Judd v Bartel

[Reckoner Tiger]

I think it's Judd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bartel personally, but some of BF and nearly every Geelong supporter disagree it seems. They think Bartel is better than Judd, judging by this poll. Each to their own I suppose.

Yes, because clearly only Geelong fans must be voting for Bartel. You're just mad because your troll is failing, people are voting against what you thought.

 

[Lasso]

Judd comfortably. He had a heap more touches and 55 more tackles this yr.
Its obvious the only thing people here are judging this on is the finals and in particular JB's GF (sorry but he still had 7 turnovers and only 2 tackles, IMO Selwood should have got it).
Check out his other finals, they were actually hardly better than judds.

People are hugely underselling the importance of playing well before the finals as well, as this helps determine whether ur team may finish 4th or 5th.

Bartels awesome, I love him but he's just not quite the level of Judd.

 

[hk89]

Bigfooty posters have the memory span of goldfish.

I love Bartel as a player, but Judd is still clearly better, despite Bartel being a much better kick and mark. Judd is simply much more valuable to his club overall in the roles they are both currently playing. One great GF game does not suddenly propel Bartel ahead of Judd. In their current roles, Judd smashes Bartel in clearances and contested possessions. Sure, this is partly due to the role Bartel is given , as he is no slouch in those departments, but this year, Judd had a much greater contribution to his team success across all games than Bartel did. From that point of view Bartel isn't even in front of Murphy, and is more comparable to Gibbs. Judd was brownlow favourite, and Bartel wasn't for a reason. Ok, so Bartel was very important in Geelong winning on Saturday, but Judd won a lot more games on his own this year than Bartel did. It is not Judd's fault the rest of his team mates were not good enough to get them into a GF. How hard was Jimmy tagged compared to Judd during the finals series (and most games this year)?

 

[Rockford]

But it's 50/50 in the poll at the moment. Obviously a lot of Geelong people think Bartel is better.

And a lot of Carlton people have voted for Judd. What's your point?

I think it's Judd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bartel personally, but some of BF and nearly every Geelong supporter disagree it seems. They think Bartel is better than Judd, judging by this poll. Each to their own I suppose.

We know what you think. Almost everyone who initially replied to your thread saying that they'd take Bartel was met with a response from you telling them they were wrong Sucks when a troll goes so horribly wrong, doesn't it? Maybe if you try harder, it'll turn around. What you should do is count up the number of Geelong supporters who have voted for Bartel... and the number of Carlton supporters who have voted for Judd.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Bigfooty posters have the memory span of goldfish.

I love Bartel as a player, but Judd is still clearly better, despite Bartel being a much better kick and mark. Judd is simply much more valuable to his club overall in the roles they are both currently playing. One great GF game does not suddenly propel Bartel ahead of Judd. In their current roles, Judd smashes Bartel in clearances and contested possessions. Sure, this is partly due to the role Bartel is given , as he is no slouch in those departments, but this year, Judd had a much greater contribution to his team success across all games than Bartel did. From that point of view Bartel isn't even in front of Murphy, and is more comparable to Gibbs. Judd was brownlow favourite, and Bartel wasn't for a reason. Ok, so Bartel was very important in Geelong winning on Saturday, but Judd won a lot more games on his own this year than Bartel did. It is not Judd's fault the rest of his team mates were not good enough to get them into a GF. How hard was Jimmy tagged compared to Judd during the finals series (and most games this year)?

Thank you. Finally a sensible post.

I thought this was a really interesting thread topic, since it was based on 2012 onward. Glad to see someone taking it seriously. Thank you

 

[murphhh]

Bartel is definitely a great player, as shown by his performance on Saturday. Although in saying that i don't think this poll should even be close.

 

[unstable punt]

Still Judd but just for 2 more years, Judds a matchwinner but by the time he's 30 he will be on the way down and probably quickly.

 

[Grizzly_82]

Judd is incredibly overrated, good player but he was only a great player at West Coast.

Bartel will win another Brownlow before his career is finished, Judd will be finished before 2014.

 

[Rockford]

Glad to see someone taking it seriously. Thank you

Did you count up all the Cats supporters who voted for Bartel to discount their votes? You should, if you're taking it seriously.

Just looks like more people would prefer a triple Premiership medalist, Brownlow medalist and Norm Smith medalist with a reputation for delivering in big games and who took less money to stay with his original club than you realised. Also, he never eye gouged anyone

The real irony being, your club could've had Judd. But you took Hodge as your priority pick instead.

 

[Dumpstar]

Judd > Bartel.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I voted for Bartel. I barrack for Geelong. Just a coincidence, I swear.

 

[jimmy.h]

Bartel twice the player as Hodge? That's why Hodge has 1 more AA & 2 more B&Fs. They both have a Norm Smith now. Maybe Jimmy can win a B&F someday. And why bring up Hodge? This thread is about Judd & Bartel. Don't try and derail it. Stick to topic.

You really think best and fairests in sides that finished 7th and 14th are really celebrating? Since being drafted, Hodge's side has finished lower than Bartel's in 8 of the 10 seasons. I really don't think comparing their B&F performances is a like for like comparison. Hodge wouldn't have been close to the Geelong B&F in any year other than 2010.

 

[blues4flag]

This thread is laughable. Judd was the All Australian captain and was top 5 in the majority of awards this season.

Bartel wasn't in the AA squad of 40 and while he was brilliant in the GF, past and present Judd's been clearly the superior player.

I don't care how versatile Bartel is, the fact is Judd has far more impact on games than Bartel does.

 

[blues4flag]

Judd is incredibly overrated, good player but he was only a great player at West Coast.

Bartel will win another Brownlow before his career is finished, Judd will be finished before 2014.

The same Bartel who's polled a maximum of 13 votes since he won his first won? He hasn't managed 10 games in either of the last two seasons, FFS.

He hasn't won a best and fairest in his career.

 

[Donakebab]

Ablett was the AA captain, Judd was named vice captain.

 

[tasmanlvr]

I'd rather have Bartel for the all-round ability...

 

[Sttew]

Moving forward, which player would you prefer in your side for 2012 and beyond?

For me, it's a no brainer and I would choose Judd. Thoughts?

If it's a no-brainer why the post?

Bartel is my favorite player at Geelong. He is a heart and soul man who has committed to the Cats for life. But to compare him with the bald headed mercenary ( Judd that is) is unfair. Judd is a spectacular player. Jimmy just does his thing.

Jimmy played a massive role in our 09 premiership, and again in 11.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

The same Bartel who's polled a maximum of 13 votes since he won his first won? He hasn't managed 10 games in either of the last two seasons, FFS.

Completely irrelevant, Bartel hasn't played as a blue chip midfielder since 2007. Has sacrificed his award winning chances for the good of the team.

 

[blues4flag]

Completely irrelevant, Bartel hasn't played as a blue chip midfielder since 2007. Has sacrificed his award winning chances for the good of the team.

It is not irrelevant at all. I love Bartel but Judd's a better midfielder than Bartel is an anything.

Great role players are rewarded by All Australians. Corey Enright won a B&F from a HBF. Bartel has zero. Nor has he even been deemed good enough to make the All Australian squad of 40.

Yet you're arguing he's been better than Judd? Farcical.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It is not irrelevant at all. I love Bartel but Judd's a better midfielder than Bartel is an anything.

Great role players are rewarded by All Australians. Corey Enright won a B&F from a HBF. Bartel has zero. Nor has he even been deemed good enough to make the All Australian squad of 40.

Bit hard to be AA when you play HBF one week, tagger the next, and CHF the next.

Bartel is better at just about everything other than being a midfielder, and he's not far behind at that.

Yet you're arguing he's been better than Judd? Farcical.

Show me where I'm doing that? I'm just not signing up to your 'more AA = better player' schtick.

 

[hk89]

Those voting for Bartel should try the thought experiment of putting Bartel in Carlton's side and Judd in Geelongs side. With the other big bodied mids around him, Judd would dominate even more than he already does. If Bartel tried to contribute at the same level as Judd does at Carlton, he would get the shit tagged out of him, and would not be able to perform at the same level Judd has, simply because Judd is better. Bartel is definitely a better shot at goal, but when you are #1 for total scoring assists, as Judd is, who really cares? (Bartel is at #40 in between Garlett and Liam Shiels). Bartel is an amazing player, but is not close to Judd (or Ablett) on total impact, by any objective measure.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Judd is and always has been a better player when not injured.

Quite a few posters on BF seem to have the memories of goldfish.

First 3/4 of the season Judd was a certainty for the Brownlow.

Yet Jimmy plays 1 great game and posters forget this.

Going forward I would take Judd. Can consistently lift an average or great team like few other players.

 

[Rockford]

Bartel is at #40 in between Garlett and Liam Shiels.

Not too shabby for someone who played off the half back line for most of the season.

Bartel kicked 3 goals in the last GF. Judd has only ever kicked one goal in a GF.

 

[hk89]

Not too shabby for someone who played off the half back line for most of the season.

Yup, not too shabby at all, but the top clearance winning mids in the comp are more valuable than most HB line players. That is why most Hawks fans are happy when the coach can afford to play Hodge in the middle. It is great that Geelong has enough midfield depth to play Bartel off HB, but as a result he has less impact than Judd. In other words, in their current roles, Judd is a more valuable player.

Bartel kicked 3 goals in the last GF. Judd has only ever kicked one goal in a GF.

Bartel kicked 3 goals in a GF won by over 6 goals. He also kicked 2 goals in the Port Adelaide massacre. He kicked 0 goals in the loss to hawks, and 0 goals in the close game against Saints.

Judd has only kicked 1 GF goal, but did it in a game in which his team won by a point. In the GF he lost, where he kicked no goals, he had TWICE as many clearances as the next highest clearance player, and smashed everyone in contested possessions, oh , and won the Norm Smith in a losing team. So again, Judd considerably more valuable to his team overall than Bartel.

It is not even close to being close, which is why a bunch of people are calling this a troll. A more interesting comparison would be Hodge and Bartel (similar flexibility, and have some of the same strengths and weaknesses in comparison to Judd), but given Bartel just won a Norm Smith, and Hodge didn't play in a GF, I doubt he'd get many votes in a poll, hell, I bet Bartel would do well in a Leigh Matthews vs Bartel poll this week (but probably not next week, given the apparent memory span of most posters).

 

[mwt5150]

Bigfooty posters have the memory span of goldfish.

I love Bartel as a player, but Judd is still clearly better, despite Bartel being a much better kick and mark. Judd is simply much more valuable to his club overall in the roles they are both currently playing. One great GF game does not suddenly propel Bartel ahead of Judd. In their current roles, Judd smashes Bartel in clearances and contested possessions. Sure, this is partly due to the role Bartel is given , as he is no slouch in those departments, but this year, Judd had a much greater contribution to his team success across all games than Bartel did. From that point of view Bartel isn't even in front of Murphy, and is more comparable to Gibbs. Judd was brownlow favourite, and Bartel wasn't for a reason. Ok, so Bartel was very important in Geelong winning on Saturday, but Judd won a lot more games on his own this year than Bartel did. It is not Judd's fault the rest of his team mates were not good enough to get them into a GF. How hard was Jimmy tagged compared to Judd during the finals series (and most games this year)?

Interesting statement, given that had Carlton made it to the prelim this year, it would have been the result of Judd's team mates rather than him. As good as he is, he went missing from their biggest game in about a decade, and one massive quarter from him would have got them over the line.
As for the OP, I agree 100%. Judd has more upside moving forward, and I would prefer him. But I wouldn't give up Jimmy to get him. Your summation that he was poor in the "09 GF because he was goalless is the worst case of blinkers I've ever seen. Lenny Hayes was tearing us a new arse until Jim went to him and shut him down. Stats dont always mean everything.