Player Watch Jordan De Goey

[Scodog10]

So it was Bucks' fault?

I believe Nathan Buckley to be a smart man (he just can't coach) who knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn't a story until Buckley put the lie out there so he definitely needs to be partly responsible for the outcome.

That's ok because it's all part of the process as long as we learnt something from it and it wasn't "we need to trade this kid".

 

[jmac70]

I believe Nathan Buckley to be a smart man who knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn't a story until Buckley put the lie out there so he definitely needs to be partly responsible for the outcome.

That's ok because it's all part of the process as long as we learnt something from it and it wasn't "we need to trade this kid".

I agree with you and recall saying something similar at the time.

Many posters disagreed.

 

[jmac70]

The poster who knows Jordan agrees with you Gimpy in terms of his punishment.......he called it ameurterish.

I don't agree but in the long run the supension will be irrelevant because De Goey and Grundy will smash it for Collingwood in the future.

He will be a gun.

It's great that we sometimes get inside mail but it can't be relied upon to form an opinion.

 

[Scodog10]

I agree with you and recall saying something similar at the time.

Many posters disagreed.

It's a multilayered issue so I can understand that from posters, but would also hope I supported your POV. I was definitely scathing of how it was handled it just isn't a simple one.

For instance it appears you supported the punishment and I did to although I don't agree that it had an effect on JDG's output. He's a high end talent and that was always going to shine through. What concerned me out of it, and still does, is that the player(s) that advised him to lie were never punished.

I consider JDG a very Swanny type footballer. Not book smart, a bit of a lad and a guy who gets by on talent plus a passion for the game. Someone like that would definitely speak to players about the incident before the coach and he doesn't strike me as the type to lie unless he felt it was his best option. I can't cop that he came to that conclusion based on his own reasoning given his personality.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Absolutely agree with this. And I'd like to see more colourful characters in our team, more Dane Swans or Heaters!

But I'm just not convinced this perceived lack of diversity is down to the coach. It could just be an accident of personalities. Hine is pretty dour. Maybe he's been attracted to similar types? Maybe the Grundys and De Goeys will be more outspoken as they mature? Certainly Adams and Treloar have plenty to say.

It's all about a coach being inspired by his players.. not the other way around. When a player inspires a coach the player can sense that. They respond by working harder on the track and they give 110% on the pitch.

A simple word or wink a players way is all that's needed.

 

[Scodog10]

It's all about a coach being inspired by his players.. not the other way around. When a player inspires a coach the player can sense that. They respond by working harder on the track and they give 110% on the pitch.

A simple word or wink a players way is all that's needed.

That's a very fine line to tread. I know of a player Buckley tried that with and it has thus far definitely not been a success.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Absolutely agree with this. And I'd like to see more colourful characters in our team, more Dane Swans or Heaters!

But I'm just not convinced this perceived lack of diversity is down to the coach. It could just be an accident of personalities. Hine is pretty dour. Maybe he's been attracted to similar types? Maybe the Grundys and De Goeys will be more outspoken as they mature? Certainly Adams and Treloar have plenty to say.

Been saying this for 2 yrs on here.. don't micromanage your players. Hardwick comes out on the footy show and admitted to over doing it with micro management and structures and s**t. How a senior AFL coach after so many yrs in the system has only just figured it bewildering.

If I wanna bench press 200 kilos in the gym with my top off like a hot shot.. then that's me.. that's what makes me play. If I wanna rock up as a Collingwood player to training with my sub woofers blaring to the max mate.. no harm done. I will bring that to the pitch. That flamboyancy.. I'm not stupid to neglect my role in the side. I'm not an idiot.

That's what it's about.

That's exactly what would make Collingwood hard to beat. F the rest!

 

[Saintly Viewed]

How do we actually know this? Its repeated ad nauseum on here, but could be one of those Big Footy myths. Say it often enough and we all start believing it.

I see no evidence of this in the coach. I know the rejection of Heath Shaw will be trotted out as evidence - but is it? And how many other players have been pushed because of this so-called tendency or preference of Bucks?

BTW I am just musin', not all these questions are directed at you.

And there's Rodney eade on SEN this morning saying the players love Buckley.

I think you're on to it VP, things said enough times it becomes de facto truth.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Didn't Bucks publicly support De Goey about his dog alibi?

Player deserves the benefit of the doubt. They are expected to be honest and deserve full punishment and humiliation if they aren't. At the end of the day degoey was banned for three weeks. Would have been idiotic to make the ban concurrent with his time out injured.

Pretty sure the club supported dids and heater when they drunkenly crashed into a parked car until the truth came out.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Whilst this issue is done and dusted, it is a good reminder to all parties.

To players, don't be moronic in your behaviours in public, late, with alcohol.
As Leigh Matthews has said, to paraphrase, alcohol late usually doesn't end well.

Players should be truthful.
Clubs will support good players - usually.

Punishments? That's the complex one. Is it too much, too little. What does it achieve?
Should player leadership groups get involved and distribute punishment?
Didn't our player leadership give the punishment?

Did Geelong banishment work for Stevie J? Or was it of no affect?

One thing I do strongly believe, if push comes to shove, coach v player, then nearly always the player has to suck it up.

Coach must have the final say.

If a coach pushes too much then the edifice will collapse anyway see Scott Watters.

Interesting discussion.

To finish on a Leigh Matthews articulation:

You have to weigh whether the positive outweighs the negative.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Player deserves the benefit of the doubt. They are expected to be honest and deserve full punishment and humiliation if they aren't. At the end of the day degoey was banned for three weeks. Would have been idiotic to make the ban concurrent with his time out injured.

Pretty sure the club supported dids and heater when they drunkenly crashed into a parked car until the truth came out.

Fair assessment.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Whilst this issue is done and dusted, it is a good reminder to all parties.

To players, don't be moronic in your behaviours in public, late, with alcohol.
As Leigh Matthews has said, to paraphrase, alcohol late usually doesn't end well.

Players should be truthful.
Clubs will support good players - usually.

Punishments? That's the complex one. Is it too much, too little. What does it achieve?
Should player leadership groups get involved and distribute punishment?
Didn't our player leadership give the punishment?

Did Geelong banishment work for Stevie J? Or was it of no affect?

One thing I do strongly believe, if push comes to shove, coach v player, then nearly always the player has to suck it up.

Coach must have the final say.

If a coach pushes too much then the edifice will collapse anyway see Scott Watters.

Interesting discussion.

To finish on a Leigh Matthews articulation:

You have to weigh whether the positive outweighs the negative.

And if you do play up......

Fess up

( human nature to lie to avoid ambarrassment)

 

[jackcass]

Player deserves the benefit of the doubt. They are expected to be honest and deserve full punishment and humiliation if they aren't. At the end of the day degoey was banned for three weeks. Would have been idiotic to make the ban concurrent with his time out injured.

Pretty sure the club supported dids and heater when they drunkenly crashed into a parked car until the truth came out.

The suspension likely caused him to miss 1 senior game at most. Had to recover from the injury and play at least VFL level prior to getting a senior game anyway.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The suspension likely caused him to miss 1 senior game at most. Had to recover from the injury and play at least VFL level prior to getting a senior game anyway.

Maybe. We'll never know

They might have fast tracked him back if the injury was a legitimate one that occurred in a training incident for example.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

And if you do play up......

Fess up

( human nature to lie to avoid ambarrassment)

Yes correct.

It's the most human thing to do.

Children do it almost as soon as they can, little silly untruths.
Part of being human.

However, as you get older, when playing high level sport in the public domain, sometimes it is better to just clear the decks, get a small whack before the big whack happens.

 

[Apples]

It was a whack that was a long time coming from what I can gather. Wasn't popular around the club and that was an opinion pretty much universally held. Hope the suspension is what he needed to shock him back to reality. He's a very talented young man and has gone a long way this year in developing his midfield tank. Reckon 2018 will be a beauty for him provided he keeps his head down. There's an arrogance and swagger that won't do him any harm. If only we could clone Josh Smith's personality into him we'd have a ripper.

 

[Apex36]

Absolutely agree with this. And I'd like to see more colourful characters in our team, more Dane Swans or Heaters!

But I'm just not convinced this perceived lack of diversity is down to the coach. It could just be an accident of personalities. Hine is pretty dour. Maybe he's been attracted to similar types? Maybe the Grundys and De Goeys will be more outspoken as they mature? Certainly Adams and Treloar have plenty to say.

This is the same Hine who recruited Thomas, Wellingham, Beams, Fasolo and Sidebottom amongst others? If you think that our recruiting focus hasn't shifted under Buckley I'm not sure what to say, because there's absolutely been more of a lean towards serious, hard working blue collar types over flashy outgoing types since he took over.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It was a whack that was a long time coming from what I can gather. Wasn't popular around the club and that was an opinion pretty much universally held. Hope the suspension is what he needed to shock him back to reality. He's a very talented young man and has gone a long way this year in developing his midfield tank. Reckon 2018 will be a beauty for him provided he keeps his head down. There's an arrogance and swagger that won't do him any harm. If only we could clone Josh Smith's personality into him we'd have a ripper.

That's a bingo!

 

[jackcass]

This is the same Hine who recruited Thomas, Wellingham, Beams, Fasolo and Sidebottom amongst others? If you think that our recruiting focus hasn't shifted under Buckley I'm not sure what to say, because there's absolutely been more of a lean towards serious, hard working blue collar types over flashy outgoing types since he took over.

I'm less convinced there's been a conscious shift in the types of characters drafted and/or traded after all we've added Patty K, Elliott, Treloar, Kennedy, Williams, DeGoey types over that period.

 

[Apex36]

I'm less convinced there's been a conscious shift in the types of characters drafted and/or traded after all we've added Patty K, Elliott, Treloar, Kennedy, Williams, DeGoey types over that period.

Elliott and Treloar, whilst supremely talented, are two of the hardest working players at the club too, so I wouldn't put them in the same category. Wouldn't regard BK or PK as much of a flashy outgoing type either.

I probably didn't express myself clearly either. I think there's been a shift from players who might rely on their talent more than hard work to be successful. The end result has become a playing group that relies too much on blue collar types rather than more talented but less hard working players. There are exceptions like Fasolo obviously, but to me it just seems skewed that way. If Kirby had been drafted by another club I reckon he'd have had a taste of senior action by now, regardless of his fitness for example. (Not trying to say he's being mismanaged, I'm actually comfortable with the way they've managed him this year).

 

[Apples]

Elliott and Treloar, whilst supremely talented, are two of the hardest working players at the club too, so I wouldn't put them in the same category. Wouldn't regard BK or PK as much of a flashy outgoing type either.

I probably didn't express myself clearly either. I think there's been a shift from players who might rely on their talent more than hard work to be successful. The end result has become a playing group that relies too much on blue collar types rather than more talented but less hard working players. There are exceptions like Fasolo obviously, but to me it just seems skewed that way. If Kirby had been drafted by another club I reckon he'd have had a taste of senior action by now, regardless of his fitness for example. (Not trying to say he's being mismanaged, I'm actually comfortable with the way they've managed him this year).

Disagree on Kirby. Talented no doubt, but he has no tank......yet. Excited by what may be in store, but he's still not match fit for AFL. Needs a really good preseason.

 

[Apex36]

Disagree on Kirby. Talented no doubt, but he has no tank......yet. Excited by what may be in store, but he's still not match fit for AFL. Needs a really good preseason.

Yes I'm aware his tank is not up to scratch yet, but there are ways to manage that. We've had a few instances of players only getting 60-70% game time this year coming off injuries etc, they could do the same for Kayle. I hope he is given a taste in the next fortnight. We have nothing to lose by playing him at this point and I think the experience would be a good motivator for him going in to the new preseason.

 

[Vicky Park]

And there's Rodney eade on SEN this morning saying the players love Buckley.

I think you're on to it VP, things said enough times it becomes de facto truth.

It's interesting following these BigFooty narratives.

For years we've been told that Bucks doesn't have the players, doesn't have locker room.

Now that story seems to have been turned on its head, and we pick up the narrative of him trying to force them all into being robots, playing his way and without flair. I actually wish they played like robots sometimes! It might produce better results!

But in all seriousness, the bottom line is we don't actually know. We are not in the inner sanctum. We do not have access to, or visibility of, the coach's relationship with his players. We're pretty sure they like him. Would they if he was curbing their natural footy tendencies?

 

[loki04]

It's interesting following these BigFooty narratives.

For years we've been told that Bucks doesn't have the players, doesn't have locker room.

Now that story seems to have been turned on its head, and we pick up the narrative of him trying to force them all into being robots, playing his way and without flair. I actually wish they played like robots sometimes! It might produce better results!

But in all seriousness, the bottom line is we don't actually know. We are not in the inner sanctum. We do not have access to, or visibility of, the coach's relationship with his players. We're pretty sure they like him. Would they if he was curbing their natural footy tendencies?

To be fair when Buckley took over he is self admitted he almost lost the locker room.

They have since rebuuilt the list with his players and as such the narrative has changed they all mostly love him...So why too wouldn't BF now be saying the opposite of 2 -3 years ago?


Anyway who cares the players clearly playing for him now and he is likely to get the 2 year deal that was rumoured back before the bye. So we move on how do we improve development and recruiting, how do we improve strength and size whilst maintaining good endurance. Firstly piss Daveron off and go looking at the Geelong guy..

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It's interesting following these BigFooty narratives.

For years we've been told that Bucks doesn't have the players, doesn't have locker room.

Now that story seems to have been turned on its head, and we pick up the narrative of him trying to force them all into being robots, playing his way and without flair. I actually wish they played like robots sometimes! It might produce better results!

But in all seriousness, the bottom line is we don't actually know. We are not in the inner sanctum. We do not have access to, or visibility of, the coach's relationship with his players. We're pretty sure they like him. Would they if he was curbing their natural footy tendencies?

All correct.

It's been fascinating that Nathan has gone from something (by quite a few posters) quite ugly in character, hated disliked by the playing group etc, to now, much loved (too much?) by the playing group.

He did say he lost the group early doors. But seems that's changed now.

How he was unable to deal with disparate personalities, but yet Swan managed, Adams was a bit troubled to now being Nathan's champion foot soldier.

I'd venture to say in any group of 45 players or so plus all the coaches, staff, back office, not one person here on big footy could manage them all perfectly.
Life just does not work that way.

I'd venture to say I'm one of the more patient people, but I'm certain some in the club would test my patience.
It's just life.

Best cure? Win more games.

But you are right, none of us have real insight to the group dynamics as we are not there.

And if we were, each of us would have a different dynamic of the same events. Again that's human responses.

Nathan is far from perfect, makes mistakes no doubt but isn't devoid of good qualities as well.

And by the way, when we get so called inside information, it is only from that particular perspective, and human nature dictates the teller always makes sure they look as good as they can in the telling, and they run to their agenda whatever that may be, it's a very human thing to do.

(And ofcourse nobody ever puts mayo on a story, naughty, perish the thought )