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Toast Josh Caddy

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David the Cat said:
Well....on the plane to OZ tonight...Fremantle game on the Agenda....


WOOOHOOOOO......
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as Sunil Gavaskar , in the words of Billy Birmingham put it when Chapelli won the 100 on AB winning the toss....

"You LUCKY prick!" :D

Go Catters
 
4quarter_cat said:
I'd say that Joel Corey would have to be top of the list. Great though he may be, his lack of speed could cost us badly in september.
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Call me when we consistently win centre clearances without Corey, Johnson, Chapman, Stokes or Bartel in there.

We still need Corey. In fact he supplies something we are critically short of lately, i.e., inside clearance work.

I am excited about the kids, but don't forget how long it took for our last great midfield to get up to elite level - people seem to forget that those guys were drafted in the late 1990s and early 2000s, i.e., it took a solid 6-7 years for most of them to start dominating in the midfield.

At the moment Selwood is approaching that level of experience, along with... ??
 
caitsith01 said:
Call me when we consistently win centre clearances without Corey, Johnson, Chapman, Stokes or Bartel in there.

We still need Corey. In fact he supplies something we are critically short of lately, i.e., inside clearance work.

I am excited about the kids, but don't forget how long it took for our last great midfield to get up to elite level - people seem to forget that those guys were drafted in the late 1990s and early 2000s, i.e., it took a solid 6-7 years for most of them to start dominating in the midfield.

At the moment Selwood is approaching that level of experience, along with... ??
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But we don't win clearances even with those guys in there. That's the myth. It's not just the younger midfielders who aren't winning clearances. It's the midfielders. Period.

Here's the full list per game. The key players it seems to me are (in order) Kelly, Johnson and Selwood. Christensen and Corey just behind them. After that it's very even:

Kelly (5.7)
Johnson (5.0)
Selwood (4.4)
Christensen (2.9)
Corey (2.7)
Chapman (2.3)
GHS (2.3)
Blicavs (2.1)
Stokes (1.9)
West (1.8)
Bartel (1.8)
Schroder (1.2)
Duncan (1.1)
Caddy (0.7)
T.Hunt (0.6)
Motlop (0.5)

Underlines how incredibly important Kelly and Johnson are to us. But you can't claim Corey or especially Bartel are vital to our clearance numbers. As the stats show, they aren't. Also shows how fanciful it is right now for Caddy to be spoken of as any kind of clearance specialist. Hopefully in time, but not yet.

Funny how West is one of our big weaknesses with clearances, yet he gets as many as Bartel. Interesting.
 

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footscore said:
Remarkable stat with Blicavs averaging 2 clearances every game.

Can you imagine if Scott trialed him as an inside mid, right next to Kelly and Selwood in the center square :eek:
Have West or Vardy rucking and Blicavs below who could keep toe with most midfielders, he would gather at least 5 clearances every game if he played in there full time due to the size and agility of the man.
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I think it highlights how the ruckman's role has changed now, when West (1.8) and Blicavs (2.1) are getting reasonable clearance numbers in their own right, alongside actually winning hitouts.
 
footscore said:
true but also, how many minutes does Blicavs actually spend in the middle anyways?
To gather 2 clearances in the short amount of time, he has something the coaching staff identified from day one.
I also love the fact he very rarely gives away free kicks, you would think being 6ft'6 you would occasionally infringe on the smaller players around you but he doesn't.
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I find it interesting to watch him when he goes to tackle a player who is smaller than him, because he seems to stop himself before he makes the tackle to almost check himself and make sure he is going to go low enough to not give away the high tackle. Yet when he does that he doesn't allow the opposition player to get away from him either which is really good.

Also, you wouldn't be blamed if you thought on the eve of the season he may have been in danger of giving away his fair share of free kicks in ruck contests due to being relatively new as a ruckman, but that doesn't really seem the case.
He may be less impacted by the new ruck rules than others because he doesn't have the experience of playing under the old rules where he is trying to get out of those habits.
 
Partridge said:
But we don't win clearances even with those guys in there. That's the myth. It's not just the younger midfielders who aren't winning clearances. It's the midfielders. Period.

Here's the full list per game. The key players it seems to me are (in order) Kelly, Johnson and Selwood. Christensen and Corey just behind them. After that it's very even:

Kelly (5.7)
Johnson (5.0)
Selwood (4.4)
Christensen (2.9)
Corey (2.7)
Chapman (2.3)
GHS (2.3)
Blicavs (2.1)
Stokes (1.9)
West (1.8)
Bartel (1.8)
Schroder (1.2)
Duncan (1.1)
Caddy (0.7)
T.Hunt (0.6)
Motlop (0.5)

Underlines how incredibly important Kelly and Johnson are to us. But you can't claim Corey or especially Bartel are vital to our clearance numbers. As the stats show, they aren't. Also shows how fanciful it is right now for Caddy to be spoken of as any kind of clearance specialist. Hopefully in time, but not yet.

Funny how West is one of our big weaknesses with clearances, yet he gets as many as Bartel. Interesting.
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Good post, but I think it kinda proves my point. Re Bartel, he's hardly been in the middle all year yet still figures above Duncan and Caddy, who have been in there a fair bit. The top of that list basically bears out what I said IMHO (I forgot Kelly, but he's vital, I agree). Apart from Christensen none of the younger players are above Corey.

The GHS numbers are interesting and suggest an obvious course of action to me (play him in the guts every damn week).

I would really like the young 'uns to step up and liberate Dog, in particular, from his midfield duties.
 
caitsith01 said:
Good post, but I think it kinda proves my point. Re Bartel, he's hardly been in the middle all year yet still figures above Duncan and Caddy, who have been in there a fair bit. The top of that list basically bears out what I said IMHO (I forgot Kelly, but he's vital, I agree). Apart from Christensen none of the younger players are above Corey.

The GHS numbers are interesting and suggest an obvious course of action to me (play him in the guts every damn week).

I would really like the young 'uns to step up and liberate Dog, in particular, from his midfield duties.
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I haven't really looked at it closely, but my impression is that we tend to start games with our less experienced players in the middle, and players like Bartel, Corey and maybe to a lesser extent Kelly are often not in the centre until late in the game. This could explain both the lower clearance rate of the experienced players, and why we often start slowly but run out games really well.

I think Scott is not only getting games into the less experienced players, but also giving them substantial time in the centre. This is obviously often to the detriment of our overall game in the short-term, and it is often up to the usual suspects to step up in the last quarter. But it is all part of the succession planning, so that at least when Bartel, Corey et al are gone, our next tier of midfielders will have enough experience in the clearances that they can hopefully step up.
 
mac_cat said:
I haven't really looked at it closely, but my impression is that we tend to start games with our less experienced players in the middle, and players like Bartel, Corey and maybe to a lesser extent Kelly are often not in the centre until late in the game. This could explain both the lower clearance rate of the experienced players, and why we often start slowly but run out games really well.

I think Scott is not only getting games into the less experienced players, but also giving them substantial time in the centre. This is obviously often to the detriment of our overall game in the short-term, and it is often up to the usual suspects to step up in the last quarter. But it is all part of the succession planning, so that at least when Bartel, Corey et al are gone, our next tier of midfielders will have enough experience in the clearances that they can hopefully step up.
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I think that analysis is spot on - it's clearly deliberate, and yes, Scott tends to throw the old guard in there when the game is in the balance. Long term there will be huge benefits, no doubt.

My only point was - I don't know that I accept Corey is first on the chopping block just yet! The kittens aren't cats yet.
 
caitsith01 said:
Good post, but I think it kinda proves my point. Re Bartel, he's hardly been in the middle all year yet still figures above Duncan and Caddy, who have been in there a fair bit. The top of that list basically bears out what I said IMHO (I forgot Kelly, but he's vital, I agree). Apart from Christensen none of the younger players are above Corey.

The GHS numbers are interesting and suggest an obvious course of action to me (play him in the guts every damn week).

I would really like the young 'uns to step up and liberate Dog, in particular, from his midfield duties.
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Bartel has played as much if not more in the middle than Duncan and Caddy. Caddy has played mostly as a forward/high flanker whereas Duncan has been played a lot as a half back runner/winger, both with very occasional stints in the guts.
 
Senatorguesty said:
Bartel has played as much if not more in the middle than Duncan and Caddy. Caddy has played mostly as a forward/high flanker when Duncan has been played a lot as a half back running/winger, both with very occasional stints in the guts.
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Correct, SG.
 
caitsith01 said:
I think that analysis is spot on - it's clearly deliberate, and yes, Scott tends to throw the old guard in there when the game is in the balance. Long term there will be huge benefits, no doubt.

My only point was - I don't know that I accept Corey is first on the chopping block just yet! The kittens aren't cats yet.
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My point is that of the experienced players, when the kittens (as you call them) start to perform, Corey will be the first one to get the chop, IMHO. I think Partridges stats support this argument to a degree. Although I'm not the biggest fan of stats cause they only ever tell a fraction of the story.
 

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Caddy close to BOG lat time out for the VFL, he might have expected a red carpet this week. So no red carpet and no guarantees. IF Josh didn't know that Geelong is different to GC at R1 , he does now. And thats a good thing. Plenty of the current champs had to work , work hard to become locks. I remember Bartel having to learn the lesson early on.

Its not about now or this week or even finals this year. Its about the next group, the new wave, the next era etc...

We all have our favorites but the MC are doing as much as they can , imo, to get games tallys up in as many kids as possible while still maintaining us as a threat.

Whether Joel Corey is still in the side come finals will be dependent on him. If he shows what the MC like the next few weeks I can see him being a lock. He has never spent a huge amount of time in D and he is still learning the role. As he mention in a media blurb recently , he feels revitalized playing this new role surround by players that have travelled their careers together. He will make mistakes , he will butcher the odd disposal , he is no spring chicken either. But boy , when its tight and tough and the axe is hitting the redgum and the splitters are flying..he's the man you want out there. He is someone who rises in the heat of the moment. And while he is physically capable .... he is playing in my side.
 
Partridge said:
But we don't win clearances even with those guys in there. That's the myth. It's not just the younger midfielders who aren't winning clearances. It's the midfielders. Period.

Here's the full list per game. The key players it seems to me are (in order) Kelly, Johnson and Selwood. Christensen and Corey just behind them. After that it's very even:

Kelly (5.7)
Johnson (5.0)
Selwood (4.4)
Christensen (2.9)
Corey (2.7)
Chapman (2.3)
GHS (2.3)
Blicavs (2.1)
Stokes (1.9)
West (1.8)
Bartel (1.8)
Schroder (1.2)
Duncan (1.1)
Caddy (0.7)
T.Hunt (0.6)
Motlop (0.5)

Underlines how incredibly important Kelly and Johnson are to us. But you can't claim Corey or especially Bartel are vital to our clearance numbers. As the stats show, they aren't. Also shows how fanciful it is right now for Caddy to be spoken of as any kind of clearance specialist. Hopefully in time, but not yet.

Funny how West is one of our big weaknesses with clearances, yet he gets as many as Bartel. Interesting.
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And to think we beat Hawthorn with those two out round 1!
 
4quarter_cat said:
Don't disagree Fred, Just meant that if they perform well enough that they must be played in the best 22 come finals that Corey is probably the lowest hanging apple.
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Wouldn't the lowest hanging apple be the first one picked. o_O Or is that just lazy?
 

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4quarter_cat said:
That is a very nice thought indeed SC, can't wait for the game in 3 weeks.
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All the stars could seemingly align for us playing Hawthorn, and then we could drop the game anyway. We are not going to keep winning forever, we have to drop a game sooner or later. We have done really well against Hawthorn since our GF loss, and it is incredible to think that we have beaten them 10 straight times. When you think about it, there isn't too many teams that we haven't dropped a game to since round 1 2009, and Hawthorn have been second only to us for consistency over that period. Let's hope we can win twice against them this year. ;)
 
Strangled Cat said:
All the stars could seemingly align for us playing Hawthorn, and then we could drop the game anyway. We are not going to keep winning forever, we have to drop a game sooner or later. We have done really well against Hawthorn since our GF loss, and it is incredible to think that we have beaten them 10 straight times. When you think about it, there isn't too many teams that we haven't dropped a game to since round 1 2009, and Hawthorn have been second only to us for consistency over that period. Let's hope we can win twice against them this year. ;)
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Of course your correct... but we don't have to beat them 11 times in a row. Just one game. Hawks right now are looking bad... for everyone else. Have a nice balance and their stars are aligning. Even getting one by them now would not excluding beating them later in the year.. and visa versa.

They got whipped in the ruck and clearances like a team that should never be , but was still too good for WC.

And as much as it erks me , we must not lose sight of our goal which is 2014/2015 ish. Perhaps they are the side far closer to a Premiership side than us this year. Doesn't mean we can not beat them but it means we would would be the underdogs. Like them in 2008... Ohh how sweet that would be.

If we are to beat them , we need a bit of luck and we need a full list to choose from and we need our kid to not just be making up the numbers accruing games , we need them playing outstanding footy.
Thats where Caddy and Smedts etc come into play. They are 2015 type players but can they come to the party early. Menzel hurts, he would add so much right now. We still have no other player that can do what he could in his age group. Smedts has shown glimpses but not yet.
Caddy could still play a role in this. If he plays well enough again today , next week is not out of bounds.
 
Turbocat said:
Of course your correct... but we don't have to beat them 11 times in a row. Just one game. Hawks right now are looking bad... for everyone else. Have a nice balance and their stars are aligning. Even getting one by them now would not excluding beating them later in the year.. and visa versa.

The got whipped in the ruck and clearances like a team that should never be , but was still too good for WC.

And as much as it erks me , we must not lose sight of our goal which is 2014/2015 ish. Perhaps they are the side far closer to a Premiership side than us this year. Doesn't mean we can not beat them but it means we would would be the underdogs. Like them in 2008... Ohh how sweet that would be.

If are to beat them , we need a bit of luck and we need a full list to choose from and we need our kid to not just be making up the numbers accruing games , we need them playing outstanding footy.
Thats where Caddy and Smedts etc come into play. They are 2015 type players but can they come to the party early. Menzel hurts, he would add so much right now. We still have no other player that can do what he could in his age group. Smedts has shown glimpses but not yet.
Caddy could still play a role in this. If he plays well enough again today , next week is not out of bounds.
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Menzel's ongoing injuries are such a shame because he would have been tearing the competition apart by now. His form in late 2011 including the final against Hawthorn where he did his knee was just scintilating. Hopefully Caddy and Smedts step up to be elite players in time. I see ridiculous potential in Billie, but I also see him making ridiculous decisions too. Caddy I've got no doubt will become a great player. Just wait and see once he's got 100 games under his belt.
 
Turbocat said:
Caddy close to BOG lat time out for the VFL, he might have expected a red carpet this week. So no red carpet and no guarantees. IF Josh didn't know that Geelong is different to GC at R1 , he does now. And thats a good thing. Plenty of the current champs had to work , work hard to become locks. I remember Bartel having to learn the lesson early on.

Its not about now or this week or even finals this year. Its about the next group, the new wave, the next era etc...

We all have our favorites but the MC are doing as much as they can , imo, to get games tallys up in as many kids as possible while still maintaining us as a threat.

Whether Joel Corey is still in the side come finals will be dependent on him. If he shows what the MC like the next few weeks I can see him being a lock. He has never spent a huge amount of time in D and he is still learning the role. As he mention in a media blurb recently , he feels revitalized playing this new role surround by players that have travelled their careers together. He will make mistakes , he will butcher the odd disposal , he is no spring chicken either. But boy , when its tight and tough and the axe is hitting the redgum and the splitters are flying..he's the man you want out there. He is someone who rises in the heat of the moment. And while he is physically capable .... he is playing in my side.
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Amen to that Brotha!

Go Catters
 

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