Opinion Josh Battle

[Stan_Darsh72]

Kosi & Roo both played their first year at CHB, David Neitz started as a CHB. Its not like better players cant rotate between forward and back.

Can't forget Gerhig played down back for us too.

The year down back for Battle is great for his development, He will be a smarter forward for it and also has proven to be pretty good down back too.

 

[Impatient Saint]

The short term temptation might be to fill a gap in the fwd line but the long term plan should see him as a dynamic, quick, strong and skillful key back.

Leave him back and let him continue to flourish. Don't tinker with it. Address our disfunctional fwd line some other way

Our issue is we now have a distinct list inbalance -

Tall defenders - Battle, Carlisle, Clavarino, Joyce, Brown, Marsh, Rowe, Roberton (?) & Wilkie - who have all played AFL.
Tall forwards - Bruce & Membrey, McCartin (?) - played AFL. King & Mayo who havent.

Who NOW do we place in the forward line to address our weakness, we simply cant kick enough goals? Perhaps they play Carlisle permanently forward, which would be a positive move, otherwise Battle is the most obvious player to move forward.

 

[gringo2011]

Don't get me wrong, the move to the back line has worked a treat and he is playing very good!

Using Sicily to describe Josh is spot on and i can see it 100%.

Now let me ask you a question.. If Josh could turn out like A) Sicily as a defender or B) Gunston 45-60 goal forward season after season who would you prefer?

Gunston every time. Sicily is very similar to the way battle goes about it but quite a bit shorter from memory. I remember reading Siciliy is like Membrey size. Josh is surprisingly tall up close. He'd be over 190cm.

 

[gringo2011]

The short term temptation might be to fill a gap in the fwd line but the long term plan should see him as a dynamic, quick, strong and skillful key back.

Leave him back and let him continue to flourish. Don't tinker with it. Address our disfunctional fwd line some other way

What if he's just improved in general? I'd love to get a player in who could actually regularly kick goals. It sounds like we plan to play Marshall forward ruck though so perhaps he stays there anyway. King, Membrey, Bruce, Battle and Marshall sounds very crowded for talls.

 

[Ads734]

I always thought that last year when he came in before he got injured he made our forward line far more functional. His ability run up the wings just seemed to improve the flow of our ball movement. It seemed to me that he was really building as a forward improving his goal kicking numbers weekly. Obviously I’m stoked with how well he’s doing down
Back but he still has all the tools to be a really good forward.
Regardless great recruiting to bring him in at the pick we did

 

[gringo2011]

Our issue is we now have a distinct list inbalance -

Tall defenders - Battle, Carlisle, Clavarino, Joyce, Brown, Marsh, Rowe, Roberton (?) & Wilkie - who have all played AFL.
Tall forwards - Bruce & Membrey, McCartin (?) - played AFL. King & Mayo who havent.

Who NOW do we place in the forward line to address our weakness, we simply cant kick enough goals? Perhaps they play Carlisle permanently forward, which would be a positive move, otherwise Battle is the most obvious player to move forward.

Carlisle kicked bags at Essendon but it was as a rebound defender who kind of surprise attacked. He never really played as a true KPF. He's been pretty poor when he has been played as a KPF.

 

[Moral Decay]

2

So two players that have never played an AFL game displace the only 50 goal in a season ayer we have. We play 4 key forwards and have a debutant defender hold down a post and a 30 year old with a dodgy back holding down the other?

Yeah I get it, I'm worried about Bruce and his body.

I'm worried about forwards whose role is to keep the ball in the forward line but not score goals.

I should have gone for end of 2022 so all the younger players have had 20+ games.
If it came to a choice between Battle forward and Young/Newnes/Acres or even Dunstan, I hope we'd choose for talent opposed to size.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Carlisle kicked bags at Essendon but it was as a rebound defender who kind of surprise attacked. He never really played as a true KPF. He's been pretty poor when he has been played as a KPF.

Not quite true. He had a proper seven weeks of time up forward at the end of 2014. Kicked 21.12 in this time.

 

[gringo2011]

I always thought that last year when he came in before he got injured he made our forward line far more functional. His ability run up the wings just seemed to improve the flow of our ball movement. It seemed to me that he was really building as a forward improving his goal kicking numbers weekly. Obviously I’m stoked with how well he’s doing down
Back but he still has all the tools to be a really good forward.
Regardless great recruiting to bring him in at the pick we did

He was running at a goal a game playing forward which is very good for a kid in their first 7 games.

 

[gringo2011]

Not quite true. He had a proper seven weeks of time up forward at the end of 2014. Kicked 21.12 in this time.

I remember him at the time and he was not playing as a KP he was mobile and kicked a lot from long range. He was playing loose where ever he set up.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I remember him at the time and he was not playing as a KP he was mobile and kicked a lot from long range. He was playing loose where ever he set up.

I can’t imagine he had 33 shots on goal in seven weeks by floating up as a loose defender. My memory is that he was playing as a genuine KPF. It might not have worked as well in seasons after, but he’s definitely had proper stints as a successful KPF.

 

[mightymalaka]

Carlisle forward has rarely worked even at Essendon!
The couple of times he kicked a bag was when he was switched fwd in games..Seem to remember him kicking 8 against the Doggies once!

But whenever he started as a key forward he struggled!
When Jake comes back i would prefer Battle the natural forward to go there if we were to use one of the two!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Our issue is we now have a distinct list inbalance -

Tall defenders - Battle, Carlisle, Clavarino, Joyce, Brown, Marsh, Rowe, Roberton (?) & Wilkie - who have all played AFL.
Tall forwards - Bruce & Membrey, McCartin (?) - played AFL. King & Mayo who havent.

Who NOW do we place in the forward line to address our weakness, we simply cant kick enough goals? Perhaps they play Carlisle permanently forward, which would be a positive move, otherwise Battle is the most obvious player to move forward.

Richmond have no depth, trade them a young key defender ( Joyce ) for Jack Graham.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I can’t imagine he had 33 shots on goal in seven weeks by floating up as a loose defender. My memory is that he was playing as a genuine KPF. It might not have worked as well in seasons after, but he’s definitely had proper stints as a successful KPF.

That's my memory, he also stated that he didn't like playing as a forward.

 

[Ducky Tie]

That's my memory, he also stated that he didn't like playing as a forward.

Yeah, it was part of the reason he chose to come to the Saints. Has never wanted to play forward.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Here we go.

Wash your eyeballs out when finished ( bombers thread ).

Hurley back, Carlisle forward

Confirmed by Bomber on Twitter this arvo.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[ScrappyDo]

Our issue is we now have a distinct list inbalance -

Tall defenders - Battle, Carlisle, Clavarino, Joyce, Brown, Marsh, Rowe, Roberton (?) & Wilkie - who have all played AFL.
Tall forwards - Bruce & Membrey, McCartin (?) - played AFL. King & Mayo who havent.

Who NOW do we place in the forward line to address our weakness, we simply cant kick enough goals? Perhaps they play Carlisle permanently forward, which would be a positive move, otherwise Battle is the most obvious player to move forward.

Nar.
Brown is obsolete
Rowe is a stopgap for delistment
Robbo is retired
Austin (not mentioned) might be crap
Wilkie isn't really a tall
Joyce hasn't translated to afl so far.

Just like a few years ago when we had too many rucks and 3 years later not one of the will be on the list. Our KPD stocks aren't what they seem..

 

[plugger66]

Our issue is we now have a distinct list inbalance -

Tall defenders - Battle, Carlisle, Clavarino, Joyce, Brown, Marsh, Rowe, Roberton (?) & Wilkie - who have all played AFL.
Tall forwards - Bruce & Membrey, McCartin (?) - played AFL. King & Mayo who havent.

Who NOW do we place in the forward line to address our weakness, we simply cant kick enough goals? Perhaps they play Carlisle permanently forward, which would be a positive move, otherwise Battle is the most obvious player to move forward.

Interesting stats when you want to prove a point. Clay played afl. No. Roberton doesn’t even play. Rowe plays as much forward as back but is neither because he is afill in. The only time we had 3 marking forwards this year is when marsh played there. I could justify changing half them around to prove we have more forwards. Anyway height isn’t the issue. It’s ball use by the mids. We need to fix that up or height won’t mean a thing.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I thought it was a masterstroke to develop him as a backman this season.
(who do we thank for that?)

We’ve seen he can be a genuine swingman, and with so many variables at the end of the year he gives great flexibility -

In the backline - Brown and Robbo to retire? Carlisle’s back issues etc
In the forward line - no Paddy, a newbie in King, a possible Bruce trade...

We can basically use him wherever we want next season depending on any trading and drafting we do at the end of the season. IMO anyway.

A brilliant find at #39. Was it Sheehan who said he’d be the steal of the draft?

 

[Keg on legs]

What if he's just improved in general? I'd love to get a player in who could actually regularly kick goals. It sounds like we plan to play Marshall forward ruck though so perhaps he stays there anyway. King, Membrey, Bruce, Battle and Marshall sounds very crowded for talls.

Our issue is we now have a distinct list inbalance -

Tall defenders - Battle, Carlisle, Clavarino, Joyce, Brown, Marsh, Rowe, Roberton (?) & Wilkie - who have all played AFL.
Tall forwards - Bruce & Membrey, McCartin (?) - played AFL. King & Mayo who havent.

Who NOW do we place in the forward line to address our weakness, we simply cant kick enough goals? Perhaps they play Carlisle permanently forward, which would be a positive move, otherwise Battle is the most obvious player to move forward.

I get all that IS, and I agree, if we play for the NOW then it is either JC or Battle.

BUT- I would suggest we are not winning the flag this year, so we should be building for when we are in the window. And i think Battle as a key def is a massive part of that.

The club have seen the potential there and credit to them. He has been a revelation this year.

For me he stays back and if we have to re-jig how we put the ball fwd then so be it.

Gringo - 100% he has improved. He would be an effective fwd but I genuinely think he is showing enough as a key back to suggest he could be a top 10 def in a few years time (big call I know). That's why I dont want him moved

Let's get creative with our fwd line. Just off the top of my head- what about using Parker as a lead up fwd instead of a pressure fwd? He's 190cm with a good leap.

Skunk needs to be our 3rd fwd. That won't happen until either Winx, Mayo or Marshall / Battle play fwd so I get the calls. I just want to see him stay back and build on what has been a pretty impressive year so far

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I thought it was a masterstroke to develop him as a backman this season.
(who do we thank for that?)

We’ve seen he can be a genuine swingman, and with so many variables at the end of the year he gives great flexibility -

In the backline - Brown and Robbo to retire? Carlisle’s back issues etc
In the forward line - no Paddy, a newbie in King, a possible Bruce trade...

We can basically use him wherever we want next season depending on any trading and drafting we do at the end of the season. IMO anyway.

A brilliant find at #39. Was it Sheehan who said he’d be the steal of the draft?

Surely it has to be Ratten.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

For the amount of games he has played the kid is playing great where he is.
So im happy for the club to keep him there for rest of the season.
Once he has more experience he might end up being a good swing man but id keep him settled where he is playing good for now.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Carlisle forward has rarely worked even at Essendon!
The couple of times he kicked a bag was when he was switched fwd in games..Seem to remember him kicking 8 against the Doggies

Nar.
Brown is obsolete
Rowe is a stopgap for delistment
Robbo is retired
Austin (not mentioned) might be crap
Wilkie isn't really a tall
Joyce hasn't translated to afl so far.

Just like a few years ago when we had too many rucks and 3 years later not one of the will be on the list. Our KPD stocks aren't what they seem..

The big issue is for me is about the NOW, our current forward line still cant kick a winning score against the better sides. King is an 18 y/o who probably wont play an AFL game this year. What happens if Bruce or Membrey or both down this year?

Football hasnt changed in 150 years and playing forwards cant be taught and natural forwards are difficult to find. Natural goal kickers - how many of those players do we have? Players have either got it or they havent when playing forward, whereas GOP's can do a good job in defence. Battle has got the tools to play forward and now that Carlisle is back I think it would be stupid for him not to move forward. We simply need to kick more goals and if Battle doesnt work forward, he can always move back again. Its not like he is leaving the country.

Scrappy I believe Austin will make a solid defender and was poorly managed in his few AFL games. The club were raving about how well Clavarino was going in the pre season before doing his ankle. Wilkie played on 2m Peter in the 2nd half vs GCS, he is not tall but like Roberton he can play on small and talls. Marsh looks like he has the tools to fill Browns role when he goes.

Yes Roberton and McCartin are unlikely to play again and Wilkie is ready to step into Roberton's role, who is ready to step into Paddy's role or Buce or Membrey? I think we do have the key defender depth covered and in time perhaps King & Mayo might be our go to forwards, but for the NOW Battle needs to play forward. Whats wrong with having a talented swingman, why do all players have to be pidgeon holed?

 

[ScrappyDo]

The big issue is for me is about the NOW, our current forward line still cant kick winning score against the better sides. King is an 18 y/o who probably wont play an AFL game this year. What happens if Bruce or Membrey of both down this year?

Football hasnt changed in 150 years and playing forwards cant be taught and natural forwards are difficult to find. Natural goal kickers - how many of those players do we have? Players have either got it or they havent when playing forward, whereas GOP's can do a good job in defence. Battle has got the tools to play forward and now that Carlisle is back I think it would be stupid for him not to move forward. We simply need to kick more goals and if Battle doesnt work forward, he can always move back again. Its not like he is leaving the country.

Scrappy I believe Austin will make a solid defender and was poorly managed in his few AFL games. The club were raving about how well Clavarino was going in the pre season before doing his ankle. Wilkie played on 2m Peter in the 2nd half vs GCS, he is not tall but like Roberton he can on small and talls. Marsh looks like he has the tools to fill Browns role when he goes.

Yes Roberton and McCartin are unlikely to play again and Wilkie is ready to step into Roberton's role, who is ready to step into Paddy's role. I think we have do have the key defender depth covered and in time perhaps King & Mayo might be our go to forwards, but for the NOW Battle needs to play forward. Whats wrong with having a talented swingman, why do all players have to be pidgeon holed?

Ok l see your point and differences of opinion about the unproven guys aside, l pretty much agree about the immediate situation. But tbh l don't think the club (or many here) are as concerned about that as yaself. Personally I'm looking at 2021 to be contending again. We "may" make finals this year and next, but our list demographics say we'll have to wait, and so I'm prioritizing development ahead of all else. I also don't really think that putting Josh into our rather dysfunctional forward line will make much difference until our mids can deliver the ball properly and our forward structures improve out of sight. Since our defensive structures are working pretty well, I'd rather see him developed within there for the time being instead of in chaos land. Right now l think he prevents more oppo scores than he'd kick for us down the other end. And since we're ravaged with injuries again the coaches absolutely will not be tinkering with one of the few things that's genuinely working. You'll just have to suck it up..

 

[my name was taken]

Im conflicted, part of me wants him forward to release Bruce to play more aggressively up the wing where he clunks marks at a rate 10,000% higher than when he is in goal kicking range. Use Bruces work rate for that bail out kick we used Nick for so often. At the moment if bruce takes that mark he turns around and sees nothing to go to.
Anything to fix our shocking transition, we are better than a side that average like 70points! But the scoreboard says otherwise.