List Mgmt. Josh Kelly to North II

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King Corey

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All true, and in the case of two of them, they were 100% convinced until their clubs pulled out the cheque books and "joined in the chorus". Martin & Gaff were packed up and gone.

Josh's situation is a little different.
The fuzzy salary cap is a thing of wonder. When you're lucky enough to have one.
 

Snake_Baker

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The fuzzy salary cap is a thing of wonder. When you're lucky enough to have one.
This is why the culture of our footy club is so crucial to our survival, young men have to want to play for North because we are different, and I'm not referring to the "woke" bullshit that has clamped itself on to the place either.
 

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Shermanator

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Mar 23, 2001
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They reported over several years that we made big money offers to Andrew Gaff, Dustin Martin and Josh Kelly (multiple times) but didn't convince any of them to move clubs.
aka ‘bigfish-gate’

Which generated just as much clickbait as ‘boristhechicken-gate’
 

Snake_Baker

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I couldn't give a flying fu** about what outsiders think, it's when our own gobble up this crap and behave like scorned lovers that the (see below) emanates from my mind.

 

King Corey

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I couldn't give a flying fu** about what outsiders think, it's when our own gobble up this crap and behave like scorned lovers that the (see below) emanates from my mind.

I wouldn't say I've been as ambivalent as you on the "big fish got away" perception thing but am coming around a bit on it.

In any other sphere you'd swing the bat every time without shame. A theatre production isn't going to avoid chasing some name performer because they missed out on another one. A hospital isn't going to not approach a top surgeon because the last one they approached knocked them back.

But the media have spun it in such a way that (and I'm guilty of getting gunshy as a result as I'm sure others are too) that because North Melbourne missed out on X players they are embarrassing themselves to try it on again.
 

Engimal v3

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I love that North isn't embarrassed to go after the biggest and the best. That's what I expect of them.

However there's only so many times I can hear the "they were about to come to us until [excuse]" and still believe it. I think in all cases, the player we were targeting was from a club in a better on and off field position. Maybe they just didn't want to come here, and that's fine.
 

Firestarter

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I love that North isn't embarrassed to go after the biggest and the best. That's what I expect of them.

However there's only so many times I can hear the "they were about to come to us until [excuse]" and still believe it. I think in all cases, the player we were targeting was from a club in a better on and off field position. Maybe they just didn't want to come here, and that's fine.
Which is why I prefer literal silence until North tells us things.
 

kangatime

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This is why the culture of our footy club is so crucial to our survival, young men have to want to play for North because we are different, and I'm not referring to the "woke" bullshit that has clamped itself on to the place either.
Interesting. In your humble view, what cultural traits/characteristics should we be developing that set us apart from the other clubs, yet attract 20-25 year olds?
 

King Corey

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Interesting. In your humble view, what cultural traits/characteristics should we be developing that set us apart from the other clubs, yet attract 20-25 year olds?
To extract the assumption within the question, do you see unique North Melbourne cultural traits as mutually exclusive with factors that please 20-25 year olds?
 

kangatime

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To extract the assumption within the question, do you see unique North Melbourne cultural traits as mutually exclusive with factors that please 20-25 year olds?
Mutually exclusive? Of course not. But what is uniquely NMFC? The underdog? Never beaten? There are other underdog clubs. And the "never beaten" tag is rubbish. Our percentage since our last premiership would question this. We're no longer the club that trains out of demountables and could say 10kg weights weigh the same no matter how shiny they are. We're a profession organisation that strives for success...just like 17 other clubs.

As for the "woke" bullshit, if we didn't have a culture of inclusiveness then you'd find not only would we not attract players, we would have young players walking out in droves.

So, my question is, how can we set ourselves apart to attract young men? Tef has made the sweeping statement, but can he elaborate or is it just more bollocks from your sweetheart?
 

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kangatime

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You're playing a one man emotive game there mate.

You asked a question that came with a very large embedded supposition. I called it out and now you're speculating on my love life.
that's crap. I made a statment with an embedded supposition? Thats exactly what I was calling Tef out on.

Tef made the call that we need cultural change to attract young men. I want to know if he has any idea what traits would be attractive to 20-25 year olds.

And yes, by picking up on some so called supposition of mine, while ignoring Tefs show that you have an online crush. Don't worry, I'm not the only one that thinks it!
 

Engimal v3

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Mutually exclusive? Of course not. But what is uniquely NMFC? The underdog? Never beaten? There are other underdog clubs. And the "never beaten" tag is rubbish. Our percentage since our last premiership would question this. We're no longer the club that trains out of demountables and could say 10kg weights weigh the same no matter how shiny they are. We're a profession organisation that strives for success...just like 17 other clubs.
This is one thing that bothers me about North. For the last 20 years, our whole identity has been "remember who we were last century?". There's no real point of difference between us and other clubs, other than that we're poorer and get less media attention.
 

RobZombie

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So, my question is, how can we set ourselves apart to attract young men? Tef has made the sweeping statement, but can he elaborate or is it just more bollocks from your sweetheart?
I've said this before but it bears repeating. Players move (or stay) for whatever combination of money, success and lifestyle they personally value, and they're entitled to value those things however they want. We've arranged our salary cap to make sure that players won't have to take a pay cut to come to us. Since 2011 we've been in a position to make sure players have all the resources to succeed - facilities, coaching, medical, etc. The perceived position of the list to be ready to contend has been a problem, especially post 2016. But NDS and Higgo both came over in 2014/15 with a view to helping improve a fairly strong list.

Lifestyle is the interesting one. If I'm selling North it's that you get to play in the home of football but without the pressure and media scrutiny of the big 4, you get to live in the hip inner city close to the spiritual home if you want instead of having to be near Tullamarine or Moorabbin or Dingley or Geelong, and every player I've personally spoken to who has come from another club in the past half dozen years speaks really highly of the culture of the place. Of course if a player is dead set on media street and Richmond/Collingwood sized crowds or playing for Clarko there's nothing we can do about that.

Honestly, it's a long winded way of saying the one thing we can do anything about that has to improve is perceived prospects of success. Which is the bleeding obvious.
 

kangatime

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Lifestyle is the interesting one. If I'm selling North it's that you get to play in the home of football but without the pressure and media scrutiny of the big 4, you get to live in the hip inner city close to the spiritual home if you want instead of having to be near Tullamarine or Moorabbin or Dingley or Geelong, and every player I've personally spoken to who has come from another club in the past half dozen years speaks really highly of the culture of the place. Of course if a player is dead set on media street and Richmond/Collingwood sized crowds or playing for Clarko there's nothing we can do about that.

Honestly, it's a long winded way of saying the one thing we can do anything about that has to improve is perceived prospects of success. Which is the bleeding obvious.
good post.

I think if you spoke to anyplayer that went to a club bar * during the drug epidemic and the GC you would get a very similar response. Its very unlikely a player is going to say, sh*t, wish I hadn't come, the place is a shambles.
 

DesertRoo

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This is one thing that bothers me about North. For the last 20 years, our whole identity has been "remember who we were last century?". There's no real point of difference between us and other clubs, other than that we're poorer and get less media attention.
Shaw gets it..
Teams will remember playing us. Hard at the ball and the man.
it’s something that Ziebell and co have been crying out for..

I’m sure there will be a few players that would rather play with us then against us in the next few years.

if you hurt them, they will come.
 

RobZombie

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good post.

I think if you spoke to anyplayer that went to a club bar * during the drug epidemic and the GC you would get a very similar response. Its very unlikely a player is going to say, sh*t, wish I hadn't come, the place is a shambles.
Couple of things in that:

Admittedly, a number of these guys were players that we threw a lifeline - Nahas, Pittard, Campbell, FazRaz. So to an extent yes, they'd be happy to land anywhere. But in a couple of cases conversations were a fair bit more candid than the standard Heath-coached party line, and no reason to believe it's not genuine.
 

The Filth Wizard

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Couple of things in that:

Admittedly, a number of these guys were players that we threw a lifeline - Nahas, Pittard, Campbell, FazRaz. So to an extent yes, they'd be happy to land anywhere. But in a couple of cases conversations were a fair bit more candid than the standard Heath-coached party line, and no reason to believe it's not genuine.
I do agree but wouldn't mind seeing Pittard's name removed there. Yes, he was steak knives but he wasn't in any danger of being turfed by Port. He had a very decent contract there.
 

King Corey

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that's crap. I made a statment with an embedded supposition? Thats exactly what I was calling Tef out on.

Tef made the call that we need cultural change to attract young men. I want to know if he has any idea what traits would be attractive to 20-25 year olds.

And yes, by picking up on some so called supposition of mine, while ignoring Tefs show that you have an online crush. Don't worry, I'm not the only one that thinks it!
Yes I think you did it. Maybe Tef did in his original statement too.

The question of attracting 20-25 year old players (unsure why the abitrary age bracket but that's a separate matter) has some merit but your wording "what cultural traits/characteristics should we be developing that set us apart from the other clubs, yet attract 20-25 year olds" implied that said traits might somehow run contradictory to attracting this demographic.

I asked you to explain why you thought this and since then you've meandered into speculating about my preferences.
 

kangatime

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Yes I think you did it. Maybe Tef did in his original statement too.

The question of attracting 20-25 year old players (unsure why the abitrary age bracket but that's a separate matter) has some merit but your wording "what cultural traits/characteristics should we be developing that set us apart from the other clubs, yet attract 20-25 year olds" implied that said traits might somehow run contradictory to attracting this demographic.

I asked you to explain why you thought this and since then you've meandered into speculating about my preferences.
no it doesn't. To attract players to us, based on culture attraction as stated by Tef, we would need to offer something other clubs aren't offering. Nothing is "running contradictory". You are trying to read something into it that isn't there.
 

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