Josh Fraser

[Schulzenfest]

Lol. Are you 12?

 

[Stifler's mom]

I've pinched a nerve in my lower back a couple of times and wound up bed ridden for days, it can absolutely f@ck you up.

Those of you with low opinions on Fraser outside the club know nothing, he was recruited as a young skinny kid and forced into the first ruck position straight away with virtually no support or rest for his entire career at the Pies. Malthouse basically destroyed him bit by bit, forcing him to ruck against grown men with much bigger bodies. It's no wonder he's a crock now in his later career. A sad, sad waste of a promising forward/wingman.

We recruited Steve McKee to do the number 1 ruck job.
We all know that didn't end up well for us in so many ways.

NO WAY Frazer was ever going to make it as a forward or wingman.
Too slow and weak overhead. Ask Peter Bell.

 

[soyouthink10]

Sorry, no. If Collingwood didn't have him, then they would have never got as far as they did in the early 2000s. He was their only real ruck option and considering all the punishment he took without any support, he did an admirable job for his time at the pies both in the ruck and kicking key goals.

Hindsight is a brilliant thing looking back but he was very far from a disgraceful choice as the 1st pick.

I think that was more of a reflection of Collingwoods lack of depth for that particular position in a very good side than of the ability of Fraser.

 

[PieBeast]

on a not completely seperate issue, the guy couldnt play footy.

Had more natural talent than the bloke in your avatar.

 

[soyouthink10]

Had more natural talent than the bloke in your avatar.

DO you know how many people 'who have natural talent' that never even make it to the AFL? Many...People would take ARcher before Fraser any day of the week plus more

 

[PieBeast]

DO you know how many people 'who have natural talent' that never even make it to the AFL? Many...People would take ARcher before Fraser any day of the week plus more

Many would but Collingwood in the early 2000's wouldn't, we had enough of underwhelming footballers that tried hard as it was.

 

[soyouthink10]

Many would but Collingwood in the early 2000's wouldn't, we had enough of underwhelming footballers that tried hard as it was.

you need your head read dude,

 

[L_W_P]

Glenn Archer was a poor man's Nick Maxwell. Arch was a good player but let's not get overboard here. It's not like he was playing on gun forwards, one out, week after week. If he and Fraser were both 18 and going into this years draft, Josh would be a top 10 pick while Arch would be rookie list material.

Anyone can look good playing the 3rd man up role.

Being the number 1 ruck at 18 is unheard of, before and after Josh. Even a kid as talanted as Billy Longer, a guy that was rated as good a ruckman as Matty Kreuzer, isn't getting thrown to the wolves by Vossy because he knows the kid needs to develop. Kreuzer himself sits behind Warnock most games to avoid ending up broken like Fraser.

That Josh got to 200 speaks volumes about his drive, talent and character. If he had been developed and protected properly in his youth he would've ended up a 250 game plus, premiership player. Hell, after Bucks retired he was being talk up as the next skipper. It's not out of the question that he could've been a premiership captain.

That's what people should think about when they look back over his career.

 

[Parquet Court]

Very very average players don't get to play 200+ games anywhere, anytime.

Dean rice got 300 or so

Premiership medallions do not warrant good players, if cam mooney had ****ed his back after the nth premiership would he be remembered as a great player?

 

[Danny_CFC]

Coming from someone who has a picture of glen "shin boner of the millennium" archer in his av, it's a bit of a cop out.

Sure fraser was no star, but he was very serviceable. A bit like your overrated idol.

"most overrated player of the millennium" is a better fit for Archer.

 

[MarkT2]

History should look upon Josh Fraser as a very good footballer who for ten years never got any help. Malthouse destroyed him. Would have made an excellent second ruck. We needed a dinosaur in first ruck.

Imagine how many flags the Pies would have won if Damien Monkhorst was 15 years younger!!

Always thought Fraser would have been the ideal rd tall foward and second ruckman but that's along way from what you hope for from a number 1 pick. Don;t worry about Monkhorst, imagine if we'd taken Pavlich with pick 1 and then traded for a decent ruckmen at the time - there were a few that changed clubs over the early/mid 2000's.

 

[MarkT2]

Fraser was a very average tap ruckman in the middle but around the ground was an aerobic beast, equal to Jeff White in his prime.

Very few ruckman would keep up with him and that was the part of his game in where he gave Collingwood a lot of value.

Fraser could actually direct a tap and he was a smart footballer - which helps for a tap ruckman. The problem was he was thin, weak and not quite hard or agressive enough to play as a ruckman.

 

[Hellgood]

Fraser actually played a bloody good game in the 2002 Grand Final. Kicked three in the wet in a tough, tight, low scoring slog that went on all day. Had a solid career after that, not a great one, but still if Collignwood had got up in that game he would be considered a Grand Final hero.

 

[Tas]

Some players have a very low pain threshold, people will say they are soft but you can give two players the same injury and one player can play through it and another just physically can't. It is not all psychological, my doctor said I have a very high pain threshold, i can have some minor surgical done on me without any pain killers which would have another person writhing in pain. Physically people can handle different levels of pain and discomfort.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Some players have a very low pain threshold, people will say they are soft but you can give two players the same injury and one player can play through it and another just physically can't. It is not all psychological, my doctor said I have a very high pain threshold, i can have some minor surgical done on me without any pain killers which would have another person writhing in pain. Physically people can handle different levels of pain and discomfort.

I'm sure we all give a rats clacker about your alleged pain threshold.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yep. He gets shafted because he wasn't a dominating ruckman but he just never got the chance.

Fraser was the test case for guys like Ryder, Kreuzer, Leuenberger etc. What teams learned very quickly through Josh though was that they need protection. It's not like a young mid or KPP who can play a little more on the outside to protect themselves. Ruckmen get smashed. Sometimes 50 times a game they will jump face first into each other or grapple on the boundary line in a test of strength, and this isn't even counting the fact they are expected to take marks pushing forward/back as needed by their team.

Anyone who thinks that Fraser couldn't play is just being ignorant. Was he the best ruckman going around? No BUT he had that potential when drafted and if he had guys like Jeff White and Jason Ball protecting him for the first 5-6 years of his career like Darren Jolly did then maybe he could've lived up to it.

Maybe nof Jeff White. White and Fraser in fact were much the same as each other. But a Ball would have been fantastic.

 

[Tas]

I'm sure we all give a rats clacker about your alleged pain threshold.

You are a very boring person with boring posts, why do you even bother?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You are a very boring person with boring posts, why do you even bother?

You dont know the first thing about me.

Thats because I dont talk about myself.

 

[Tas]

You dont know the first thing about me.

Thats because I dont talk about myself.

Don't know, don't care. Sick of w***ers like you just posting dumb shit non-stop. Sick of it. You and the other morons can go on the ignore list, won't be losing anything worth reading at all. Adiós!

 

[L_W_P]

Maybe nof Jeff White. White and Fraser in fact were much the same as each other. But a Ball would have been fantastic.

I used White and Ball because while at Melbourne Jolly was behind Jeff White and at Sydney he was behind Jason Ball. This gave him a proper education as well as time to develop his body. Wasn't meaning that the Pies needed these guys specifically, just highlight the different development paths of the Pies #1 ruckman of the last few years.

1999 - Interestingly though the Pies could've nabbed Ball as he was traded from the Eagles to the Swans for picks 11 and 41. The Pies could've probably got the deal done for pick 3. John Barnes was drafted by Essendon with pick 59 but I think he was set on going there and nowhere else.

2000 - The following year the Saints picked up Matt Capuano in a straight swap for Joe McLaren. I think the Pies could've made a better offer.

2001 - Greg Stafford went from the Swans to the Tigers at the end of 2001 but it took Nick Daffy and pick 17. Not sure the pies could top that.

After this the Pies were playing in Grand Finals so Mick was more than entitled to think he was on the right path.

By 2007/08 though it was clear the Fraser needed help. Chris Bryan and Cam Cloke didn't cut it. They traded for Cam Wood who probably took a little longer than hoped but he is still only 25. Having been behind the likes of Jamie Charman, Darren Jolly and even Fraser himself, it'll be interesting to see if Cam can forge a decent career in the back end.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I used White and Ball because while at Melbourne Jolly was behind Jeff White and at Sydney he was behind Jason Ball. This gave him a proper education as well as time to develop his body. Wasn't meaning that the Pies needed these guys specifically, just highlight the different development paths of the Pies #1 ruckman of the last few years..

Fraser didnt lack education or time to develop. He just wasnt big enough. No amount of developing was going to change that. He spend his whole career palying out of position. He shoudl have been the mobile goalkicking second ruck, the support act to a big bodied Clark Keating type ruckman.

The club failed Fraser. Not the other way around.