not hierarchies that are permanent, and most definitely not something at the root of an undemocratic politics.
I made it quite clear I was talking about a minority of Peterson fans.

Just like I made it clear I was asking whether he had an undemocratic politics, not stating it an opinion. I asked Dog because he's read more of him than I have.
 
Feb 24, 2013
45,365
37,740
The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
Do you even want to be as smart as JP? With intellect comes much responsibility.

You struggle to keep social misfits like kid viscous in line.

How would you go in interviews, and facing mass hostility?

LOL.....Good one.

Your tongue has been stuck in you cheek for the last 3 pages.
 
Aug 12, 2012
21,060
40,106
sv_cheats 1
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Edmonton Oilers
Do you even want to be as smart as JP? With intellect comes much responsibility.

You struggle to keep social misfits like kid viscous in line.

How would you go in interviews, and facing mass hostility?
See, all this puts me in a tricky situation. I could point out that you don't me at all, and produce some information about myself that makes you look very foolish, but would likely be seen as a bit hubristic and maybe even arrogant.

Instead, I'll just prove you wrong with action. Come back in two weeks when your attitude is better and you aren't derailing genuine discussion.
 
Aug 21, 2016
15,611
24,574
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham
I made it quite clear I was talking about a minority of Peterson fans.

Just like I made it clear I was asking whether he had an undemocratic politics, not stating it an opinion. I asked Dog because he's read more of him than I have.

You said 'Im sure you can see the root of an undemocratic politics embedded in this'. That's not a question based on an ignorance of Peterson's views. It's a statement based on your view that 'these rusted on Peterson fans would argue these hierarchies are permanent, unchanging'.
 
Sep 21, 2004
46,417
52,570
AFL Club
GWS
You said 'Im sure you can see the root of an undemocratic politics embedded in this'. That's not a question based on an ignorance of Peterson's views. It's a statement based on your view that 'these rusted on Peterson fans would argue these hierarchies are permanent, unchanging'.
Yes, there is unquestionably a stench of undemocratic politics among the minority of Peterson fans my question was alluding to.

I was asking if that ran through Peterson's actual views.
 
Maps of Meaning showed has no holes.

You actually need to read some of his stuff before you criticise. If you haven't read any of his material, then why do you care what he has to say?

He shows up in every other podcast. Can’t avoid him at the moment. This will pass, like Milo has.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Aug 21, 2016
15,611
24,574
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham
Yes, there is unquestionably a stench of undemocratic politics among the minority of Peterson fans my question was alluding to.

I was asking if that ran through Peterson's actual views.

Like I said you are using this purported view of the minority of Peterson fans as a straw man. The stench is yours.

Justify whatever you feel you need to by reference to Peterson's quoted views or acknowledge your ignorance and withdraw
 
Apr 24, 2013
81,024
153,170
Arden Street Hill
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Essendon Lawn Bowls Club
Jordan Peterson’s Evidence-Based Endeavor

by Jonathan N. Stea

It is well known that clinical psychologist, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, has been portrayed in the media as a polarizing figure: bigoted alt-right charlatan on the one hand, superordinate fatherly free-speech protector on the other hand. The former portrayal reflects downright ignorance and the latter is optimistic. Commentary on his clinical psychological acumen is conspicuously absent. His detractors are keen to point out his politics, eccentricities, and volatility, as if political pigeon-holing and ad hominem attacks weaken the veracity of his claims. This is inaccurate.

I know because I am a former psychology student of Jordan Peterson at the University of Toronto; he was my undergraduate thesis supervisor. I have a master’s of science degree and a doctorate degree in clinical psychology from the University of Calgary. I am a registered and practicing clinical psychologist in Calgary, AB, Canada. I provide evidence-based treatment to individuals with concurrent mental health and addictive disorders in a specialty outpatient hospital clinic. I have published many peer-reviewed scientific research papers on topics related to addiction and mental health. What Jordan Peterson is preaching is, in fact, based in solid scientific principles for behavior change. He has been accused of cherry-picking findings from multiple disciplines and offering conjecture in areas outside of his expertise. Instead, Peterson should rightfully be lauded for embodying the scientific spirit. He aims to draw his conclusions based on a scientific principle called consilience of findings, which was popularized by E. O. Wilson in his 1998 book Consilience: The Unity of Knowledge. This means that Peterson aims to link facts and principles across disciplines of study to help ground his claims in evidence. It is not an easy feat for anybody to pursue, especially academics, who are highly, albeit narrowly, specialized in their respective fields.

The field of clinical psychology, however, is Peterson’s territory. While it is obvious to people familiar with his work that Peterson revivifies and makes accessible a multitude of esoteric insights derived from depth psychology and philosophy, it is perhaps less obvious that his messages parallel those to be found in the repertoire of your local evidence-based, practicing clinical psychologist. For example, Peterson’s detailing and promotion of hero mythology can be thought of as the original, romanticized, and richer version of the colder, clinical application of exposure-based treatments that are derived from cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT)—one of the most evidence-based psychological treatments that we have for a myriad of presenting problems, including depressive, anxiety, and addictive disorders.

Peterson’s thorough delineations and insistence on cleaning your room, speaking the truth, and exploring meaningful pursuits capture the essence of approaches that draw from motivational interviewing (MI) and acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT)—evidence-based approaches designed to elicit self-change processes directed towards congruency between a person’s values and their behaviors. His online writing program, selfauthoring.com, harnesses the salutary effects of the expressive writing literature. In particular, the future authoring suite is an evidence-based intervention per se for improving academic performance; the suite facilitates goal setting and is consistent with behavioral activation approaches (i.e., a sub-therapy of CBT) that help people tackle procrastination and enhance their confidence. It is in this sense—that the principles he speaks to mirror those found in the evidence-based clinical psychological literature—that I contend Peterson is providing evidence-based self-help material for the masses. It is no wonder, then, that he has amassed such a substantial following despite his nay-sayers. The potential benefits from understanding and consuming his material can approximate what one can glean from successful psychotherapy. Whether a person wants to mitigate mental health concerns or improve their quality of life, self-help materials can be thought of as the lowest rung on the ladder in a stepped-care model of mental health treatment. Peterson provides these self-help materials in many forms, including his online lectures, selfauthoring.com online program, and his most recent book, 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. So, you might not like the man, but you can’t knock his clinical psychological expertise.
 
Back