- Dec 14, 2015
- AFL Club
Difference is they didn’t cough that up when they were bottom 6 after losing key players, a rookie coach and with no discernible game plan overpaying for cream is not the same thing as overpaying for cake.Richmond also paid a fair bit for Caddy who is playing his best football at Richmond.
Practically every team who has won a Grand Final in recent memory seem to have paid "overs" at the trade table for a player or two as they view list management as more important than needing to "win" every individual trade.
Richmond finished bottom 6 2016 (13th) and traded out Brett Delideo at the end of the year, and came extremely close to sacking Dimma. That trade period was the one in which Presta and Caddy were traded in.Difference is they didn’t cough that up when they were bottom 6 after losing key players, a rookie coach and with no discernible game plan overpaying for cream is not the same thing as overpaying for cake.
And I’m saying you draft the cake and then pay a premium for cream later.Richmond finished bottom 6 2016 (13th) and traded out Brett Delideo at the end of the year, and came extremely close to sacking Dimma. That trade period was the one in which Presta and Caddy were traded in.
They also didn't target a contracted player, then low-ball the other team with an offer they wouldn't have accepted themselves. It's actually a good example in the difference in trading strategies of two clubs in a similar position.
Dunkley is cake, not cream.
I don't think it was stupid at all - on and off the field Dunkley would the the perfect fit for Essendon.And I’m saying you draft the cake and then pay a premium for cream later.
If you pay a premium for a couple of slices of cake you are still a couple of slices short and have no need of cream.
Richmond of 2016 had been 5th, 8th and 5th in the previous three years, they already had Dusty, Cotchin, Riewoldt and Rance on their list and in their prime. Sure that year was low but what they did at the end of it got the bones of a finals team that they already had into a position to contend the following year.
We currently have a retirement village in defence and a crèche up forward, most of our key players who have played in finals are gone, as is our coach (he was already going anyway).
Where we are now is more akin to Richmond circa 2012.
And yes, we lured a contracted player. Stupid wasn’t it?
Many coaches believe that "you build from the inside out" - if we're talking cake, I'd say it is absence - not abundance - that is the issue with Essendon's midfield.To take the analogy further, you have so much cake that it doesn’t fit in the midfield tin and you have to either take a piece out and put it in a different box or leave it on the bench to go stale.
Meanwhile we have a half full midfield tin and desperately need some more cake to fill it, and we have a couple of coupons to get some more slices.
Knowing that you have the whip hand, you’ve asked for two tokens for one slice that doesn’t fit in the box, when we could use our tokens to get two slices in the draft.
So of course we said no, and now you’re rearranging your tins trying to fit all the pieces in so they don’t go stale.
Meanwhile you could probably do with some cream but don’t have the tokens for it atm.
In this particular case it appears to be a whole of club decision on what we were willing to pay and Dodoro has respected that, which I think is better than having someone go rogue. Richardson came over the top of him in the Shiel deal – which obviously didn’t work out that well for us considering the price he coughed up, but we seem to have learned from that.the weird way Essendon fans so fervently defend Dodoro is baffling.
There is some criticism of Dodoro, but the defence of his trading this year and last is strident, and it's not one or two isolated examples.And the comments about what other Essendon supporters think are... well firstly, I’m one Essendon supporter and I don’t think that. Secondly, I’m not convinced many other Essendon supporters think that, in my experience he gets roasted a lot. Thirdly, you’re probably experiencing a few trolls that rather enjoy the tizzy everyone gets into about Dodoro at trade week. It’s like a bigfooty/AFL media obsession. But I wouldn’t say that their enjoyment of it is representative of what Essendon supporters (who are many with varied opinions) think in general.
Again, refer previous comments about Dodoro not valuing his own deal as enough.Yes, which is why we’re not buying one slice for the price of two.
There is criticism of the list build. There is criticism of the funny buggers he plays sometimes. There is criticism of the retention rate. There is criticism of what was paid for Shiel. There is criticism for trading out of 2017, 2018 and 2019 drafts when we needed to build. The 2011 draft we bombed out completely. Other times we’ve taken good players when great players were availableThere is some criticism of Dodoro, but the defence of his trading this year and last is strident, and it's not one or two isolated examples.
.. yet when discussing his actions here, there are no criticisms from Essendon supporters, only defenders.There is criticism of the list build. There is criticism of the funny buggers he plays sometimes. There is criticism of the retention rate. There is criticism of what was paid for Shiel. There is criticism for trading out of 2017, 2018 and 2019 drafts when we needed to build. The 2011 draft we bombed out completely. Other times we’ve taken good players when great players were available
I think supporters of most teams are a little reticent, reluctant to eat their own in public (cake or teams, you choose)... yet when discussing his actions here, there are no criticisms from Essendon supporters, only defenders.
I'm not going to wander onto a team board and engage in criticism of a team as it's rarely (if ever) welcomed. This is the area for it, and in general I don't believe Dodoro has negotiated in good faith in this instance by refusing to make an offer that in any way reflects the reality of chasing a contracted player who is rated highly on and off the field by the club he targeted.
I don't think there's anything more to be said, unless you have a cake recipe that is at least a little healthy (then I'm all ears).
There is pleeenty of criticism for Dodoro regarding Daniher. Many believed we should have traded Daniher last year instead of holding onto him. Plenty of criticism for the Shiel trade. Most Essendon fans also believed he unnecessarily made the Fantasia trade complicated.There is some criticism of Dodoro, but the defence of his trading this year and last is strident, and it's not one or two isolated examples.
Again, refer previous comments about Dodoro not valuing his own deal as enough.
The problem I have with this argument is:He’s your 5th choice inside mid mate
I have to argue point 1.The problem I have with this argument is:
People keep banging on that Dunkley isn't in the best XXX mids in the league - where the hell are the Bombers mids rated ???
1) He'd be Essendon's best midfielder - by a street.... Regardless of where he sits in the pecking order for us, he's miles in front of anyone Essendon have in that role.
2) Essendon have been proven not be able to draft midfielders, inside ones in particular. By contrast (and we are terrible at drafting key defenders - so we have our weaknesses too !!) - we have shown that we can draft midfielders.
So what you are saying is - you'll use the same strategy this year - to draft more midfielders (which by your success rate will not achieve the desired objective) - rather than actually grab one that can fill the gaps in your list.
Yes - you can argue the price is too high - but based upon history - you have got Merrett (who is good but very outside) and Heppell (average to good, injury hasn't helped) - in the last 10 years who are better than average AFL standard mids. McGrath is one who may get there this year. So the chance of those picks actually solving your problems in this area is close to zero.
Having said all that and waffled on for a while - we won't actually know the outcome for a few years anyway.....
I've taken rucks out - but I agree - that Draper could be very good for you which I've said elsewhere.I have to argue point 1.
Merrett & Shiel are better than Dunkley.
He'd be our best inside mid, i'll give you that.
And he'd complete us nicely.
I would have offered 8 & F1 for Dunkley and some decent change (F2, maybe 14 and we assist with the JUH points similar to the Treloar deal)
F1 might well be top 5 next year, but what we'd want from that pick is exactly what Dunkley gives us now
And perhaps helps us convince Merrett to stay.
Draper Dunkley Shiel
Merrett McGrath Langford
Parish, Caldwell & picks 6 & 7 builds a nice midfield base to sustain for the next 8-10 years
agreeI've taken rucks out - but I agree - that Draper could be very good for you which I've said elsewhere.
I'd argue that Dunkley is better than Merrett and Shiel due to the standards and leadership he sets - which you clearly targeted him for.
I think you are being a bit optimistic in your midfield base. Caldwell has played 2 games or something. Parish and Langford (the former in particular) haven't developed anywhere near as quickly as you would have liked. Merrett may not be there in 12 months (although you can make the same argument for Dunkley too !!)
If you look at the reverse, if Merrett goes and Dunkley stays - which is your concern in the highlighted section - that Dunkley would have helped retain players for you in the future.
Draper, Shiel, McGrath, Langford, Parish and Caldwell - plus kids - that's not a midfield that will worry many sides...
As I think we've discussed elsewhere - this was the time to get the right player in - and you missed the chance by not offering the deal that would have made it work...
He's really not.He’s your 5th choice inside mid mate
No current season stats available
What was the deal then?Nope. Try again.
So you're aware that they wanted a future first but are discounting it coz you "think."What was the deal then?
Dogs wanted 2 first rounders
Dodo didn’t want to give more than 1
Ideally they wanted futures picks as first rounders in this draft would have been absorbed by JUH bid but I think they would have accepted 6 and 7 then flipped it