Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA

GreyCrow

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Thank you. It is like his alleged MO in my eyes.I'm so glad he couldn't rape her but that more than likely made his assault even worse by getting angry that he couldn't get hard
And yet the Karrakatta victim stated he didnt utter a peep
 

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shellyg

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And yet the Karrakatta victim stated he didnt utter a peep
That's what we've been led to believe for a very long time, it now appears that he did speak to make demands. "Shut up". etc. He also took the hood and gag off.

Having already had a minor rant over everything IMO that was wrong with the way KK attack was handled and reported on, I'll just leave this here.

karrakattapress.png
 
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And yet the Karrakatta victim stated he didnt utter a peep
He had to learn his tricks of the trade somewhere. Grabs his first, panics, beats here all the while she's restrained.
He can't rape her so he gets more angry as time goes on.Next time, play it cool & they won't freak out or struggle until I'm ready.
Next time: He has it all right until he hears her parents (unsure of which came first, Huntingdale or Dorothy), he freaks, can't let them see him & bolts.
Next time, he loses his cool & attacks.
Next time, he's cool, calmer & collected but will make sure nobody will interrupt his quest so he does what he does & disposes of Sarah somewhere.
Next time, he does the same because it worked before & he has finally perfected his MO but maybe he feels a little bit of guilt about the first victim not being found so he leaves this one to be found when someone comes across her. All is well, next time will be perfect...
 

GreyCrow

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He had to learn his tricks of the trade somewhere. Grabs his first, panics, beats here all the while she's restrained.
He can't rape her so he gets more angry as time goes on.Next time, play it cool & they won't freak out or struggle until I'm ready.
Next time: He has it all right until he hears her parents (unsure of which came first, Huntingdale or Dorothy), he freaks, can't let them see him & bolts.
Next time, he loses his cool & attacks.
Next time, he's cool, calmer & collected but will make sure nobody will interrupt his quest so he does what he does & disposes of Sarah somewhere.
Next time, he does the same because it worked before & he has finally perfected his MO but maybe he feels a little bit of guilt about the first victim not being found so he leaves this one to be found when someone comes across her. All is well, next time will be perfect...
Has he been charged with this bolded attack?

I'd like to read the court transcripts of the 1990 attack as it is not described as a vicious attack. ie he didnt lose control and start yelling and get angry, it reads as if it was a grab and snatch attempt. This is similar to the Karrakatta attack, I take note that he did utter words , but again in a controlled voice and not out of control angry. (my reading)

5 years and he seems to have the same pattern of behaviour. Sure I cant say for certain but I see a method that worked for him. I cant see him getting angrier. he was cold and calculating rather than out of control in my opinion

We shall know more as the trial progresses
 
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One thing is for certain, media will make a fool of you.

You must be forgiven for discrepancies, because you can only go on what you are given.

The media has contradictions. You still must take risks and assumptions on what you have.
err, no. Things go through my head & I like to discuss them & get others opinions/thoughts on the subject. I didn't learn of Dorothy through the media, I learnt about her through this forum.
Wasn't it you Melsy only a week or so ago talking about the speedway again?
 

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Doesnt fit the MO of dump and run

Buried indicates (to me) someone familiar enough with the area and centre to know they have the time to dig a grave. Again to me that indicates handyman/gardener. And that is only speculation.
The alleged claremont killer grabbed his victims and drove them to be "dumped" outside of the city limits. If someone was to use the Arts Centre as a burial site they would more than likely have a very good knowledge of the area and be very comfortable spending large amounts of time digging a grave deep enough that a body has never been found. I just don't see it. The amount of confidence one would have to have to commit the crime, dig a hole, maneuver a lifeless body (which is a lot of weight) from wherever it is into the hole and then fill the hole is just unbelievable.

We know Sarah was heading to Mosman Park, we don't know if she got there but screaming seems to be significant although there was also a car parked facing in the wrong direction on the road.

Screams at Cottesloe, across from where Julie Cutler's car was found in the sea.

I accept that screams alone with Julie aren't going to cut it here nor does it point towards who actually killed her but we might be getting there .......
I am sure everyone here has stayed in a hotel around a busy precinct or somewhere near were people may walk from a nightlife area to apartments etc and you hear some loud screams, yells etc that sound a lot worse in the dark of night than they obviously are. I give very little weight to the reports of people hearing screams on a weekend night.
 

shellyg

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I am sure everyone here has stayed in a hotel around a busy precinct or somewhere near were people may walk from a nightlife area to apartments etc and you hear some loud screams, yells etc that sound a lot worse in the dark of night than they obviously are. I give very little weight to the reports of people hearing screams on a weekend night.
It was late on a Sunday night the screams were heard.

Would you also give very little weight to reports of screams heard in notable locations the night Sarah Spiers and Jane Rimmer were murdered as proposed by the defence at directions?
 
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The alleged claremont killer grabbed his victims and drove them to be "dumped" outside of the city limits. If someone was to use the Arts Centre as a burial site they would more than likely have a very good knowledge of the area and be very comfortable spending large amounts of time digging a grave deep enough that a body has never been found. I just don't see it. The amount of confidence one would have to have to commit the crime, dig a hole, maneuver a lifeless body (which is a lot of weight) from wherever it is into the hole and then fill the hole is just unbelievable.


I am sure everyone here has stayed in a hotel around a busy precinct or somewhere near were people may walk from a nightlife area to apartments etc and you hear some loud screams, yells etc that sound a lot worse in the dark of night than they obviously are. I give very little weight to the reports of people hearing screams on a weekend night.
I live practically on a train line close to where the three victims were taken so I hear all sorts of things on weekend nights. Yelling, arguing but never THAT kind of screaming. I've only called the cops once & that was because two guys were arguing & threatening to cross the trainline so they could fight the guy on the other side. I was worried he'd get hit by a train trying to do that
 

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It was late on a Sunday night the screams were heard.

Would you also give very little weight to reports of screams heard in notable locations the night Sarah Spiers and Jane Rimmer were murdered as proposed by the defence at directions?
Sunday sessions are renowned in Perth so the fact it was a Sunday doesn't sway me. As for the other two reports, I'd have to hear more about who heard them and how they heard it. I live in a sleepy street/area, would hear screams/yells on average 3-4 nights a year from someone partying/drinking or whatever. I find the correlation to be just that, can easily be a coincidence and if it is as simple saying I heard a scream I can't give too much weight to it unless they documented it, told others, remembered it for some other unusual reason.
 
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It was late on a Sunday night the screams were heard.

Would you also give very little weight to reports of screams heard in notable locations the night Sarah Spiers and Jane Rimmer were murdered as proposed by the defence at directions?
see above but, if I heard anyone screaming, I'd be calling the cops. You can tell the difference between a scream just because your drunk & pissed off you might have missed the last train & one filled with terror & pain. I bet those screams haunt those whoheard them all the time
 

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tryitout

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I live practically on a train line close to where the three victims were taken so I hear all sorts of things on weekend nights. Yelling, arguing but never THAT kind of screaming. I've only called the cops once & that was because two guys were arguing & threatening to cross the trainline so they could fight the guy on the other side. I was worried he'd get hit by a train trying to do that
How do you know you've never heard that kind of screaming if you've never heard it? Not trying to be an arse but curious as to why you'd think you would know the difference.
 

shellyg

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Sunday sessions are renowned in Perth so the fact it was a Sunday doesn't sway me. As for the other two reports, I'd have to hear more about who heard them and how they heard it. I live in a sleepy street/area, would hear screams/yells on average 3-4 nights a year from someone partying/drinking or whatever. I find the correlation to be just that, can easily be a coincidence and if it is as simple saying I heard a scream I can't give too much weight to it unless they documented it, told others, remembered it for some other unusual reason.
It's recently released information on the Cutler murder and I don't think it's a coincidence. Cutler's car was found dumped in the surf at Cottesloe, across the road screams were heard iirc by a school teacher who reported it. This was previously unknown information.

Now we're told at directions screams were heard at locations significant to both Jane and Sarah the night they were taken.

I'm recognising a pattern in the way information is being rolled out, in a similar way to the CSK prior to arrest. I won't be surprised to read later that they have forensic evidence we aren't aware of.
 

shellyg

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How do you know you've never heard that kind of screaming if you've never heard it? Not trying to be an arse but curious as to why you'd think you would know the difference.
I know that kind of screaming, most women probably do even if it's when they had a fight with their brother and he dragged them by the hair or something ... we know it.
 

tryitout

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It's recently released information on the Cutler murder and I don't think it's a coincidence. Cutler's car was found dumped in the surf at Cottesloe, across the road screams were heard iirc by a school teacher who reported it. This was previously unknown information.

Now we're told at directions screams were heard at significant to both Jane and Sarah the night they were taken.

I'm recognising a pattern in the way information is being rolled out, in a similar way to the CSK prior to arrest. I won't be surprised to read later that they have forensic evidence we aren't aware of.
So these screams are so blood curdling and unmistakable that only one person in the whole area hears them? Again, they may have happened and I have heard screams that have made me leap up out of bed before and look out the window to see what was going on, concerned that something was happening, only to see drunk people having an argument.
 
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How do you know you've never heard that kind of screaming if you've never heard it? Not trying to be an arse but curious as to why you'd think you would know the difference.
you're from Perth yeah? This should make you understand why I'd know the difference. I lived in Midland on my own for roughly 8 years in a duplex. I called the cops twice but one was because it sounded like they were throwing their kids around while screaming at each other. I'd know the difference I believe. I was scared for months that they'd work out I called the cops & they might poison my dog. Dramatic I know but, 1. It was Midland & 2. kids sounded like they getting beaten too
 

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So these screams are so blood curdling and unmistakable that only one person in the whole area hears them? Again, they may have happened and I have heard screams that have made me leap up out of bed before and look out the window to see what was going on, concerned that something was happening, only to see drunk people having an argument.
Drunk people having an argument, which I hear as well and recognise almost straight away is an entirely different scenario and sound to hearing one woman screaming in frustration, rage and hopeless fear. IMO.

Anyhoo, its not just about the screaming its when and where the screaming was. We shall see.
 
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So these screams are so blood curdling and unmistakable that only one person in the whole area hears them? Again, they may have happened and I have heard screams that have made me leap up out of bed before and look out the window to see what was going on, concerned that something was happening, only to see drunk people having an argument.
but at least you checked it out. Others have to live knowing they knew that wasn't a normal scream they heard with drunk people & they still didn't go & check it out. In all fairness though, Ithink it would have been too late by the time they had a look outside.They victims would have already been long gone
 

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and this weekend is the weekend Jane disappeared.It's strange knowing what pain this brings to her family & that the public know there's a man awaiting a trial for her rape & murder amongst others :(
Pardon? Jane went missing in June. SS in January. CG in March.
Edit - meant to add theres no charges of sexual assault in conjunction with the murdered girls. You can draw your own conclusions but I dont care to speculate. That their lives were taken is too much imo.
 
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one eyed spy

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It's recently released information on the Cutler murder and I don't think it's a coincidence. Cutler's car was found dumped in the surf at Cottesloe, across the road screams were heard iirc by a school teacher who reported it. This was previously unknown information.
Screams in Cott new?

Unless there was a few reports that night or they recently spoke to someone new, they'd been reported before. Explained away previously as a group having an argument from memory. Brief mention though.
 

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err, no. Things go through my head & I like to discuss them & get others opinions/thoughts on the subject. I didn't learn of Dorothy through the media, I learnt about her through this forum.
Wasn't it you Melsy only a week or so ago talking about the speedway again?
Yeah what ever. You've been here 5 minutes.

Look at Shelly's post about the Karraktta rape.

Have you a source to give allegations context to your innuendo?

Yes, the speedway. Another user on this site who has police contacts apparently, gives me reason to believe he could have been to the Speedway on the Friday nights of Sarah and Ciara first. He had close relationship with speedway entities.

Sarah was 2.15am Sat morn I think.

Ciara went missing just after midnight on Saturday morning.

The Karrakatta assault started with the car parked at the speedway subway.

I wont be surprised if we hear the Speedway was a place of familiarity to him and he visited there prior.

In regards to Cutler, another victim with the pseudonym Dorothy was abducted by a man wearing gloves and he allegedly tied him in a steel seat in the yellow Corolla or similar vehicle. Steel seats are common for racing.

The alleged attacker beat Dorothy for hours, punching her in the back until her bowels gave way.

The abduction was between Cutlers first attempt which ceased around Eric st, near the telephone exchange occupied by the current Claremont accused.
 
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shellyg

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Screams in Cott new?

Unless there was a few reports that night or they recently spoke to someone new, they'd been reported before. Explained away previously as a group having an argument from memory. Brief mention though.
Rowdy revellers yelling I'd seen somewhere before. No mention of a woman staying in a motel hearing a woman scream that I can recall.
 

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I think potentially Cutler could have been stored at a bunker aka exchange on Stirling highway at 1 Congdon st for a couple of hours while her car was disposed off.

Cutlers car was driven into the sea opposite Forrest street to destroy evidence in the saltwater and dent the car up.

The perp then can walk back to the exchange with little way to walk and deal with Cutler in a second car. Pending someone had access to the exchange on Stirling highway.

All supposition.
 
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