Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

[Chief]

This is true but it need not necessarily be true.
I’m a idealistic about education and believe with dedicated effort and honest self reflection even a mediocre mind can be elevated to something approaching genius.

I also believe the accessibility of the internet and you tube to classic books, commentaries and lectures enable anyone with a modicum of sustained effort applied correctly and intently for a single year - to make themselves both very employable and both verbally and in writing acheive standards that will run rings around all but the most extraordinary BA graduate.

And this at least is a positive

This is what I'd call Dunning-Kruger territory.

 

[Contra Mundum]

People are also exaggerating what you have to write in humanities. I did a gender subject and wrote an essay on why I think multiculturalism is doomed to fail and got an A on it. Just because you feel like you need to write something doesn’t mean you do.

Fortune favours the brave.

Oh my God Hercules - don't fight the prevailing bullshit narrative with actual experience - we are all ruggedly individualist thinkers, brave heroes - fighting intellectual conformity by following strict ideological rules on the "left wing academy", armed with critiques we parrot from others

 

[Contra Mundum]

wat

I take it back, if you were to read Anthony Kenny's History of Western Philosophy by yourself you might know something about the subject. All learning is enhanced with dialogue, if you are not discussing it with other students or teachers - its harder to learn. You can't sit down with Being and Time and expect to get something out of it because of what you have seen on a Youtube video.

 

[Chief]

We have a culture where students expect to get a university degree, so there needs to be a market created for people to get that without the hardcore science or maths involved. That's where I think it's coming from.

How many people do a year then transfer to the course they wanted on an improved score?

 

[Contra Mundum]

We have a culture where students expect to get a university degree, so there needs to be a market created for people to get that without the hardcore science or maths involved. That's where I think it's coming from.

Where does that leave classical music students - they don't deserve a degree that has been offered in the West for 500 years

 

[Chief]

The transfer rate among 1st year students is close to 40%.
Interestingly the trend is to go to a course that requires a lower ATAR.

This isn't new from what I've seen since I went to uni.

 

[Chief]

The penny drops and they enrol in a degree they actually have some interest in.

I'm talking more about the student planning to improve their entrance score (whatever it is that month) by starting in a lower-demand degree and getting a good GPA to get them into the higher-demand degree. As a plan from day one, not as a course correction after an epiphany.

 

[yebiga]

There is no discipline without guidance - its the tertiary equivalent of home schooling. You only say that to denigrate Arts students and disciplines

The problem is the guide

There many better guides available now to all of us -

 

[yebiga]

This is what I'd call Dunning-Kruger territory.

That’s precisely the humAnities departments - with some exceptions

Good hey

 

[FireKrakouer]

I All learning is enhanced with dialogue

I totally agree. The concern is that only a narrow part of the spectrum of ideas is being discussed within the humanities. So this "dialogue" is quite limited.

In the US we see students literally set fire to their schools in order to avoid having a speaker with a differing opinion give a speech.

Education is not about safe spaces, it should be quite the opposite. Confronting uncomfortable ideas, not sustaining echo chambers.

 

[yebiga]

I take it back, if you were to read Anthony Kenny's History of Western Philosophy by yourself you might know something about the subject. All learning is enhanced with dialogue, if you are not discussing it with other students or teachers - its harder to learn. You can't sit down with Being and Time and expect to get something out of it because of what you have seen on a Youtube video.

Inteeesting - there is s whole lecture series - and pod casts on heideggers being and time

There are commentary books and philosophy social media sites

And then you can always talk to people too

Grab one chapter of being and time - copy it - rephrase it - read commentary and watch lectures to ensure you are not completely off tap

Rewrite it in your own words made clearer

And I suggest you will know as much as your acumen allows and who knows what that might be

 

[Contra Mundum]

I totally agree. The concern is that only a narrow part of the spectrum of ideas is being discussed within the humanities. So this "dialogue" is quite limited.

In the US we see students literally set fire to their schools in order to avoid having a speaker with a differing opinion give a speech.

Education is not about safe spaces, it should be quite the opposite. Confronting uncomfortable ideas, not sustaining echo chambers.

Sorry that is generalising bullshit you can still do a course called “Europe since Napoleon” , the world of Dante or 20th century English literature - they are taught as they always have been - women’s studies is not compulsory you know


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[Contra Mundum]

Inteeesting - there is s whole lecture series - and pod casts on heideggers being and time

There are commentary books and philosophy social media sites

And then you can always talk to people too

Grab one chapter of being and time - copy it - rephrase it - read commentary and watch lectures to ensure you are not completely off tap

Rewrite it in your own words made clearer

And I suggest you will know as much as your acumen allows and who knows what that might be

It’s a barren way to learn


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[Gough]

Sorry that is generalising bullshit you can still do a course called “Europe since Napoleon” , the world of Dante or 20th century English literature - they are taught as they always have been - women’s studies is not compulsory you know


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Better off teaching Chicago school to a bunch over privileged kids with borderline personality disorders.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Better off teaching Chicago school to a bunch over privileged kids with borderline personality disorders.

They all end up at the IPA


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[its free real estate]

I take it back, if you were to read Anthony Kenny's History of Western Philosophy by yourself you might know something about the subject. All learning is enhanced with dialogue, if you are not discussing it with other students or teachers - its harder to learn. You can't sit down with Being and Time and expect to get something out of it because of what you have seen on a Youtube video.

Why can't you discuss it on a web forum and get the same out of it?

 

[Contra Mundum]

Why can't you discuss it on a web forum and get the same out of it?

It’s not the same as a tute


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[yebiga]

It’s a barren way to learn


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

BS
It’s as close as you can get into the authors skin
You own him
His phraseology becomes part of you
It’s a demanding exercise but it could hardly be more productive

 

[FireKrakouer]

Better off teaching Chicago school to a bunch over privileged kids with borderline personality disorders.

Interesting that you take a snipe at "privileged kids with BPD". That descriptor fairly well sums up the younger generation who follow your own philosophy.

It’s not the same as a tute


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

No, it's different to a tutorial in that you risk being triggered by opposing opinions.

 

[its free real estate]

It’s not the same as a tute


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Isn’t it? Imo it’s better. More thorough criticism of your ideas, backed by references. Academia is cloistered by comparison.

The key difference is that in academia your are graded, therefore there is a skin in the game aspect. But anyone dedicated and intelligent enough should be able to learn

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

I'm talking more about the student planning to improve their entrance score (whatever it is that month) by starting in a lower-demand degree and getting a good GPA to get them into the higher-demand degree. As a plan from day one, not as a course correction after an epiphany.

That's exactly what I planned to do, but ended up dropping out altogether after a year

 

[Contra Mundum]

BS
It’s as close as you can get into the authors skin
You own him
His phraseology becomes part of you
It’s a demanding exercise but it could hardly be more productive

I am a mentor/student sort of learner. If you have to duck and parry with your lecturer then it’s much more rewarding.

I work part time at Melbourne Uni in an LLM program - the entire student body has different politics to me


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[Contra Mundum]

Isn’t it? Imo it’s better. More thorough criticism of your ideas, backed by references. Academia is cloistered by comparison.

The key difference is that in academia your are graded, therefore there is a skin in the game aspect. But anyone dedicated and intelligent enough should be able to learn

Yeh may be - I am a bit old school


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[Contra Mundum]

Interesting that you take a snipe at "privileged kids with BPD". That descriptor fairly well sums up the younger generation who follow your own philosophy.
No, it's different to a tutorial in that you risk being triggered by opposing opinions.

As I say if your learning about Renaissance poetry or the reign of Elizabeth the 1st then you are unlikley to be triggered - 98 percent is not ******* contested in a political way - stop watching Jordy and Milo videos and go and sit in the philosophy department at Melbs - it’s kids contesting ideas.


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[its free real estate]

Yeh may be - I am a bit old school


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The one thing academia offers over self-learning is structure and discipline. Which is not what most academics would see as the defining feature.