judd?

[Half Back Pocket]

I think the real thing stopping us is what we would have to give up to get him.

Along with our 1st rounder (pick 9), we would have to give up probably two established players under 24. West Coast would probably want Riewoldt, but St Kilda cannot trade players just signed (which rules out Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Koschitzke, S Fisher, Hudghton and Fiora).

Players like Gilbert, Armitage, Montagna, X Clarke, & Allen would probably be what they are looking for, and they would want two of them with the 9th pick. Would St Kilda consider sending X Clarke & Gilbert, or Armitage & Montagna, to Perth for Chris Judd? Remember his injury problems in the second half of the year, and the unique perspective St Kilda has on this kind of problem (Luke Ball).

Finally, in 2001 West Coast almost selected Graham Polak. I have it on good authority that there was no way Fremantle were going to select a midfielder with pick 4 (having just signed Peter Bell and Jeff Farmer), so the Dockers would have selected David Hale. St Kilda, pick 5, Chris Judd. Oh my.

I don't think pick 9 would be high enough. We'd probably need to trade 9 and a player for pick 3,4 or 5. Then we'd need to on trade this pick and a player (or two) for Judd.

 

[Obeanie1]

IMO the only way the Saints will get Judd is by trading players for low picks.

Kosi is your best bet, the Bulldogs, Tigers and even Carlton would possibly cough up a bottom 5 pick for Kosi.

Then you would have pick 3 or 5. Your first pick is 9?

McGuire would attract interest from the same trio, only problem is both players have been injured.

Second problem, how do you replace any KPP you trade for him?

A trade a top midfielder to get a pick to then get Judd is less risk to your overall team structure. Del santo to Essendon for pick 6?

Talk about a trade frenzy

 

[Fehring]

Finally, in 2001 West Coast almost selected Graham Polak. I have it on good authority that there was no way Fremantle were going to select a midfielder with pick 4 (having just signed Peter Bell and Jeff Farmer), so the Dockers would have selected David Hale. St Kilda, pick 5, Chris Judd. Oh my.

I think I just swooned at the thought. Had a brief hot flush.

Ah, back to reality.

 

[ChrisL#12]

I would take Judd for Ball and #9. Ball is a liability and a half fit Judd is 20 times better than a half fit Ball.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I would take Judd for Ball and #9. Ball is a liability and a half fit Judd is 20 times better than a half fit Ball.

Bullshit.

Chris Judd half-fit (post round 14)

Round 15 - 11 disposals
Round 16 - 21 disposals
Round 17 - 20 disposals
Round 18 - 14 disposals
Round 19 - 11 disposals
Round 21 - 10 disposals
Qualifying Final - 12 disposals

Average: 14.1 disposals

Luke Ball half-fit (all of 2007)
19.2 disposals
4.4 marks
5.1 tackles

 

[Ferga18]

I would say there is zero chance of judd coming to the saints. Will go to a club who can offer a top 5 pick. Not us.

he wont go to a club who has a top 5 pick.....i mean he might...but thats not the reason he will go there...he will go somewhere where there is great facilities, a succesfull team looking forward (next 5-6 years), money of course, and a powerful administraion looking after the club.

Carlton fits: money and power

Essendon fits: money

Melbourne fits: some money

Collingwood fits: money, power, facilities and a succesful club list that will play consistant finals in the next 5 years and have a chnace to win a couple of flags.

If i was Chris judd I think i know where I would want to be...

I might be being a bit biost but its true facts...Saints should have a crack at him though. Even though he said he only wanted to talk to the above 4 clubs only, i still think just have a crack and see how far u get.

 

[ChrisL#12]

Bullshit.

Chris Judd half-fit (post round 14)

Round 15 - 11 disposals
Round 16 - 21 disposals
Round 17 - 20 disposals
Round 18 - 14 disposals
Round 19 - 11 disposals
Round 21 - 10 disposals
Qualifying Final - 12 disposals

Average: 14.1 disposals

Luke Ball half-fit (all of 2007)
19.2 disposals
4.4 marks
5.1 tackles

Disposals don't count for everything. I think you've forgotten about the stats that say how many times Ball has been caught holding the footy compared to Judd. And how many times Judd sets up the play for his team even though he has less disposals. Juddy still has explosive speed and can break the lines, Ball is slow and has no awareness. But you've failed to show these stats. Not everything is about disposals, and if you think it is, then think back to Mark McGough.

 

[The Punter]

I wouldn't want to give up Luke Ball after all he has done for the club. The man has spilt more blood for the St Kilda Football Club than many.

Unfortunately the sweetheart deal isn't going to happen.

 

[Mad Saint]

Ball is off limits. Gee I can't wait until he's fit again and everyone remembers just how good he is. Last time he was fit he was an all australian and since then he has been injured. He'll be back and he'll once again show what a great player he is.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

So you're suggesting we could trade our starting centre half back, a starting pacey midfielder/flanker, our 1st draft pick and possibly one of our young guns for a single player?

Good point. I can tell you right now we will not be able to secure Chris. We have nothing to offer in the way of picks and clubs with early picks wont trade them for our players, they would be trying to stich up their own deal.
A very strong rumour from today is Fevola for pick 5, with Carlton sending 3,5 and Kennedy to WC.
West Coast will pick Palmer and Morton.
Give me Maguire, Armo, Gilbert and Goddard anyday instead of a bloke who may never regain full fitness, this is what has softened the blow for West Coast.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Disposals don't count for everything. I think you've forgotten about the stats that say how many times Ball has been caught holding the footy compared to Judd. And how many times Judd sets up the play for his team even though he has less disposals. Juddy still has explosive speed and can break the lines, Ball is slow and has no awareness. But you've failed to show these stats. Not everything is about disposals, and if you think it is, then think back to Mark McGough.

I may not have seen every WC game from week 14 onwards (in fact, I probably have seen every non-Foxtel game), but I cannot quite recall Judd showing a lot of "explosive speed" or breaking the lines in the second half of the season.

I do remember him, however, being caught holding the ball a few times in that time (often saved by very generous umpiring - he is Chris Judd after all...), including the seemingly effortless run down and tackle by Sam Gilbert in Rd 21...

Judd is the best player in the league when fit (and of more value than Ball when fit), but Ball (even when not fully fit) is one the toughest in the league and,comparing them with their problems this year, imo far superior to Judd who was - to be honest - worst on ground in most of his games lately...

 

[one_glove]

Good point. I can tell you right now we will not be able to secure Chris. We have nothing to offer in the way of picks and clubs with early picks wont trade them for our players, they would be trying to stich up their own deal.
A very strong rumour from today is Fevola for pick 5, with Carlton sending 3,5 and Kennedy to WC.
West Coast will pick Palmer and Morton.
Give me Maguire, Armo, Gilbert and Goddard anyday instead of a bloke who may never regain full fitness, this is what has softened the blow for West Coast.

i think if carlton did that they would be completely stupid.... trading pick 3, fevola and kennedy for judd??? no way, they aren't even that stupid. losing 2 key players for them and number 3 pick? If I was Carlton I wouldn't be keen for that at all... just the same as i dont want to lose the likes of maguir, clarke and a first rounder for judd, wouldn't be worth all that

 

[Persevering Saint]

The other reason I don't want Judd is because he's too much of a celebrity (granted, he deserves to be!). We all know the Saints historically invest too much in celebrity players. That's what's so great about players like Roo and Kosi and Dal and Bally and Harves - all great players, but they make everybody else on the team feel like they're all equal. Judd will be coming in as an outsider, and consequently a celebrity. It's a tasty fish, but let's just let him go.

 

[eddies army]

anyone interested in dal and pick 9 for judd????

 

[Qsaint]

anyone interested in dal and pick 9 for judd????

No and thats the same problem Collingwoods got we don't necessarily improve our list by doing that. We need to Keep Dal, Roo etc and add Judd, Just like Collingwood need to keep your younger players. Thats why he'll end up at Carlton or in the PSD

 

[m.diddy]

he wont go to a club who has a top 5 pick.....i mean he might...but thats not the reason he will go there...he will go somewhere where there is great facilities, a succesfull team looking forward (next 5-6 years), money of course, and a powerful administraion looking after the club.

Carlton fits: money and power

Essendon fits: money

Melbourne fits: some money

Collingwood fits: money, power, facilities and a succesful club list that will play consistant finals in the next 5 years and have a chnace to win a couple of flags.

If i was Chris judd I think i know where I would want to be...

I might be being a bit biost but its true facts...Saints should have a crack at him though. Even though he said he only wanted to talk to the above 4 clubs only, i still think just have a crack and see how far u get.

melbourne have no money, I don't even think they can pay 100% of the salary cap still.

 

[eddies army]

No and thats the same problem Collingwoods got we don't necessarily improve our list by doing that. We need to Keep Dal, Roo etc and add Judd, Just like Collingwood need to keep your younger players. Thats why he'll end up at Carlton or in the PSD

yeah i agree, only hope is that if he nominates a team outright, then the eagles have to atleast accept a medioca deal or loose him for nothing....three times the player nick stevens is..so theyd go down in the books not for bein stubborn but flat out on ice....

 

[sauce_head]

yeah i agree, only hope is that if he nominates a team outright, then the eagles have to atleast accept a medioca deal or loose him for nothing....three times the player nick stevens is..so theyd go down in the books not for bein stubborn but flat out on ice....

He would be mad not to nominate Collingwood. You will just have to hope that it does not cost you too much if he fails to recover from injury.

You just know if the saints got him that he would never play again!

 

[eddies army]

there s 3 certainties in life sauce head death taxes and pies not bein too generous...which is why he will play for blues, we have some good talent comin through so there is no need to wreck a good thing, better off with a ruckman..

 

[goodie23]

there s 3 certainties in life sauce head death taxes and pies not bein too generous...which is why he will play for blues, we have some good talent comin through so there is no need to wreck a good thing, better off with a ruckman..

Thought for a second you meant Judd there, I was wondering why he would go to Carlton then

 

[cormdoga]

Judd has already expressed to the hawks and the saints that he doesnt want in, thats fine with me and im sure the hawks, we can win a flag wihtout him...but, the saints do need to do some trading before we do win the flag...i believe that st.kilda need gardiner firing (or even playing) so blake doesnt need to ruck for 75 min a game. We need kosi to stay up forward to kick goals..goose has signed so there is our CHB. Luke Ball is a superstar, not many people saw him play good games but no one remembers the gunish games he played before he got injured. If saints trade dal santo in the hope of judd, they are a complete joke, i rate dal so highly i wouldnt even put pick 9 in there for the judd deal....


i think the saints should go after two sorts of players

a half forward flanker - pettifer, ebert, ryan o'keefe
a key position forward - fevola, mark williams

if st.kilda get pettfier and say williams, i think the saints forward line would be upstopable.

HFF: X.Clarke CHF: Roo HFF: Pettifer
FP: Milne FF: Kosi FP: Williams

This to you know may seem crappy, but if we take this into consideration

Ruck: Gardiner
Ruck Rover: Hayes
Rover: Dal Santo
Centre: Ball

The delivery into the foward line would be awesome and people such as pettifer, milne and williams would be playing on the 3rd, 4th and 5th best defenders, which many teams dont have... and then we still have x. clarke playing on sides 6th best defender!

in conclusion

Riewoldt will kick 50+ goals in '08
Kosi will kick 50+ goals in '08
Pettfier will kick 40+ (playing on the likes of bradley/tom williams as defenders)
Williams will kick 50+
Milne will kick 45+
X.Clarke will chip in for 25+ goals
Midfield will kick there usual 30 for the year
Half back line: Gram, Goose and Sam Fisher will kick 30 between them.

Thats 320 goals if no one else kicks goals...so

320 x 6 = 1910

1910 / 22 = 86.818 points per game

so even if when we lose games with 65 points on the scoreboard the next week we come out and win by 10 goals kicking 20 for the game..

saints theory to win the flag complete.

 

[m.diddy]

Judd has already expressed to the hawks and the saints that he doesnt want in, thats fine with me and im sure the hawks, we can win a flag wihtout him...but, the saints do need to do some trading before we do win the flag...i believe that st.kilda need gardiner firing (or even playing) so blake doesnt need to ruck for 75 min a game. We need kosi to stay up forward to kick goals..goose has signed so there is our CHB. Luke Ball is a superstar, not many people saw him play good games but no one remembers the gunish games he played before he got injured. If saints trade dal santo in the hope of judd, they are a complete joke, i rate dal so highly i wouldnt even put pick 9 in there for the judd deal....


i think the saints should go after two sorts of players

a half forward flanker - pettifer, ebert, ryan o'keefe
a key position forward - fevola, mark williams

if st.kilda get pettfier and say williams, i think the saints forward line would be upstopable.

HFF: X.Clarke CHF: Roo HFF: Pettifer
FP: Milne FF: Kosi FP: Williams

This to you know may seem crappy, but if we take this into consideration

Ruck: Gardiner
Ruck Rover: Hayes
Rover: Dal Santo
Centre: Ball

The delivery into the foward line would be awesome and people such as pettifer, milne and williams would be playing on the 3rd, 4th and 5th best defenders, which many teams dont have... and then we still have x. clarke playing on sides 6th best defender!

in conclusion

Riewoldt will kick 50+ goals in '08
Kosi will kick 50+ goals in '08
Pettfier will kick 40+ (playing on the likes of bradley/tom williams as defenders)
Williams will kick 50+
Milne will kick 45+
X.Clarke will chip in for 25+ goals
Midfield will kick there usual 30 for the year
Half back line: Gram, Goose and Sam Fisher will kick 30 between them.

Thats 320 goals if no one else kicks goals...so

320 x 6 = 1910

1910 / 22 = 86.818 points per game

so even if when we lose games with 65 points on the scoreboard the next week we come out and win by 10 goals kicking 20 for the game..

saints theory to win the flag complete.

I'd rather another tall forward than 4 medium forwards. Watts is the key there.


Imo we need another good defensive midfielder like a K.Cornes or C.ling and a top quality fast midfielder, maybe if fiora comes good he'll do. Not to mention a good ruckman as we can't rely on Gardiner.

 

[bubblegoose]

a key position forward - fevola, mark williams ..... if st.kilda get pettfier and say williams, i think the saints forward line would be upstopable.

Gday, has anyone else heard anything about state of William's knees?

 

[St DAC]

The word is it's unclear whether he'll be able to come back or not. Apparently the damage was pretty bad, unfortunately.

That's just what I hear, so take it with a grain or ten of salt ...