jimmy.h
Club Legend
I was just checking the official AFL awards list and it claims that Simon Black won the 2003 Norm Smith Medal. I have emailed the AFL to inform them that I have been reliably informed that Chris Judd in fact won this award.
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Judd v Bartel
- Thread starter HyperAgressiveDonk
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I was just checking the official AFL awards list and it claims that Simon Black won the 2003 Norm Smith Medal. I have emailed the AFL to inform them that I have been reliably informed that Chris Judd in fact won this award.
I'm wondering if anyone is actually daft enough to believe this, or if you're just acting like a Bay-toff on the polls board for no good reason. WCE were offering Judd no less than anyone else.
As to the poll question, Judd without blinking an eye. Has been better for longer career wise and again this year. Bartel sure played well in the grannie (HAD not too far off with the Goddard effect) but Juddy has a career full of ripping it up in finals and higher season long impact. Lifts his fellow players and is a good club leader. Lulz at the majority passing on Judd ... it's like the 2001 draft all over again
The Spaniel
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it wasn't the norm smith, Judd won the Brownlow when Bartel was struggling to get a game
I'm wondering if anyone is actually daft enough to believe this, or if you're just acting like a Bay-toff on the polls board for no good reason. WCE were offering Judd no less than anyone else.
As to the poll question, Judd without blinking an eye. Has been better for longer career wise and again this year. Bartel sure played well in the grannie (HAD not too far off with the Goddard effect) but Juddy has a career full of ripping it up in finals and higher season long impact. Lifts his fellow players and is a good club leader. Lulz at the majority passing on Judd ... it's like the 2001 draft all over again
Except this year of course.
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Yes, probably the first really poor final he's ever played came this year, after an MVP winning season.
Sooo... going forward, given Bartel's versatility and the fact that he hasn't ever played a really poor Final and played his best Final in 2011 (not 2005 like Juddy), you'd take Bartel in 2012? Me too.
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Eth
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The thread does say from 2012 onwards. If I had to choose between the two at the start of their careers, it's Judd, but answering the question put forward, Bartel. Judd seems to have lost that explosive yard of pace, whereas Bartel is still as good as he was in 2007.
By every objective measure, bar one game in October, Bartel is a fair bit off 2007.
I can see why you love Bartel, but that's some very poor reasoning on your part. Judd's just come off an MVP winning season and put on one of the best finals performances I've seen only last year; he'll no doubt continue to plod along at a higher level again next season and is an easy choice.
That's an impressive line of greater than symbol's, but saying shit is easy; where's the proof?
Contrary to your ill-conceived claim, Hodgepodge put up some Champion Data figures during the season that showed Judd ranked highest by average in finals and I think 4th highest in output increases between H&A and finals. It was pretty Impressive.
Quinz has put up this before ...
04 EF v Sydney- Our best player with 19 touches, 2 goals and 9 tackles
05 QF v Sydney- BOG clearly with 30 touches
05 PF v Adelaide- Probably our third best behind Kerr and Selwood
05 GF v Sydney- BOG, Norm Smith in a losing side
06 QF v Sydney- BOG by a mile with 34 touches and 2 goals
06 SF v Bulldogs- 2nd or 3rd best on ground, a lot of good players
06 PF v Adelaide- BOG or possibly just behind Cousins
06 GF v Sydney- Third best after Embley and Cox
07 QF v Port- Kicked two goals but really struggled with the groin
For Carlton
09 EF v Brisbane- BOG or second behind Black.
10 EF v Sydney - BOG
11 EF & SF - 19 & 17 touches. 72 & 90 CD pts. First "poor" finals games, though still better than Hodge last year for example.
Seems the weight of evidence is against you. Do you actually have anything other than words and greater than symbols to indicate otherwise? Because it seems pretty clear that Judd is one of the games better big game players.
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Should rephrase that: still looks as good.
The_Doctor
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A month ago Judd was the raging favourite for the Brownlow and Bartel had just plodded along all season. Then one game at the end of the year when Bartel plays well and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. It boggles the mind. Bartel wouldnt be in the top 30 players in the comp. Judd is top 3 clearly and many would argue number one.
HyperAgressiveDonk
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Yes. This is exactly what I have said. The majority of the general public are fickle and not very bright. Just like all that hype around Goddard last year.
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thats a premiershipless MVP winning season.............thats what judd and Carlton is all about...individual honours. Bartel 3 premierships.....Juudd 1. And dont bother retorting about Judds two Broenlows cause we all know the umpires are so obsessed with him he starts round one on 15 votes!
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.Every time Judd gets less than 25 touches he becomes a spud who nobody would want in their side.
Lets face it though he had a terrible year all Australian, mvp, 2nd in our BnF, 23 Brownlow votes..
I wouldn't want that plodder in my side
.Sarcasm aside hopefully Carlton can manage him better from now on, since we seem to work him off his feet.
Topper Harley
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Bartel=Judd >> Hodge for finals performers.
but these 3 would all be top 10 finals performers.
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you may have heard of a guy by the name of Paul Chapman
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Topper Harley
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I have, but I was just responding to the post I quoted.
For finals performers currently playing I'd rank them something like this.
1: Ablett
2: Judd
3: Black
4: Bartel
5: Kerr
6: Chapman
7: Pendlebury
8: Franklin
9: Hodge
10: Goodes
No doubt I've missed plenty, but theser guys are all finals guns.
I've left out blokes who step up in finals too, e.g Ottens, Hawkins, Kennedy (Syd)
HyperAgressiveDonk
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Hawkins wtf? He's played 2 good games in his career, and they both happen to be finals.
Lance Franklin averages nearly 4 goals a game in finals and has already kicked bags of 7 and 8 by 24 years old, should be higher. And you're telling me Daniel Kerr has done more than Luke Hodge in finals? What the ****? Luke Hodge has a Norm Smith, has turned in one the best finals displays I have ever seen against Adelaide in 2007 whilst playing injured, and was probably our best player this September. What has Daniel Kerr done to surpass that
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Good to see BF is consistent, last year
Goddard was the second coming of christ based on pretty much his GF1 performance, now it's Bartell, Bartell isn't fit to lick Judds bootlaces IMO, and he never will be either, Bartel's probably a top 20 player, Judds top 3.
Goddard was the second coming of christ based on pretty much his GF1 performance, now it's Bartell, Bartell isn't fit to lick Judds bootlaces IMO, and he never will be either, Bartel's probably a top 20 player, Judds top 3.
Relax. We understand your pain. Easy to denigrate a player that was best on ground against your club in a Grand Final. The pain will pass.
Not much point replying ad nauseam to HAD. You can keep suggesting anyone who doesn't share your opinion "isn't as bright [as you]" but the fact is there are more factors to which player you'd have in your side 2012 and beyond then how good the player has been in the past. Perhaps your inability to understand that suggest you're not as bright as you think you are
Topper Harley
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Hawkins wtf? He's played 2 good games in his career, and they both happen to be finals.
Lance Franklin averages nearly 4 goals a game in finals and has already kicked bags of 7 and 8 by 24 years old, should be higher. And you're telling me Daniel Kerr has done more than Luke Hodge in finals? What the ****? Luke Hodge has a Norm Smith, has turned in one the best finals displays I have ever seen against Adelaide in 2007 whilst playing injured, and was probably our best player this September. What has Daniel Kerr done to surpass that
Hawkins best games have come in finals, I'm just saying he steps up above his regular level.
Hodge has underperfomred in a few finals too, and I stand by Kerr above him. I had to leave out blokes like Reiwoldt, Hayes and Brown, all who are great finals performers, It's a tough top 10 to break in to.
Try and put together your own, and no doubt you'd have Hodge and Franklin 1 and 2,
the top 4 IMO pick themselves, after that it gets very tricky.
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Relax. We understand your pain. Easy to denigrate a player that was best on ground against your club in a Grand Final. The pain will pass.
Not much point replying ad nauseam to HAD. You can keep suggesting anyone who doesn't share your opinion "isn't as bright [as you]" but the fact is there are more factors to which player you'd have in your side 2012 and beyond then how good the player has been in the past. Perhaps your inability to understand that suggest you're not as bright as you think you are
Or maybe you aren't as bright as you think you are, And what does JImmy playing well against Collingwood have to do with it?, where did he come in the Brownlow?, how about the MVP?, did he even win his own BaF?, but everyone who disagrees with you is biased? Lol. Goddard syndrome mrk II
