Judge Is Sacked

[nolsey77]

KEN JUDGE HAS BEEN SACKED.

WHAT A BAD MOVE, we no longer want or need two teams in WA, why dont u become a Republic and Play in the WA.

Why did the Dockers sack DRUM

AND now The Eagles Sack Judge

 

[Mr Eagle]

Awwwww...but they started it!

 

[Blues_Brat]

Originally posted by nolsey77
KEN JUDGE HAS BEEN SACKED.

WHAT A BAD MOVE, we no longer want or need two teams in WA, why dont u become a Republic and Play in the WA.

Why did the Dockers sack DRUM

AND now The Eagles Sack Judge

 

[WCE2000]

not a smart move at all.

Hawthorn stuck with Judge, now look where they are. Will go to close to the flag next season.

I think, given the run with injuries he had in his 2 years, it was no where near as bad as what every made out to bad. I would've given him at least 1 year, and hopefully with a decent injury run we could have a proper crack at finals football again.

But whoever replaces him im sure will do a good job, hopefully is Johnny Worsfold.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by nolsey77
KEN JUDGE HAS BEEN SACKED.

WHAT A BAD MOVE, we no longer want or need two teams in WA, why dont u become a Republic and Play in the WA.

Why did the Dockers sack DRUM

AND now The Eagles Sack Judge

Cant say im surprised really

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by WCE2000
[B

But whoever replaces him im sure will do a good job, hopefully is Johnny Worsfold. [/B]

Hey! he's ours!

 

[Blues2001]

But I agree with you WCE2000. I also would have given him another year to prove himself.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Gee I wish I could get sacked from my job and walk away with a million dollars...

 

[Chris_23]

IMHO it's a bad move. I don't particularly like Ken Judge, and the Hawthorn players didn't particularly Ken Judge but i do think he was a better coach than some people give him credit for.

In 1996 he squeezed the absolute best out of our list, it was aging and tiring (much like WCE's last year) After 96 he went for youth and after a few years the signs were good for Hawthorn. He does get criticised for his defensive game plan but when you are teaching (not coaching) youngsters to play AFL footy is it such a bad policy? Make them learn discipline and accountability while they're young so it's ingrained in there play. Then as they get more experienced (less likely to stuff up) introduce the attacking side to there game. What people don't realise is that about half-way through Hawthorn's 1999 season the game plan changed quite dramatically. He was more attacking and the team benefited. We won the last 5 games and we scored quite heavily in some of them (Rd22 especially)

I just don't understand what the WCE board expect out of him? He's had more injuries than anyone and you can't expect first year players to carry a side for a whole season. They haven't even given him a chance to prove himself. Bad decision.

 

[Eagle_Fan]

We'll i'm thrilled anyway

I'll explain why later on, right now there's bottle of champers that need cracking!

YAY!



OMG! We've killed Kenny?

 

[dees01]

Silly move. Kevin Sheedy would not have done much better with that list. Ken Judge built that list at Hawthorn and look where they are now. The same will happen with the Eagles.

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Eagle_Fan


We'll i'm thrilled anyway

I'll explain why later on, right now there's bottle of champers that need cracking!

YAY!



OMG! We've killed Kenny?

Good onya Eagle Fan...I know exactly how you feel. And I bet the players are all absolutely overjoyed as well, although they won't go on record as such.

But I'm sure they will be delighted they will no longer have a coach who regularly belittles individuals in front of the playing group and is well-known for a temper, including throwing chairs across rooms, throwing players names off whiteboards and out the window etc.

 

[Voice of Reason]

IMO the bad decision was 2 years ago when they recruited Ken Judge initially. I thought it was wrong then.

Despite the comments on this thread, most Hawthorn supporters I have spoken to/corresponded with believe that Judge took too much credit for Hawthorn's develoment and that others deserve much of the real credit (recruiting, Turnbull, fitness Bubjusitlivicicheksk, tactics Connelly etc).

However, I don't think anyone could have done that much better over the last 2 years than he did, but I still don't believe he is the man to lead us back to the top of the ladder.

I hope we have a successor up our sleeve who can do the job and that he (or she) is supported by a competent football department team.

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Voice of Reason

Despite the comments on this thread, most Hawthorn supporters I have spoken to/corresponded with believe that Judge took too much credit for Hawthorn's develoment and that others deserve much of the real credit (recruiting, Turnbull, fitness Bubjusitlivicicheksk, tactics Connelly etc).

Exactly VoR - John Turnbull should take far more credit for the recruiting at Hawthorn than Ken Judge. Certainly Judge did play some part in the recruiting of WA players, but Turnbull has been the main player in finding a lot of our younger players and getting them to Glenferrie.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by GOALden Hawk


Good onya Eagle Fan...I know exactly how you feel. And I bet the players are all absolutely overjoyed as well, although they won't go on record as such.

But I'm sure they will be delighted they will no longer have a coach who regularly belittles individuals in front of the playing group and is well-known for a temper, including throwing chairs across rooms, throwing players names off whiteboards and out the window etc.

At least he hasn't thrown any players out the window, I bet FWW would have done it during his coaching career, if he thought he could get away with it.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Chris_23
. Make them learn discipline and accountability while they're young so it's ingrained in there play. Then as they get more experienced (less likely to stuff up) introduce the attacking side to there game. .

I think you have put your finger right on the button.

What was missing was discipline and accountability. We had become used to it with MM and over the past two years it has hardly been seen. Add lack of motivational and tactical ability and it sums up why he's gone.

 

[GoEagles]

Voice of Reason - good call! He wasn't the right man for the job in the first place. (See my reasons on the Eagles board as to why). It's much better to part on good terms at the end of the season, unlike keeping him for 1/4 of the season then dumping him (a la Drum). The announcement was fairly sudden since we weren't expecting a decision to be made for a week or two - which might mean the Eagles already have a coach lined up!

Judge now joins Alexander, Todd, Malthouse in the select group of 'ex-coaches' of the Eagles now.

 

[GoEagles]

Frodo - I think all Eagle supporters agree that if wasn't a huge shock to us to hear that Judge has been sacked - it was only a matter of when.

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Now that the champers is gone....

Personally, I am glad the Ken has gone. I'm not glad that we have had to sack a coach, but (as others have said) I don't believe he was the right choice in the first place.

So here is how I see it:


Factors Saving Judge

(Reasons why he was stiff to be given the boot.)

• Injuries: as everyone has said, our injury run for the past two seasons (and before) has been shocking. Would’ve been nice to hear other post-match excuses once in awhile though however.

• Retirements of McKenna, Lewis and Kemp during the seasons takes its toll, both in terms of having guys to put out on the field and to the mentality of those watching club heroes gradually forced to leave the game they love, simpley because they gave it their all, 100% of the time.

• Lack of depth. Our list isn’t strong, first to admit that. He was left with very few decent middle-aged (22-27) players, and a number that were not up to standard. Squad was not as aging as people seem to think, but the few older players we do have don’t leave as much room for rebuilding as say Collingwood.

• ‘Fill-in’ coach mentality of media, supporters and perhaps even players had to work against him. The notion that whatever he did was never going to be good enough was never going to help his confidence and motivation.

• Some of the pressure on him has come from our sponsors and 'high profile' supporers. I don’t want him to have been sacked due to sponsor pressure, but still want him gone.

Factors Cutting his own Throat

(Reasons why the decision was justified and right.)

• A major lack of player respect. It's one thing to not like your coach (Mick, or Ron Barassi), but to not respect him to the point of talking among yourselves during his 1/4 and 3/4 time adresses is another. Has anyone noticed that only Jako supported him publically in the last couple of weeks? Captain Cuz said that the speculation was affecting the team, but didn't back KJ.

• Lack of communication skills etc, vital to developing young players (his main role it would seem). Just hasn't been able to get his instructions across to the squad.

• Poor acceptance among members & supporters and a bad public representative / spokesperson for the club. Not strictly speaking essential football wise, but as Wallace and Sheedy prove it's a part of the modern day coach.

• In-fighting and conflict among his assistants, and disagreements between the assistants and Judge.

• Too defensive, not what was required heading out of & away from the Malthouse era.

• Completely inflexible & non-responsive. Eg. Treatment of full forwards, reluctance to try new moves etc when getting caned. Wouldn’t make changes when certain players were being soundly beaten (eg continually player Wirra in back pocket etc). His lack of action is what contributed to all the 10+ goal thrashings

• Playing players out of position (partly due to injuries mind you), or moving them around the entire ground too frequently enough for them to settle into a role.

• Poor management of aging players, injuries and the wear and tear of travel.

• Players lacked confidence on-field, seemed only interested in saiving their own bacon at times, perhaps due to his humiliation etc behind closed doors.

• Soft. The team has lacked physicality all season

• More incidences of on-field aggro & fighting among teammates, formerly close-knit but professional group, now split into divisions. This wasn't helped by the choice of Cousins as captain (even though he's done such a great job), perhaps Jako & Cuz together would have brought the group together more.

• Alienation of veteran players and those associated with the club far longer than him.

• Personality clashes overflowing onto the ground, White & Metropolis’s departures last season. Premiership and long time loyal players asking to be traded away from their new coach just isn’t right in my book.

• We haven’t improved. Injury problem hasn’t been as serious in terms of week-to-week changes in second half of the season, yet apart from a short burst against Freo, St.K, and a few promising efforts prior to that, we are still where we were at our worst, early in the season. Both Freo & St. Kilda have improved, we haven’t, simple as that.

• Extreme reduction in skill level. Now substandard. Rebuilding is one thing, deskilling is another.

Replacement scenario

• I'm a huge wrap for Worsfold. He's incredibly intelligent, tough, conservatively innovative (think about it ), has the respect of his players and off-field team, but at the same time is not afraid to deal with them toughly.

• But I'd hate to see him hired simply because he is Worsfold, and if there’s a better qualified & suitable applicant, take them instead.

• Not too sure about Wallace, would be well suited imo, media friendly, relatively young, innovative & good motivator, tough yet able to get his message across to younger players. Seems to have uncovered a few talented youngsters over the last season or two. But the club doesn’t want to get a reputation for ‘stealing’ coaches. Should be wary of repeating the KJ debacle all over again.

• Should sound out current assistants once season is over, Harvey impresses, Connolly & Royal excellent reputations, even Drum as an assistant if he was interested. Blight hasn’t tried WA yet has he?

Anyway, we'll see what happens.