Judd vs. Kouta

[40yearBLUE]

Great question. I've been thinking about it for a while now. And taking my man love for judd out of it, I really dont think you can compare the 2.

Kouta is the player modern day football is modeled on. Completely changed the recruiting process for all football clubs.

Judd is the best midfielder of all time. Hard as nails, never stops trying, a brilliant on-field leader. The whole side just lifts when he takes the game on. He is the main reason we are playing finals at the moment.

Thats my take on it anyway.

Dont we forget easily just how good Diesel was. As good as Judd is, Diesel is still my best mid ever. Also hard as nails, also never stopped trying, had vision beyond any player I ever saw play, in fact it changed the way I watched the game. I used to sit on the fence close to the action, but watching him move (and to where, 3 moves ahead of the game) made me want to watch the entire field so I started to enjoy being up high, moved to a spot in the Hawthorn (Pratt) stand at home and top deck southern at the G just to watch Diesels movements on the field.

But back on topic, I think we mark mids a bit harder than others because they are where the ball is most of the time. But I think you nailed it when you said Kouta became archetypal. Whenever someone changes the direction of the entire sport you have to mark them for it.

Kouta for mine. But the game isnt over yet. If Judd holds the cup up for us, it may sway votes back to him.

 

[hank31]

Great question. I've been thinking about it for a while now. And taking my man love for judd out of it, I really dont think you can compare the 2.

Kouta is the player modern day football is modeled on. Completely changed the recruiting process for all football clubs.

Judd is the best midfielder of all time. Hard as nails, never stops trying, a brilliant on-field leader. The whole side just lifts when he takes the game on. He is the main reason we are playing finals at the moment.

Thats my take on it anyway.

Pfft.. Bit of a stretch wouldn't ya say!

 

[bluepride]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLR8l0xeyQw

I remember this Brisbane game like it was yesterday, the Lions were coming back and I thought they would over run us.

Pressure was huge, and he kicks the goal to put it beyong doubt.

"Who else... but Chris Judd"- this is what puts him above Kouta.
Plays in a young side (hes not that old himself) and he just puts the boys on his shoulder and says "come with me".

Make it even more special, he decides to kick it on the left even though the pressure was huge.
The Messiahs bodys isnt even on the decline yet.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Pfft.. Bit of a stretch wouldn't ya say!

Oh this is going to be good, d'ya mean that Jobe has his measure? Bwahahahaha

 

[40yearBLUE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLR8l0xeyQw

I remember this Brisbane game like it was yesterday, the Lions were coming back and I thought they would over run us.

Pressure was huge, and he kicks the goal to put it beyong doubt.

"Who else... but Chris Judd"- this is what puts him above Kouta.
Plays in a young side (hes not that old himself) and he just puts the boys on his shoulder and says "come with me".

Make it even more special, he decides to kick it on the left even though the pressure was huge.
The Messiahs bodys isnt even on the decline yet.

You think Judd is better than Kouta because he kicked a goal against Brisbane? Do yourself a favor kid, get yourself a copy of the 99 prelim. And see if one of his last quarter goals dont change your mind. Or one of his marks at centre half back that stopped a certain essendon goal in the last dont change your mind. In fact any one of his 10 last quarter possessions that almost single handedly got us into the gf against the odds dont change your mind.

I dont mind you deciding Judd was better, its a subjective choice but at least base it on something more that a goal against Brisbane in a nothing game.

 

[hank31]

Oh this is going to be good, d'ya mean that Jobe has his measure? Bwahahahaha

No i mean that the best mid of all time is a stretch..

Plus you say he is as hard as nails.. pfft.. if he was playing in the 80s, he would be one of the biggest girls running around.

Judd doesn't even come close to the likes of Mathews, Voss, Hird, Bucks etc...

hahahaha im still giggling at you guys!

 

[bluepride]

You think Judd is better than Kouta because he kicked a goal against Brisbane? Do yourself a favor kid, get yourself a copy of the 99 prelim. And see if one of his last quarter goals dont change your mind. Or one of his marks at centre half back that stopped a certain essendon goal in the last dont change your mind. In fact any one of his 10 last quarter possessions.

I dont mind you deciding Judd was better, its a subjective choice but at least base it on something more that a goal against Brisbane in a nothing game.

Where does it say, in that exact post that Chris Judd is better than Kouta. I may have said "that kind of talk" may put him above.

FYI, I was at that game and probalby the only time i have seen the old man cry.
He was outstanding, I remember the big pack fly in the goal square and see Kouta on his back with the sherrin in hand and just wondering how he managed to get it.

Even though it was one of the great performances of an individual I have ever seen, I hope your not basing your opinion on one quarter of footy.

 

[40yearBLUE]

In fact correct me if I am wrong guys, but I think the reason that Wallace was trying to get around the Brown Dog in that frantic last minute and the Brown tackle that saved the game for us, was because from where Wallace was in the middle, a bomb from there would have meant that Kouta, who was marking everything would have marked it and he had to clear Kouta at chf and get it to the contest at FF and hope for a spill and snap.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Where does it say, in that exact post that Chris Judd is better than Kouta. I may have said "that kind of talk" may put him above.

FYI, I was at that game and probalby the only time i have seen the old man cry.
He was outstanding, I remember the big pack fly in the goal square and see Kouta on his back with the sherrin in hand and just wondering how he managed to get it.

Even though it was one of the great performances of an individual I have ever seen, I hope your not basing your opinion on one quarter of footy.

That would be this line Einstein:

"Who else... but Chris Judd"- this is what puts him above Kouta.

Dont tell me......iphone again?

 

[bluepride]

That would be this line Einstein:

"Who else... but Chris Judd"- this is what puts him above Kouta.

Dont tell me......iphone again?

I said, that way people talk about him will make him remembered as a greater play.

I dont recall him getting a "Who else.... but Kouta"
I dont recall the Hearald Sun title saying "The Return of the King"
I dont recall a painting of Jesus but with Judds face on it.

The perception of Judd (rightly or wrongly) is greater than that of Kouta.

Chris Judd will be remembered as far greater play in his prime than Kouta.
Im sure most people on the Bigfooty board would think that to.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Chris Judd will be remembered as far greater play in his prime than Kouta.
Im sure most people on the Bigfooty board would think that to.

So not only is English a bit of a problem for you, it seems you cant count either. If this thread is anything to go by, no, it is falling about 70:30 Kouta's way.

 

[Sin City]

Judd doesn't even come close to the likes of Mathews, Voss, Hird, Bucks etc...

Wrong. He's with these kind of guys now whether opposition supporters want to admit it or not.

 

[bluepride]

So not only is English a bit of a problem for you, it seems you cant count either. If this thread is anything to go by, no, it is falling about 70:30 Kouta's way.

It seems you have trouble reading.

Bigfooty Board doesn't equal Carlton Board
I hope you understood that.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Wrong. He's with these kind of guys now whether opposition supporters want to admit it or not.

And he still has 5 seasons in him barring unusual injury. Whilst its fun trying to compare players it is all conjecture in the end.

All of those players were great. I just hate this "hard vs soft" rubbish talk. All through Bradleys career he was labeled as soft, yet he played over 350 games of senior football at the highest level and would have walked into any team in his time and at his prime any team full stop.

What exactly is hard? Its bullshit. Being able to clothesline someone is not hard? Getting fit and getting out there for year after year at the highest level, that is what marks a man as hard. Doing the work, that is hard.

And if any player had to play the way the game was played in the past they would.

And if you want an example from another club, Robbie Flower.

 

[40yearBLUE]

It seems you have trouble reading.

Bigfooty Board doesn't equal Carlton Board
I hope you understood that.

Well go run a poll there child. You have a sample here. Go count them. I am not aware of nor interested in what the rest of BF are talking about, but if they are discussing the better of Judd or Kouta go count the results there champ. Should keep you occupied a while.

 

[bluepride]

Well go run a poll there child. You have a sample here. Go count them. I am not aware of nor interested in what the rest of BF are talking about, but if they are discussing the better of Judd or Kouta go count the results there champ. Should keep you occupied a while.

What part of, I have better things and more important things than do you not understand.

If your done, take your hand off it and watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsOZovSd1JQ&feature=related

After he was done in his first few years recruiters said "He has now doomed all first year players, as he has set a bar that is now unachievable but is now expected"

I suppose you have to go to work now, so ill leave you be.

 

[40yearBLUE]

What part of, I have better things and more important things than do you not understand.

If your done, take your hand off it and watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsOZovSd1JQ&feature=related

After he was done in his first few years recruiters said "He has now doomed all first year players, as he has set a bar that is now unachievable but is now expected"

I suppose you have to go to work now, so ill leave you be.

Oh this is fun. Sorry, where did you post that you have better things to do? Oh thats right, you are prolly cramming for the supplementary Uni exams. Oh thats right, you dont go to uni after all. In order for you to question what part I dont understand, you first have to have posted it? Damn iPhones.

And every year the press have things to say. If you are basing your opinion of what the press think you will be disappointed kid, cos they will be saying stuff about the next big thing, and Judd like all other past players wont be held as the standard any more. Its just the way it is. The new gun is fresh in mind, and people buy papers to read about the present champs not history lessons about past ones.

And since when have the presses uttering been worth remembering. They are fickle and change more often than the wind. For example, they proclaim that each years premiers will form part of a dynasty. They do it every year. They proclaimed our 95 team the best ever and predicted we would easily go back to back to back with it. Howd that work out? And then there is the dynasty class of 2008, you remember them, that team of young tyros that being so young meant they would be at the pointy end for a decade? Yep, gotta love the papers.

Suggest you get some ops of your own.

 

[Monkey King]

Wrong. He's with these kind of guys now whether opposition supporters want to admit it or not.

I'd agree Judd's right up there with Buckley and Hird in terms of toughness; but not Voss, who dished it out a little more than the other three.

Not to demean Judd, but Kouta's prime is beyond his reach IMO. Kouta's prime is just about as good as you'll ever see in your lifetime.

Loved watching him fly for the pack mark, take it and land on his feet, then bolt from the pack, brushing aside the front and square crumbers as they try to tackle him. Never seen anyone even remotely like Kouta.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I'd agree Judd's right up there with Buckley and Hird in terms of toughness; but not Voss, who dished it out a little more than the other three.

Not to demean Judd, but Kouta's prime is beyond his reach IMO. Kouta's prime is just about as good as you'll ever see in your lifetime.

Loved watching him fly for the pack mark, take it and land on his feet, then bolt from the pack, brushing aside the front and square crumbers as they try to tackle him. Never seen anyone even remotely like Kouta.

Welcome to the debate Simian Rex, choosing Kouta doesnt demean Judd, he is our current best player by such a long way. 2 players can never truly be compared. Its all a bit of fun to get us through to next Feb. Yes Feb, only 3 months of this to go. Yippee.

I think because Judd still has time to stamp himself among the Blues greatest the result of counting such a thread would go his way, but for now, enough of us still remember just how good Kouta was. I often wonder what would happen if we could clone him, whether a team of 18 Koutas all at their peak could beat an all star team of present day players. Now thats an interesting one.

 

[KoutoufidesGhost]

If I had to chose one, I'd go with Kouta (shocked, huh?). Kouta has all the abilities Judd has, plus he could mark, play at CHB, play in the ruck and go forward and kick goals.

1995-2001 would be Kouta's prime, and only in 1998 was form ever an issue. Every other year he would've been in our top 3 players in teams with some of the greatest Carlton players to ever play for the club.

The last quarter in the 99 PF is still the best individual quarter of footy I've ever seen someone play. Under extreme pressure, Kouta lifted a pretty average Carlton team over a side who would go on to win the next 20 games and the 2000 Premiership.

Obviously everyone is aware of his brilliant 2000 season, but his form in 2001, while it wasn't as consistent, the highs of it were still as good as anything he did in 2000. Then to re-invent himself as an inside midfielder after the knee injury robbed him of his athletic prowess and have great seasons in poor teams in 2003 and 2005, shows his true class and ability.

Don't get me wrong, Judd will rightfully go down as the best player of his generation, but I've always loved Kouta's ability to play anywhere and dominate.

 

[charcoalchicken]

Judd is the best midfielder of all time.

Pfft.. Bit of a stretch wouldn't ya say!

yeah just a tad

 

[BeligerentBlue]

For my 2 cents worth;

Judd, as good as he is, has not yet made me cry tears of joy, unlike Kouta. Judd still had time to create those tears and I hope that day comes.

Comparing the two though is like comparing loving fellatio from either Jessica Alba or Katy Perry. You wouldn't care who showed up on game day as long as one of them did.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Oh come on BP dont leave now, just when the fun is starting. Ask daddy if you can play a while longer.

Now here is an interesting question for you seeing as how you bought it up. Who do you think would know Carlton players better, Carlton fans or fans of the other teams?

So having decided that one, if you choose Carlton fans (I am assuming you decided Carlton fans would prolly give you a better answer than go flick yourself they are both soft corks) let me ask you how your count is working out for you so far.

Since you bought it up another 3 posters have posted in the Kouta column no more for Judd yet, that makes it about 12 to 2 and 1 who I couldnt tell which way he was leaning. Lets give him to Juddy. If you remember the grade 3 maths you did (last year ) that makes it 3 out of 4 people here think Kouta at his peak was better than Judd at his peak so far.

Now I dont post this so you change your mind. Judd is a champ no doubt about it. I just point it out to you so you dont try using what others think as ammunition in a debate about personal opinions. It dont matter what others think, it is only about what you think. You are entitled to think it dude. There is no right and wrong on this one. If on the other hand you were hoping to swim with the school, they went that way --------------------->

Oh an seeing as how youtube plays such a big part in helping you decide.....check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7lAzM9Ekp8

Yep prelim again, not some home and away game, serious big boy finals footy, game on the line stuff. I love Juddy as much as the next guy, but he couldnt get that high off the ground with a cesna and a parachute.

 

[agro]

Plus you say he is as hard as nails.. pfft.. if he was playing in the 80s, he would be one of the biggest girls running around.hahahaha im still giggling at you guys!

If you equate courage to the gang of thugs, and hit from behind snipers that you think were tough like Andrews, Merrett and Carey - then you are a cowardly gutless flower just like them so in the words of Don Lane to James Randi - "PI55 OFF!!!!".

 

[Monkey King]

Welcome to the debate Simian Rex ... I often wonder what would happen if we could clone him

Cheers mate! I would have been satisfied to have simply bred Kouta with Eloise Southby