Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA

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All the events that happened before and after Julie disappeared are directly related to her disappearance, there's only a couple of theories that are practical.

A kidnap for ransom (that either went wrong, or was abandoned before a ransom demand was made)

0r

A crime of passion from a someone that stalked her. (Either a wannabe lover or a jilted one). A possibility which gains some traction by allegations in the Post Newspaper article about an alleged unsworn confession by a bouncer.

However

The phone call from a female to a journalist bugs me. If it is related, then someone was co-opted, or the perpetrator is female, or can mimic one enough to fool a journalist. (Voice altering kit used to be sold by Dick Smith electronics that could've achieved this - anyone with a soldering iron could've built one).

The incident on Stirling Hwy bugs me too, as surely Julie would've recognised the driver or the car if it was someone she knew, unless she didn't think to get a good look at him or her.

I'd like to see a picture of the biro.
I think Police would've got a complete list of all former employees of the Parmelia, the shops inside it, the bar, and any contracted security staff.
It would add considerable interest to know if this alleged bouncer mentioned in the Post Newspaper also worked at the Parmelia and when. Without knowing a name, whatever association with this case that he has is impossible to sleuth.
Anyhow online sources of information back in the 80's is extremely limited, but some exist, and no doubt witnesses will come forward when the information in the Post Newspaper article gains wider circulation.

If anyone, besides Julie herself, is responsible for her disappearance, then whoever it is, or they are, must realise that they're living upon borrowed time, if the Post Newspaper article is going down the right rabbit burrow.
10 days after her disappearance a kidnapping wasn't far from the mind of her sister at least.
Edit - cant upload the article "For Gods Sake let her Go" Sister's plea for lost Julie.
Although there is no evidence Julie has been kidnapped, Nicole wanted her message published to cover the possibility. "It is only speculation but I can speculate like anyone else what might or might not have happened" she said. The paragraph after says "police refuse to comment on such speculation but have said "nothing is being ruled out".
 
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ShirazOnly

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is it possible ... that Julie Cutler parked her car early for work...and strolled to get a bite...on the saturday at King Kebabs(late lunch)...and forgot (left behind) her plastic bag containing her work uniform there....
She was to change into her uniform once at work...but she did not have it now...so she used another uniform from the hotel pantry to get by....until another uniform was supplied....
Just need to know if King Kebabs (Centreway Arcade)would of been open on a saturday...(and if she worked on the saturday afternoon or evening shift) prior to the forthcoming sunday...
Her evening dress could of been in the car...as she did go out the car on at least one occasion....
 
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Not confirmed as far as I'm aware. However, I'm curious why Bret Christian printed it in front page headlines in the Post if not more than speculation. It was based on a written statement given to police. They know who the bouncer was and who the cop was that buried the report. Christian has the reputation not only of being independent but crime solving and reputable.

Having Parmelia champagne glasses could have meant Julie visited her car a couple of times taking glasses out with her or she offered a lift to a couple and they all walked out with their champagne glasses?
is it possible ... that Julie Cutler parked her car early for work...and strolled to get a bite...on the saturday at King Kebabs(late lunch)...and forgot (left behind) her plastic bag containing her work uniform there....
She was to change into her uniform once at work...but she did not have it now...so she used another uniform from the hotel pantry to get by....until another uniform was supplied....
Just need to know if King Kebabs (Centreway Arcade)would of been open on a saturday...(and if she worked on the saturday afternoon or evening shift) prior to the forthcoming sunday...
Her evening dress could of been in the car...as she did go out the car on
I wonder if it was proved without doubt the uniform was Julie’s. It’s pretty sketchy on the date and time it was left and how long it had been there. It could have belonged to anyone who may not even remember where they lost it. Maybe why no one else ever claimed it was theirs.
 

Melsy

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Not confirmed as far as I'm aware. However, I'm curious why Bret Christian printed it in front page headlines in the Post if not more than speculation. It was based on a written statement given to police. They know who the bouncer was and who the cop was that buried the report. Christian has the reputation not only of being independent but crime solving and reputable.

Having Parmelia champagne glasses could have meant Julie visited her car a couple of times taking glasses out with her or she offered a lift to a couple and they all walked out with their champagne glasses?
Have you an example of Bret's crime solving?
 

Melsy

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Not confirmed as far as I'm aware. However, I'm curious why Bret Christian printed it in front page headlines in the Post if not more than speculation. It was based on a written statement given to police. They know who the bouncer was and who the cop was that buried the report. Christian has the reputation not only of being independent but crime solving and reputable.

Having Parmelia champagne glasses could have meant Julie visited her car a couple of times taking glasses out with her or she offered a lift to a couple and they all walked out with their champagne glasses?
is it possible ... that Julie Cutler parked her car early for work...and strolled to get a bite...on the saturday at King Kebabs(late lunch)...and forgot (left behind) her plastic bag containing her work uniform there....
She was to change into her uniform once at work...but she did not have it now...so she used another uniform from the hotel pantry to get by....until another uniform was supplied....
Just need to know if King Kebabs (Centreway Arcade)would of been open on a saturday...(and if she worked on the saturday afternoon or evening shift) prior to the forthcoming sunday...
Her evening dress could of been in the car...as she did go out the car on at least one occasion....
Its a lot of what if's isn't it. But what is the point of it? How the glasses got there? How is it relevant? Just asking? Not critic.

It was a staff awards night. You all get a 6 pack of Parmelia champagne flutes and a Hawaiian diary pack to take home with you? Thankyou for your loyalty.

As for the bag, the one time Julie goes missing, her uniform turns up slid under table at a nearby cafe. If you had your car, why would you take the uniform out of the car to go for something to eat after stuffing yourself at the staff awards night with free food and alcohol?

You know, if I had nearly been run off the road a few weeks prior, then another person had been abducted from another 5 star CBD hotel and beaten for 3 hours, I dare say police may have advised hotel admin and staff of the current security risk and female staff were advised not to go to their cars on their own.

Quite normal that female staff might escort other solo staff to their cars under the circumstances of abduction and horrendous injuries. There may be more attempts we don't know about in the year 1988.
 
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shellyg

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Its a lot of what if's isn't it. But what is the point of it? How the glasses got there? How is it relevant? Just asking? Not critic.
It doesn't really matter how the glasses got there, iirc it was only suggested that Julie may have walked out with them as a comparison to how she might have got the pen.

But, if they weren't an awards gift and she borrowed or souvenired the flutes the cops probably could have asked the bar staff if she might have not also walked out with a couple of bottles of champagne or sparkling wine. It might indicate she had plans to meet someone else after the function. Perhaps at the beach.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a pic of Julie on here in company outdoors at night holding a glass of champagne. Not unusual I think for a couple to several to be in her car.

Edit: It may also help to settle the matter of whether she made it home or not and what her movements might have been.

If she took bottles of alcohol out of the Parmelia, full they should have been found in or around the car. Anybody find the bottles on the beach? In the bins? The motel where the scream was heard.
 
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Melsy

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It doesn't really matter how the glasses got there, iirc it was only suggested that Julie may have walked out with them as a comparison to how she might have got the pen.

But, if they weren't an awards gift and she borrowed or souvenired the flutes the cops probably could have asked the bar staff if she might have not also walked out with a couple of bottles of champagne or sparkling wine. It might indicate she had plans to meet someone else after the function. Perhaps at the beach.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a pic of Julie on here in company outdoors at night holding a glass of champagne. Not unusual I think for a couple to several to be in her car.
I think it was a glass of white wine but point taken. She drank, at least socially. Do you think she walked out of her workplace with a full glass of champagne after work or empty? If for keep sakes over a period of time, why leave them in the car? Leave them int he car to roll around. Doesn't sound right.

The Parmelia flutes were the only remaining item left in the vehicle, yes? Other possible alleged items found at Beach Street.

Considering the distance between cafe and Parmelia, I'm surprised the uniform was handed in 12 months later. Was the uniform handed to police or hotel?

One thing I noticed, is the car into the ocean was very sort of dramatic. It appeared to attract more attention from the media. Car in ocean certainly made the paper and more publicity by police than usual. Weeks later the naked guy on the beach certainly had me thinking, but as usual, suicide just fades away without communication to the public what happened.
 

Melsy

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So for purpose of hypothesis, Julie had a diary and a pen in the car at the time, that was not Hawaiian, but nothing scribbled in it?

Had the perpetrator searched Julies wallet, purse, diary, and anything else that might identify the perpetrator by number plate or phone number?

It sounds like someone was not a big fan of 5 star CBD hotels, and or the women that worked there in hospitality.

Julie in Mill st, Dorothy in Hill st.

Julie leaves Julianna's (Parmelia) in a black evening dress.

Dorothy leaves Clouds (Sheraton). Both at the same time of morning/night on different dates?

 
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shellyg

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Do you think she walked out of her workplace with a full glass of champagne after work or empty? If for keep sakes over a period of time, why leave them in the car? Leave them int he car to roll around. Doesn't sound right.
I'd think she only put them in the car that night. Either as a gift in a box which would have fallen apart in the sea or souvenired to take home (ie she didnt make it home) or to meet someone afterwards. If it was to meet someone afterwards I'd suggest she likely also took bottles of alcohol out as well. That night.
 

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Its a lot of what if's isn't it. But what is the point of it? How the glasses got there? How is it relevant? Just asking? Not critic.

It was a staff awards night. You all get a 6 pack of Parmelia champagne flutes and a Hawaiian diary pack to take home with you? Thankyou for your loyalty.

As for the bag, the one time Julie goes missing, her uniform turns up slid under table at a nearby cafe. If you had your car, why would you take the uniform out of the car to go for something to eat after stuffing yourself at the staff awards night with free food and alcohol?

You know, if I had nearly been run off the road a few weeks prior, then another person had been abducted from another 5 star CBD hotel and beaten for 3 hours, I dare say police may have advised hotel admin and staff of the current security risk and female staff were advised not to go to their cars on their own.

Quite normal that female staff might escort other solo staff to their cars under the circumstances of abduction and horrendous injuries. There may be more attempts we don't know about in the year 1988.


As for the bag, the one time Julie goes missing, her uniform turns up slid under table at a nearby cafe. If you had your car, why would you take the uniform out of the car to go for something to eat after stuffing yourself at the staff awards night with free food and alcohol?


I am just talking about the bag...because the bag has been an issue...i don't really think the bag is of real importance to be quite honest(may have become a over reaction)....but it is still a bag been found...And it would save so much time to take the bag with you IF you were going for a bite(lunch)..so you save having to go by and get it again...from car park...Dinner at hotel was much later in evening when her shift was finished...
The bag was handed in to police station...

Apparently...in melbourne...there is also a centerway arcade in that year...opening times @
Mon-Fri 8am-6pm
sat 9am-2.30pm
sun closed
 
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Melsy

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As for the bag, the one time Julie goes missing, her uniform turns up slid under table at a nearby cafe. If you had your car, why would you take the uniform out of the car to go for something to eat after stuffing yourself at the staff awards night with free food and alcohol?


I am just talking about the bag...because the bag has been an issue...i don't really think the bag is of real importance to be quite honest(may have become a over reaction)....but it is still a bag been found...And it would save so much time to take the bag with you IF you were going for a bite(lunch)..so you save having to go by and get it again...from car park...Dinner at hotel was much later in evening when her shift was finished...
The bag was handed in to police station...

Apparently...in melbourne...there is also a centerway arcade in that year...opening times @
Mon-Fri 8am-6pm
sat 9am-2.30pm
sun closed
I don't know how you have done it, but you have messed up the quote.
 

Melsy

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I'd think she only put them in the car that night. Either as a gift in a box which would have fallen apart in the sea or souvenired to take home (ie she didnt make it home) or to meet someone afterwards. If it was to meet someone afterwards I'd suggest she likely also took bottles of alcohol out as well. That night.
It would be interesting to see if there is more than 2 glasses.
 

ShirazOnly

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flutes ... glasses..how may of them...
this is how you solve a in substantiated event....
we just count how many ...could be 1... could be 2... could be 3... could be 4.. could be five...could be...they all(1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6..of them...stayed put..
thru the rough encounters of the sea....

and cigarretes....just stay in ashtrays..when tumbled and tumbled to an unrecognizable car....
perhaps...the car was found before the ocean event......
 
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I think it was a glass of white wine but point taken. She drank, at least socially. Do you think she walked out of her workplace with a full glass of champagne after work or empty? If for keep sakes over a period of time, why leave them in the car? Leave them int he car to roll around. Doesn't sound right.

The Parmelia flutes were the only remaining item left in the vehicle, yes? Other possible alleged items found at Beach Street.

Considering the distance between cafe and Parmelia, I'm surprised the uniform was handed in 12 months later. Was the uniform handed to police or hotel?

One thing I noticed, is the car into the ocean was very sort of dramatic. It appeared to attract more attention from the media. Car in ocean certainly made the paper and more publicity by police than usual. Weeks later the naked guy on the beach certainly had me thinking, but as usual, suicide just fades away without communication to the public what happened.
been thinking about how people say it’s unusual nothing else was in her car. I guess it depends on the sort of person she was. I have nothing in my car but my bag which goes with me so I don’t find it unusual but others have half their wardrobe in theirs.
 
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Seems since the massive site update I stopped getting any alerts for some of the threads I "watch" apologies if these things have already been raised/queried and I've missed it from the quick skimming of posts.

There's a few things that don't stack up so wanted to fly this on here and see if anyone else has picked up on it or may be able to shed some light.

From The Post Newspaper article.
"Bouncer admitted murder"
December 1st edition

Items mr Redfern found at the Dutch Inn dunes 1994-95
1. Large brownish bag
2. A purse with coins in it
3. A biro with Hawaiian on it
4. A 1988 Day to a page diary

2009-10
An officer from the Macro taskforce contacted Mr Redfern and told him that "most" of the items had been destroyed

Police again took him back to the site
Where "they had been digging there, he noticed evidence bags with items inside"

"Police also searched the area in 2002"

Questions;
So what is it?
All the items were destroyed or most?
If most of the items were destroyed then what items do they still have?

When Redfern was taken back to the site in 09-10 what were the items in the evidence bags found at the site? Were they relevant to the JC case?


A search was conducted of the area in 02. What was the reason for this search? Did they find anything?
A large brownish bag doesn’t sound like an evening bag at all seems the only reason It’s connected to Julie is due to the diary being from 88. Doesn’t mean if belonged to her. Someone could have done an unrelated bag snatch and buried the unwanted items to be found later on. I’m not convinced the sand dune items or the clothes left in coffee shop are related to her without DNA confirmation. Too generic
 

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been thinking about how people say it’s unusual nothing else was in her car. I guess it depends on the sort of person she was. I have nothing in my car but my bag which goes with me so I don’t find it unusual but others have half their wardrobe in theirs.
There were other items in the car. Police feel most of it was removed from the car.
 

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is it possible ... that Julie Cutler parked her car early for work...and strolled to get a bite...on the saturday at King Kebabs(late lunch)...and forgot (left behind) her plastic bag containing her work uniform there....
She was to change into her uniform once at work...but she did not have it now...so she used another uniform from the hotel pantry to get by....until another uniform was supplied....
Just need to know if King Kebabs (Centreway Arcade)would of been open on a saturday...(and if she worked on the saturday afternoon or evening shift) prior to the forthcoming sunday...
Her evening dress could of been in the car...as she did go out the car on at least one occasion....
Although Centreways contained small shops that weren't subject to trading hours restrictions, the management of Centreways shut the arcade each day according to the trading hours restrictions in place for the bigger retailers, such as SGIO insurance, whose shop front was accessed within the arcade. The cleaners pulled the roller doors down an hour after trading stopped, and opened then an hour before trading hours began, to allow staff and customers out or in.
This is a screen shot of the original Retail Trading Hours Act as it was written in 1987. It extended trading hours on Saturday from the old 12 Noon finish time to the new finish time of 5PM. It wasn't proclaimed until September 1988 as you can see in the Government Gazette.
So back when Julie disappeared, Centreways would've been closed from the afternoon of Saturday, until Monday morning.
It was a pain for anyone doing overtime at SGIO, as they had to access and exit the building via the underground carpark.
Attachments source»
https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/law_a696_currencies.html
View attachment Retail Trading Hours Act 1987 - [00-00-00].pdf View attachment Gg076.pdf

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Melsy

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My take on it is someone pulled out all the evidence that might have information written in it that would identify the perpetrator. That includes breaking into the flat and checking the wallet where Julie might have written down a number plate.

The champagne flutes were left in there because they posed no risk to finger prints or written identifier of the perpetrator that had tried run her off the road on Stirling Highway in weeks prior. The champagne flutes being left there have no meaning. They just were not of importance to the perp.

They then went to the cafe at a later date and slid the uniform under the table to guise it that Julie disappeared herself or confirm to police she had been murdered. Police have the evidence.

Except the fact that if someone did try to guise Julies murder as a disappearance, they ditched the car in the sea.

At this point, police had their ears up over a serial offender, just by the habits exhibited. They had a violent madman on their hands.

Someone was doing their best Edgar Cooke impersonation.

Girls attacked as they leave posh nightclubs. One more than likely attacked from within her car before she went anywhere at 12.30am.

1988 was a year for him. He was in an environment that lead him to commit the crimes before starting a relationship.

Absolute disturbed megalomaniac.
 
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ShirazOnly

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Although Centreways contained small shops that weren't subject to trading hours restrictions, the management of Centreways shut the arcade each day according to the trading hours restrictions in place for the bigger retailers, such as SGIO insurance, whose shop front was accessed within the arcade. The cleaners pulled the roller doors down an hour after trading stopped, and opened then an hour before trading hours began, to allow staff and customers out or in.
This is a screen shot of the original Retail Trading Hours Act as it was written in 1987. It extended trading hours on Saturday from the old 12 Noon finish time to the new finish time of 5PM. It wasn't proclaimed until September 1988 as you can see in the Government Gazette.
So back when Julie disappeared, Centreways would've been closed from the afternoon of Saturday, until Monday morning.
It was a pain for anyone doing overtime at SGIO, as they had to access and exit the building via the underground carpark.
Attachments source»
https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/law_a696_currencies.html
View attachment 603526 View attachment 603527

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nicely done champ
...again
ps ....are you still my friend.....
 
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Its a lot of what if's isn't it. But what is the point of it? How the glasses got there? How is it relevant? Just asking? Not critic.

It was a staff awards night. You all get a 6 pack of Parmelia champagne flutes and a Hawaiian diary pack to take home with you? Thankyou for your loyalty.
Sure, here's a brand new 1988 day to a page diary, 6mths into the year. Not likely.
As for the bag, the one time Julie goes missing, her uniform turns up slid under table at a nearby cafe. If you had your car, why would you take the uniform out of the car to go for something to eat after stuffing yourself at the staff awards night with free food and alcohol?
She wouldn't, not least because it wasn't open after midnight on a Sunday.

You know, if I had nearly been run off the road a few weeks prior, then another person had been abducted from another 5 star CBD hotel and beaten for 3 hours, I dare say police may have advised hotel admin and staff of the current security risk and female staff were advised not to go to their cars on their own.

Quite normal that female staff might escort other solo staff to their cars under the circumstances of abduction and horrendous injuries. There may be more attempts we don't know about in the year 1988.
Quite likely the reason she didn't go to the car park on her own. There were reports about the Sheraton hiring extra security at the time & she walked another woman out & returned & she was talking to a male employee when she left too so I'd assume they were walking together to the car park. Quite possibly the person who said they saw her go to the passenger side to get into her car & maybe the same person who saw the couple enter the car park after Julie was already in her vehicle.
I think it was a glass of white wine but point taken. She drank, at least socially. Do you think she walked out of her workplace with a full glass of champagne after work or empty? If for keep sakes over a period of time, why leave them in the car? Leave them int he car to roll around. Doesn't sound right.

The Parmelia flutes were the only remaining item left in the vehicle, yes? Other possible alleged items found at Beach Street.
Highly unlikely to be keep sakes. More likely they just didnt have any champagne glasses & she saw a perfect opportunity to take some but they never made it home.
Very much doubt they were the only thing in her car either. When they're looking for a missing woman, her missing clothes in missing bags & her cars been rolling in the surf with enough force to dislodge the rear seat, whatever miscellaneous junk was trapped in the glovebox or the console that didn't find its way to the bottom of ocean would hardly be relevant I'd think. Especially not when they're searching the coastline in the days proceeding half expecting those items to turn up & very quick to admit they were baffled when they didn't. 10c, a spare fuse or a service manual is nothing in those circumstances.
Considering the distance between cafe and Parmelia, I'm surprised the uniform was handed in 12 months later. Was the uniform handed to police or hotel?
You know they've said they were handed to police when they appealed for info again around the 1 year mark & the first the owner knew of any missing items connected to JC.
One thing I noticed, is the car into the ocean was very sort of dramatic. It appeared to attract more attention from the media. Car in ocean certainly made the paper and more publicity by police than usual. Weeks later the naked guy on the beach certainly had me thinking, but as usual, suicide just fades away without communication to the public what happened.
They didnt know anything until they found the car so of course its going to become bigger news when they have something to focus on & it was found within a day or so of being reported missing.
We dont know that the car going in the sea has anything to do with her disappearance though.

A deceased man found naked at the bottom of a cliff less than a km away just weeks later is worthy of a paragraph reporting the incident until they know more but someone's suicide, if thats what it was, isnt the general publics business regardless. There might have been a line or two later to say it wasnt suspicious which went unnoticed & more than likely tacked on to another story about another unrelated death or something, considering the timing.
 
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ShirazOnly

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in someways...it is a pity there were no CCTV at petrol stations in 1988....could of been interesting to follow up footage along that route at various stations....
a car travelling quite a distance surely needs to be toped up....especially in this condition.....
CCTV footage is required to be kept on media format for some time(for the non-payers)....
 

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My take on it is someone pulled out all the evidence that might have information written in it that would identify the perpetrator. That includes breaking into the flat and checking the wallet where Julie might have written down a number plate.
Again that describes someone she knew

At this point, police had their ears up over a serial offender, just by the habits exhibited. They had a violent madman on their hands.

Someone was doing their best Edgar Cooke impersonation.

Girls attacked as they leave posh nightclubs. One more than likely attacked from within her car before she went anywhere at 12.30am.

1988 was a year for him. He was in an environment that lead him to commit the crimes before starting a relationship.

Absolute disturbed megalomaniac.
Might read good in a fiction novel or a tabloid paper or sound great for ACA but its a bit over the top for mine
 

ShirazOnly

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Sure, here's a brand new 1988 day to a page diary, 6mths into the year. Not likely.
She wouldn't, not least because it wasn't open after midnight on a Sunday.

Quite likely the reason she didn't go to the car park on her own. There were reports about the Sheraton hiring extra security at the time & she walked another woman out & returned & she was talking to a male employee when she left too so I'd assume they were walking together to the car park. Quite possibly the person who said they saw her go to the passenger side to get into her car & maybe the same person who saw the couple enter the car park after Julie was already in her vehicle.
Highly unlikely to be keep sakes. More likely they just didnt have any champagne glasses & she saw a perfect opportunity to take some but they never made it home.
Very much doubt they were the only thing in her car either. When they're looking for a missing woman, her missing clothes in missing bags & her cars been rolling in the surf with enough force to dislodge the rear seat, whatever miscellaneous junk was trapped in the glovebox or the console that didn't find its way to the bottom of ocean would hardly be relevant I'd think. Especially not when they're searching the coastline in the days proceeding half expecting those items to turn up & very quick to admit they were baffled when they didn't. 10c, a spare fuse or a service manual is nothing in those circumstances.
You know they've said they were handed to police when they appealed for info again around the 1 year mark & the first the owner knew of any missing items connected to JC.They didnt know anything until they found the car so of course its going to become bigger news when they have something to focus on & it was found within a day or so of being reported missing.
We dont know that the car going in the sea has anything to do with her disappearance though.

A deceased man found naked at the bottom of a cliff less than a km away just weeks later is worthy of a paragraph reporting the incident until they know more but someone's suicide, if thats what it was, isnt the general publics business regardless. There might have been a line or two later to say it wasnt suspicious which went unnoticed & more than likely tacked on to another story about another unrelated death or something, considering the timing.
certainly could not of been a suicide....if ciggs and champagne flutes remained in the car after that chaos....you would think a body would also...
 
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