Contracted Josh Dunkley [OOC 2022, requested a trade to Essendon, didn't get there]

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threenewpadlocks

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I have no issues for 2 firsts but not 2 x top 10’s especially next year which is a super stacked draft.

Something significant would have had to come back with Dunkley which I doubt dogs would do.

If Essendon were lazy and didn’t get another clubs 2021 first than that’s a different story but again, depends what it meant giving up this year.
Look at the players who were drafted pick 7 and 8 in the last 10 years.
Dunkley will probably have a better career if you doubled the average career of those 20 players.

For example, those 20 players have only made the All-Australian squad of 40, 3 times in their careers, something Dunkley has already done and probably should do again.

Entirely fair request for a contracted player.
 

HirdsTheWord

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Look at the players who were drafted pick 7 and 8 in the last 10 years.
Dunkley will probably have a better career if you doubled the average career of those 20 players.

For example, those 20 players have only made the All-Australian squad of 40, 3 times in their careers, something Dunkley has already done and probably should do again.

Entirely fair request for a contracted player.
There are players in Pick 7 & 8 in the last 10 drafts that I would easily take ahead of Dunkley now given what I know and have seen. a few of them are actual All Australians. It's a gamble either way. Dunkley has syndesmosis this year, who's to say that doesn't stick around and hamper him?

Dunkley is being valued on his potential of which I think he has a lot but he has not shown anything to warrant what was requested.

I do agree though as a contracted player it is the dogs right to request such a trade, as ridiculous as it is.
 

threenewpadlocks

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There are players in Pick 7 & 8 in the last 10 drafts that I would easily take ahead of Dunkley now given what I know and have seen.
Nick Haynes is pretty much the only better player. Wines and Heppell I'd argue will have marginally worse careers than Dunkley when it's all said and done.

A simple way would be to look at Brownlow votes polled and pick 7 and 8 together for an average career roughly equate to what Dunkley should equate to the rest of the career, by the simple average of Brownlow votes per game over the rest of the career.
 

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HirdsTheWord

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Nick Haynes is pretty much the only better player. Wines and Heppell I'd argue will have marginally worse careers than Dunkley when it's all said and done.

A simple way would be to look at Brownlow votes polled and pick 7 and 8 together for an average career roughly equate to what Dunkley should equate to the rest of the career, by the simple average of Brownlow votes per game over the rest of the career.
If I got 2 of wines/Heppell/Haynes instead of 1 Dunkley I’d be happy :)
 

geelong_crazy26

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There are players in Pick 7 & 8 in the last 10 drafts that I would easily take ahead of Dunkley now given what I know and have seen. a few of them are actual All Australians. It's a gamble either way. Dunkley has syndesmosis this year, who's to say that doesn't stick around and hamper him?

Dunkley is being valued on his potential of which I think he has a lot but he has not shown anything to warrant what was requested.

I do agree though as a contracted player it is the dogs right to request such a trade, as ridiculous as it is.
market value I would say myself and others based it off at the treloar and shiel trade which ended up being 2x firsts and a second rounder coming back.

is dunkley in the same bracket as these two is probably a question to ask? Unsure...

Is dunkley actually worth giving up two first rounders when essendon will be looking to rebuild?? I would actually say your probably better off hitting the draft looking for a gun elite kid as opposed to what dunkley offers.

potential to draft a selwood/boak or a jimmy bartel ( my geelong bias) is probably higher as opposed to bringing in dunkley as I wouldn’t classify him that level you could potentially pick up if you do your recruiting cards right
 

Golden_6

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agree on this. There is also an onus on the team trading the player to act in good and reasonable faith when trading. It is not all pinned on the team he is leaving for to “ stick em up and gimme everything you got” train robbery style mentality people seem to believe...
Could not disagree more on this part. How on earth is the team trading the player under contract expected to act in ‘good and reasonable faith’? How about the other club not go after players that are under contract? That would be acting in good and reasonable faith.

Essendon are within their right to have a crack at him, but we are under no duty to anyone but ourselves.
 

Red Black and Blue

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market value I would say myself and others based it off at the treloar and shiel trade which ended up being 2x firsts and a second rounder coming back.

is dunkley in the same bracket as these two is probably a question to ask? Unsure...

Is dunkley actually worth giving up two first rounders when essendon will be looking to rebuild?? I would actually say your probably better off hitting the draft looking for a gun elite kid as opposed to what dunkley offers.

potential to draft a selwood/boak or a jimmy bartel ( my geelong bias) is probably higher as opposed to bringing in dunkley as I wouldn’t classify him that level you could potentially pick up if you do your recruiting cards right
Market value when future trading opened up. Both of those trades have turned out to be massive mistakes for their respective clubs and should prove cautionary tales. If the player isn’t a bonafide Fyfe/Dangerfield level superstar they aren’t worth close to that asking price.
 

Hoges64

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Market value when future trading opened up. Both of those trades have turned out to be massive mistakes for their respective clubs and should prove cautionary tales. If the player isn’t a bonafide Fyfe/Dangerfield level superstar they aren’t worth close to that asking price.
Treloar wasn't the mistake, their Salary Cap management was. Or more correctly, Dayne Beams was their mistake, capitalised by overvaluing Grundy and especially De Goey.

Shiel, well, I still can't believe Essendon paid that for him. Not what they needed AND poor skills. Yeesh.
 

adogsfan5

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There’s been plenty of assumptions around the fact that the bombers and dogs would have been talking about price before Dunks even came out and announced he wanted to be traded. Assumptions that he came out and asked for a trade because we gave Essendon a price to work with.

I really don’t think that’s the case. I’m confident the dogs said no deal from the get go - Pickers came out and announced it to put some pressure on us and we just never caved. Dodo offered what he thought was fair at the time (that was Dunks value as an out of contract player) and he stuck to his guns too. Not the best way to play it but it is what it is. Nobody loses.
 

Red Black and Blue

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Treloar wasn't the mistake, their Salary Cap management was. Or more correctly, Dayne Beams was their mistake, capitalised by overvaluing Grundy and especially De Goey.

Shiel, well, I still can't believe Essendon paid that for him. Not what they needed AND poor skills. Yeesh.
Treloar could have been Harry McKay and Jarrod Berry/Jy Simpkin and 800k spare for a free agent. The value in high cost trades just isn’t there.
 

HirdsTheWord

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There’s been plenty of assumptions around the fact that the bombers and dogs would have been talking about price before Dunks even came out and announced he wanted to be traded. Assumptions that he came out and asked for a trade because we gave Essendon a price to work with.

I really don’t think that’s the case. I’m confident the dogs said no deal from the get go - Pickers came out and announced it to put some pressure on us and we just never caved. Dodo offered what he thought was fair at the time (that was Dunks value as an out of contract player) and he stuck to his guns too. Not the best way to play it but it is what it is. Nobody loses.
If Dunkley was Out of Contract you wouldn't have been offered a 1st & 2021 2nd.......That offer was his "fair" value as a contracted player, the dogs (well within their rights) wanted stupid overs which meant changing the 2021 2nd to a 2021 1st.
 
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HirdsTheWord

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There’s been plenty of assumptions around the fact that the bombers and dogs would have been talking about price before Dunks even came out and announced he wanted to be traded. Assumptions that he came out and asked for a trade because we gave Essendon a price to work with.

I really don’t think that’s the case. I’m confident the dogs said no deal from the get go - Pickers came out and announced it to put some pressure on us and we just never caved. Dodo offered what he thought was fair at the time (that was Dunks value as an out of contract player) and he stuck to his guns too. Not the best way to play it but it is what it is. Nobody loses.
I reckon you are probably pretty spot on, dogs would have told us to GAGF until Dunkley made the request to leave.

Once that happened dogs probably told us what they wanted which was ridiculous enough that it was never really going to happen.

At the end of the day I blame JUH - if it wasn't for him Dunkley would be ours!!!
 

Doggies_13

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I agree with everything you said except bolded bit....

Essendon would have told Dunkley what their limit was prior to him nominating us. Getting a player to nominate you DOES NOT mean you sell the farm to get the player just out of principle. Essendon already offered overs on Dunkley to the Dogs and the Dogs were all within their right to reject and request absurd overs, but Essendon are also well within in their right to hold firm, like I said Dunkley would have known this. If Dodoro had of given up 2 x Top 10 Picks with one of those being our future first (This is reportedly what the Dogs were asking for) he would have been burned at the stake.

Like I said I think both clubs did what was best for them given the situation.
I disagree but that’s okay.

Not saying Essendon came away looking terrible, but Essendon knew the price the bulldogs had placed on Dunkley before he nominated them and players generally don’t nominate a club unless that club assures them they can get the deal done. My opinion is that Essendon probably thought Dunkley nominating them would lower the bulldogs asking price but the bulldogs held firm.

Now Essendon did the best things for their own long term future, as the bulldogs were asking overs but they did let the player down to a degree and that could possibly affected players nominating them in future. Doesn’t make Essendon look bad but does take the gloss off them to a degree.
 

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HirdsTheWord

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I disagree but that’s okay.

Not saying Essendon came away looking terrible, but Essendon knew the price the bulldogs had placed on Dunkley before he nominated them and players generally don’t nominate a club unless that club assures them they can get the deal done. My opinion is that Essendon probably thought Dunkley nominating them would lower the bulldogs asking price but the bulldogs held firm.

Now Essendon did the best things for their own long term future, as the bulldogs were asking overs but they did let the player down to a degree and that could possibly affected players nominating them in future. Doesn’t make Essendon look bad but does take the gloss off them to a degree.
I actually don't think Essendon did know the price prior to Dunkley nominating them.

I think that Essendon approached the dogs, who in turn told Essendon to GAGF and that he's not up for trade. I don't think a price was even discussed until Dunkley actually nominated Essendon, in which the dogs set a price they probably knew was never going to be paid.

Was only ever a win win for the dogs. Either keep Dunkley or get stupid ridiculous overs - pretty good spot to be in and pretty well played by sam powers..
 

Golden_6

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Dunkley has spoken on his failed trade:https://www.afl.com.au/video/525238...dal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1606167007001

Sounds like he is all in on the Doggies again
It's just a puff piece, something like this was always going to come out a couple of weeks after. Josh is an outstanding young man, and it's clear that he would always come back and give everything he has to the upcoming season.

It will be interesting in 12 months time if he's put away his ego and has decided to buy into winning another Bulldogs flag especially if we are in contention, or whether he still wants to go and chase the cash and be the main man in the midfield.
 

Laphroaig

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I have no issues for 2 firsts but not 2 x top 10’s especially next year which is a super stacked draft.
It's a bit of a diversion from the topic at hand, but I am really bemused that I keep reading this statement.

This years draft is commonly considered to be throwing darts blindfold, because the players have not had the chance to show their stuff in their draft year - a year when many of the best blossom and stand out from the pack as physical maturity and player development kick in.

In light of that, how on earth do we so confidently predict that kids another year younger are going to be a super draft?
 

HirdsTheWord

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It's a bit of a diversion from the topic at hand, but I am really bemused that I keep reading this statement.

This years draft is commonly considered to be throwing darts blindfold, because the players have not had the chance to show their stuff in their draft year - a year when many of the best blossom and stand out from the pack as physical maturity and player development kick in.

In light of that, how on earth do we so confidently predict that kids another year younger are going to be a super draft?
we don't know anything, as in you and me.

the guys who are paid to know (club recruiters/scouts etc) think next year is stacked so that's good enough for me.

The recruiters/scouts watch these kids from a young age, so regardless if they don't play in the U18 Cships or not they would still have a pretty good idea who the cream of the crop are already, and how deep the draft likely is.
 

Boyd oh Boyd

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If Dunkley was Out of Contract you wouldn't have been offered a 1st & 2021 2nd.......That offer was his "fair" value as a contracted player, the dogs (well within their rights) wanted stupid overs which meant changing the 2021 2nd to a 2021 1st.
What do you think his value is as an uncontracted player? Because even if you view this year as an off year, he had the 4th best average tackles in the league from a forward pocket. His best year was just a season ago and he got the 6th most tackles and 9th most contested possessions in the league. He hasn't got unproven potential to be elite, he's shown he can play at that level in the midfield. Treloar got two firsts an an uncontracted player leaving GWS, Dunkley would at least get a first and a second.
 

Laphroaig

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we don't know anything, as in you and me.

the guys who are paid to know (club recruiters/scouts etc) think next year is stacked so that's good enough for me.

The recruiters/scouts watch these kids from a young age, so regardless if they don't play in the U18 Cships or not they would still have a pretty good idea who the cream of the crop are already, and how deep the draft likely is.
Still doesn't make sense to me.

The vibe that this year's draft is a crapshoot because of the lack of exposed form comes from the same sources.
 

HirdsTheWord

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What do you think his value is as an uncontracted player? Because even if you view this year as an off year, he had the 4th best average tackles in the league from a forward pocket. His best year was just a season ago and he got the 6th most tackles and 9th most contested possessions in the league. He hasn't got unproven potential to be elite, he's shown he can play at that level in the midfield. Treloar got two firsts an an uncontracted player leaving GWS, Dunkley would at least get a first and a second.
If we was uncontracted I think he's worth a single top 10 first round, nothing added. Dunkley has had 1 good year, maybe that's because bevo has been playing him out of position, could also be because he had syndesmosis, I dunno, but you can only judge on what he's delivered.

Mind you that's just my opinion. I'm a nobody.

People forget how good Treloar was in 2014 & 2015 in his last 2 years at GWS, also Pretty sure Collingwood got a second round pick back in the deal.
 

Outback Footy

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If I got 2 of wines/Heppell/Haynes instead of 1 Dunkley I’d be happy :)
Exactly right. Which is why it was entirely reasonable of the dogs to ask for 2 first rounders in order for us to be "happy" to let Josh go with 2 years still to run on his contract.
Your logic shows the fallacy of your argument that he wasnt worth 2 first rounders. Your club was trying to wrestle him away from his current employer who didnt want to lose him. Your club had to make his current employer happy. Instead you managed to make him publicly commit to a change and then wouldnt negotiate beyond what was clearly a winning position for you. Like for like wasnt good enough in this instance (and of course no guarantee that 1 first rounder would equate as another Josh), Bombers had to offer up enough for us to be happy to see him go. The "potential" of two guns, like wines/heppel/haynes would have been enough. The 50/50 chance that 1 pick offered, against the guaranteed product which is jOsh was simply not good enough to pry him loose.
You consistently fail to acknowledge that Essendon had to make Bulldogs happy for this to happen ie meet our demand which never changed by all reports. Refusal to do so was just sh*t from Dodo.
 

Outback Footy

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If we was uncontracted I think he's worth a single top 10 first round, nothing added. Dunkley has had 1 good year, maybe that's because bevo has been playing him out of position, could also be because he had syndesmosis, I dunno, but you can only judge on what he's delivered.

Mind you that's just my opinion. I'm a nobody.

People forget how good Treloar was in 2014 & 2015 in his last 2 years at GWS, also Pretty sure Collingwood got a second round pick back in the deal.
Fine, if he was uncontracted he might only be worth 1 FR pick. Now what do you add to that to prise him out of a contract with 2 years still to run with a club that clearly still wants him.
The onus on this trade happening was entirely with Dodo and he failed to deliver. Failed to deliver Dunks to your club and failed to deliver for the bloke hed convinced to nominate and stick his neck on the line. Really poor form from Dodo.

And I agree that keeping the picks is the best option for your club btw. But Dodo had a responsibility to make that trade happen, after setting it up in the first place, and it was only ever going to happen by paying overs.
 

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