Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

[BFew]

Inquest into the Suspected death of Julie CUTLER

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Inquest_2023/CUTLER, Julie Leanne.pdf (49 pages)
'[2023] WACOR 19
JURISDICTION : CORONER'S COURT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA
ACT : CORONERS ACT 1996
CORONER : SARAH HELEN LINTON, DEPUTY STATE CORONER HEARD :
3 - 4 NOVEMBER 2022 DELIVERED : 6 APRIL 2023
FILE NO/S : CORC 830 of 2019
DECEASED : CUTLER, JULIE LEANNE'

 

[Dan Baker]

1. The vehicle would have made it 8 foot into the water then drifted not far.

2. If the drift is south, the body would have ended up in the rocks or on the beach

3. If they didn't search south, how did they find the back seat?

 

[Kurve]

1. The vehicle would have made it 8 foot into the water then drifted not far.

2. If the drift is south, the body would have ended up in the rocks or on the beach

3. If they didn't search south, how did they find the back seat?

1. Are you assuming in this scenario the Fiat went over the Groyne and drifted against the current?
2. Goes to ascertaining whether Julie was in the car or not.
3. The back seat was found washed up the day prior to the Fiat by beachgoers

 

[Kurve]

We don't need it to establish anything.

The back seat is key, how long it took on the CURRENTS to wind it's way out and wash up most important. Spotted many hours later but on the same day as Julie was last seen, it may have been possible to get a reasonably accurate timeline out of studying the unusual ocean patterns and weather at Cott Beach.

 

[Dan Baker]

She is obviously an expert as the Leeuwen current doesn't impact the beach that much. Tell her to find the inshore modelling done. You will note the blue inshore areas are not moving that much and are further influenced by swell etc.

Just one of the reasons ^^^^^^ Dan Baker If the investigation was 'perfect', this case may have been solved.

The back seat was made of rubber. Personally I feel the back seat was removed as there was DNA which was cleaned off and someone needed it in the washing machine, and the seat be found by police when they intended the car sunk below the swell.

The back seat is key, how long it took on the CURRENTS to wind it's way out and wash up most important. Spotted many hours later but on the same day as Julie was last seen, it may have been possible to get a reasonably accurate timeline out of studying the unusual ocean patterns and weather at Cott Beach.

 

[Dan Baker]

Look at the picture. There's your answer. The car was only in the water a couple of days. Swimmers would have found it earlier if they had gone swimming.

"Her car was found in the surf near the groyne at Cottesloe Beach two days later."

Like I said, we don''t need pages of weather data and argument over something irrelevant.

 

[GreyCrow]

Just one of the reasons ^^^^^^ Dan Baker If the investigation was 'perfect', this case may have been solved.

Or if Dan was on the case day 1

 

[GreyCrow]

The back seat was made of rubber. Personally I feel the back seat was removed as there was DNA which was cleaned off and someone needed it in the washing machine, and the seat be found by police when they intended the car sunk below the swell.

Not sure I agree with this. It seems overkill. Take the back seat out, wash it so evidence is destroyed, then put the whole car in the water so evidence can be washed away. Too much over-thinking.

You may be right it just seems unnecessary

 

[Kurve]

The back seat was made of rubber. Personally I feel the back seat was removed as there was DNA which was cleaned off and someone needed it in the washing machine, and the seat be found by police when they intended the car sunk below the swell.

The back seat was plastics, a documented floater. You're suggesting two risky dumping events when only one was necessary and the back seat ended up in relation to the Fiat, exactly where we would expect it to on the currents. Rationally, in all likelihood there was only one dumping event.

 

[Dan Baker]

Someone who likes to dabble in car mods? Being mindful the POI Caporn focused on had access to a mechanic shop. Yellow Toyota or Datsun?

 

[BlueE]

"Haven’t you read all about Peter Kurtin? Nah didn’t think so. Thought you’d be all over that from Smarty."

What are you talking about here,
With reading about peter kurtin ?

Where is this writing please ?

Sorry wrong spelling and this came from a conversation on the SK thread with Smarty questioning who was playing some of the characters in the Copycat movie and Peter Kurten.

In one scene in the Copycat movie serial killer Peter Foley uses the name Peter Kurten. This is a a reference to the so called "Vampire of Dusseldorf", on whose activities Fritz Lang's M (1931) was based.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_(film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kürten

The wiki on Peter Kurten has a very interesting psychological study of this SK. Including ...

As Kürten awaited his trial, then later as he awaited his execution, he was extensively interviewed by Dr. Karl Berg.[82] In these interviews, Kürten stated to Dr. Berg that his primary motive in committing any form of criminal activity was one of sexual pleasure, and that he had begun to associate sexual excitement with violent acts and the sight of blood via indulging in both day-dreams and masturbation fantasies — particularly when he had been isolated from human contact.[76] The majority of his assaults and murders had been committed when his wife had been working evenings, and the number of stab or bludgeoning wounds Kürten inflicted upon each victim had varied depending upon the length of time it had taken him to achieve an orgasm. Furthermore, the actual sight of his victim's blood had been integral to his sexual stimulation. Kürten further elaborated to Dr. Berg that once he had committed an attack or murder, the feeling of tension he experienced prior to the commission of the crime would be superseded by one of relief.[83]

He also confessed that many of his later strangulation victims had only survived his attacks because he had achieved an orgasm in the early throes of the assault.[85]

Smarty I'm intrigued. How did the movie end again for the characters P and C?

 

[BlueE]

Someone who likes to dabble in car mods? Being mindful the POI Caporn focused on had access to a mechanic shop. Yellow Toyota or Datsun?

I can not believe you are still here after your idiosyncratic beliefs and multiple posts of the same information that contradict any rational argument.
Only one person is Dumb and Dumber!
Half the population like to dabble in cars so are you going to post their houses on this thread!

 

[metic]

We don't need it to establish anything. So your saying a 20year old drove a car off the club driveway down the beach to fake her death?

Ill go with you have fallen for a serial killers MO at times.

1. The car had to drive in the water

2. There were no possessions found from within the vehicle

3. The body was not in the car

4. The two front windows were open but the chances a body float out these, especially when roof flat equals very low

5. Julie drove the car across the beach into the water. Did she do rally much?

6. Her father and police have a description of the car and its colour that pursued her

So this picture you posted is actually a picture i originally posted on WS .
Can you explain what the picture means
re: the car on top ?
What car is that car ?

 

[metic]

The car upon retrieval cottesloe beach

 

[metic]

Number plate not to be seen

You can see the condition of the beach on the day in picture. The sand isnt very compressed here but you can study the weather on the previous days to make an evaluation. That is if , you can read a weather analysis .

 

[Dan Baker]

And that's why cars have vin numbers in case number plate is no longer on vehicle.

So this picture you posted is actually a picture i originally posted on WS .
Can you explain what the picture means
re: the car on top ?
What car is that car ?

Which image? You have posted several hundred of them?

Read - the - posts!

The front driver's side window was open, both front doors were unlocked and the rear doors were locked. Forensic tests determined the ignition and headlights of Julie's car had been on when the car entered the water.

"I believe she was never in the car... I believe that Julie was murdered and that the body was buried or secreted somewhere else before the car was dumped in the ocean."
https://www.mamamia.com.au/missing-australian-women/

Julie finished her shift at a posh central Perth hotel late on the Sunday night, donned her fast-gear and aimed for the dance floor. The Parmelia Hilton was holding a staff awards night and Julie Cutler was invited.

At around 12.30 am the next morning, Monday 20th June, wearing a high-collared black evening dress, with gold buttons on the shoulder, and a pair of black patent leather shoes Julie leaves the nightclub and heads for the staff car park. She is seen by another member of staff unlocking the passenger side door of her car (apparently the driver’s side door could not be opened from the outside). A witness spots Julie sitting in the front of her car in the car park and rummaging through her bag. It is the last known sighting of her.

Later that same day a car’s backseat was retrieved from the sea, near the groyne, at Cottesloe Beach. According to newspaper reports, it wasn’t until the afternoon of Wednesday, the 22nd June that the car the seat belonged to was noticed - upside-down in the surf close to Cottesloe Beach groyne that points like a wand west and towards the environs of Rottnest Island. The car, a Fiat 125 was Julie's.

The ‘West Australian’ newspaper, which had been rather quiet about Julie's disappearance, announced on page 8 of its 23rd June edition, that Julie’s 1963 (sic) Fiat sedan had been found early on Wednesday afternoon, in the surf next to the groyne at Cottesloe Beach. They said that Det. Sgt. Vince Katich, who is in charge of the investigation, is mystified and remained open- minded regarding what might have happened to Julie.

On Friday 24th June 1988, on page 3 (a whole 5 pages more prominence) the ‘West Australian’ reports that the back seat of Julie’s car was found in the sea, near the groyne, on Monday. The car was discovered 35 metres from the beach and had been left with its ignition and lights on, front driver’s side window open, rear doors locked and both front doors unlocked. Det. Sgt. Katich is appealing for a man and a woman seen exiting the hotel just after Julie to come forward. Police also appeal for anyone who saw Julie’s car parked either on the slip road near the surf club or nearby to contact them.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-14

 

[Dan Baker]

I think police will be revisiting the WAIT (WA Institute of Technology) aka Curtain university records as they did in establishing another POI attended a course there as did Cutler in Theatre.

You can see how that POI came under great suspicion. Never mind circling the block in a new car, but owning a unit by Cottesloe beach would have drawn more suspicion. Talk about tick all the boxes.

As you can see, the other victim as dumped next to Curtain University. Julies father (Roger Cutler) lived in Kalgoorlie, Julie in Fremantle somewhere.

 

[GreyCrow]

Stop spamming the thread with content about irrelevant weather.

As opposed to regular map spamming?

 

[metic]

Weather info .
Swell graph of june 1988 showing huge swells before the car was found.

 

[metic]

And that's why cars have vin numbers in case number plate is no longer on vehicle.



Which image? You have posted several hundred of them?

Read - the - posts!

The front driver's side window was open, both front doors were unlocked and the rear doors were locked. Forensic tests determined the ignition and headlights of Julie's car had been on when the car entered the water.

"I believe she was never in the car... I believe that Julie was murdered and that the body was buried or secreted somewhere else before the car was dumped in the ocean."
https://www.mamamia.com.au/missing-australian-women/

Julie finished her shift at a posh central Perth hotel late on the Sunday night, donned her fast-gear and aimed for the dance floor. The Parmelia Hilton was holding a staff awards night and Julie Cutler was invited.

At around 12.30 am the next morning, Monday 20th June, wearing a high-collared black evening dress, with gold buttons on the shoulder, and a pair of black patent leather shoes Julie leaves the nightclub and heads for the staff car park. She is seen by another member of staff unlocking the passenger side door of her car (apparently the driver’s side door could not be opened from the outside). A witness spots Julie sitting in the front of her car in the car park and rummaging through her bag. It is the last known sighting of her.

Later that same day a car’s backseat was retrieved from the sea, near the groyne, at Cottesloe Beach. According to newspaper reports, it wasn’t until the afternoon of Wednesday, the 22nd June that the car the seat belonged to was noticed - upside-down in the surf close to Cottesloe Beach groyne that points like a wand west and towards the environs of Rottnest Island. The car, a Fiat 125 was Julie's.

The ‘West Australian’ newspaper, which had been rather quiet about Julie's disappearance, announced on page 8 of its 23rd June edition, that Julie’s 1963 (sic) Fiat sedan had been found early on Wednesday afternoon, in the surf next to the groyne at Cottesloe Beach. They said that Det. Sgt. Vince Katich, who is in charge of the investigation, is mystified and remained open- minded regarding what might have happened to Julie.

On Friday 24th June 1988, on page 3 (a whole 5 pages more prominence) the ‘West Australian’ reports that the back seat of Julie’s car was found in the sea, near the groyne, on Monday. The car was discovered 35 metres from the beach and had been left with its ignition and lights on, front driver’s side window open, rear doors locked and both front doors unlocked. Det. Sgt. Katich is appealing for a man and a woman seen exiting the hotel just after Julie to come forward. Police also appeal for anyone who saw Julie’s car parked either on the slip road near the surf club or nearby to contact them.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-14

"According to newspaper reports, it wasn’t until the afternoon of Wednesday, the 22nd June that the car the seat belonged to was noticed - upside-down in the surf close to Cottesloe Beach groyne that points like a wand west and towards the environs of Rottnest Island."

Cottesloe groyne doesn't look like it points westward, more like norwest.
These newspaper reporters are clueless.

https://goo.gl/images/mxmC2c

 

[Dan Baker]

I can see how Robyn Santen may have disappeared because she could have swam some distance. Similar crime, car at the beach, woman disappears.

Interesting circumstances though that Robyn Paton did a thesis on "Limitations of ASR for Wetland Restoration in the Perth Basin Robyn" at UWA, and keeping in with potential criminal group target names, Mott meets swamp [Lisa Mott]. Not saying perpetrator just potential copycats.
Paton was an ex clubby aka surf club member.

Anyrate, I cant see Cutler vanishing from the car, let alone driving down the surf club slipway and making it to the water on her own.

As it was, a male body turned up days after which had my ears twitching at the time. However, nothing more was said, which lead me to the assumption of suicide.

I think it is as the police officer said. Julie has been murdered. This fits in with a MO of reducing the heat by leaving little to no trail.

Why did Robyn take a beach towel anyrate? Keys left on the seat. There is still no body or clothing from Robyn. Nothing.

Julie went on the winter solstice, Robyn disappeared in similar circumstances on the imbolc. Similar incidents.

Still waiting to hear if Robyn went to Iona, her friends certainly did. Robyns inquest finding was open.

Imbolc or Imbolg (/ɪˈmɒlɡ/ i-MOLG), also called (Saint) Brigid's Day (Irish: Lá Fhéile Bríde, Scottish Gaelic: Là Fhèill Brìghde, Manx: Laa'l Breeshey), is a Gaelic traditional festival marking the beginning of spring. Most commonly it is held on 1 February, or about halfway between the winter solstice and the spring equinox.[1][2] Historically, it was widely observed throughout Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man. It is one of the four Gaelic seasonal festivals—along with Beltane, Lughnasadh and Samhain[3]—and corresponds to the Welsh Gŵyl Fair y Canhwyllau. For Christians, especially in Ireland, it is the feast day of Saint Brigid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbolc

http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/...yn_louise_santen.aspx?uid=5721-5789-0451-4615

At times, the mo is a disappearing act. What have we not heard?

 

[Dan Baker]

Julie Cutler June 20 1988. - Cutlers car is driven down the slip ramp, into the water in order to disguise the dents put in the car when she was run off the road by a madman. Winter solstice. Vanishes, no body. *Bag found in Kings cafe

Robyn Paton Santen August 8 2015. - So the environmental scientist is dropped off by a cab, is given a note by her husband, drives off in her car, down to the beach on the imbolc. Everything is inside the car. Vanishes, no body. *Coroner Barry King said it was clear Mrs Santen was deceased but noted it was unlikely he could reach a finding on the cause of death.

Corryn Rayney August 7 2007. - The mother of two girls vanishes at 9.30pm . *Found in Kings Park, no clearly established cause of death. She was last seen alive at 9.30 p.m. on 7 August 2007 at a bootscooting class, Bentley Community Centre.

 

[metic]

Cutlers car is driven down the slip ramp, into the water in order to disguise the dents put in the car when she was run off the road by a madman. Winter solstice. Vanishes, no body. *Bag found in Kings cafe

Robyn Paton Santen August 8 2015. - So the environmental scientist is dropped off by a cab, is given a note by her husband, drives off in her car, down to the beach on the imbolc. Everything is inside the car. Vanishes, no body. *Coroner Barry King said it was clear Mrs Santen was deceased but noted it was unlikely he could reach a finding on the cause of death.

Corryn Rayney August 7 2007. - The mother of two girls vanishes at 9.30pm . *Found in Kings Park, no clearly established cause of death. She was last seen alive at 9.30 p.m. on 7 August 2007 at a bootscooting class.

"Cutlers car is driven down the slip ramp, into the water in order to disguise the dents put in the car when she was run off the road by a madman. Winter solstice."

Just a few days ago you were saying that the ocean damaged the car .
Do you think both forces contributed to the damage dan baker ?

 

[Dan Baker]

"Cutlers car is driven down the slip ramp, into the water in order to disguise the dents put in the car when she was run off the road by a madman. Winter solstice."
Just a few days ago you were saying that the ocean damaged the car .
Do you think both forces contributed to the damage dan baker ?

Yep, driven down in the water where wave impact damaged the car, disguising any pre-existing dents created in the vehicle when the madman has yet again run her off the road. Although, saltwater washing machine will get rid of DNA, as does setting a car on fire in Dance street, Middleswan.

Here you can see Curtain University where Cutler attended, Centenary Park where pseudonym Dorothy was left for dead, and the Bentley community hall where Rayney was last seen at boot scooting in a cluster.

 

[metic]

Tide chart for the month of june 1988 fremantle WA.


Sun 19 11:09 AM WST / 0.99 m 9:00 PM WST / 0.53 m 7:16 AM WST 5:19 PM WST

Mon 20 11:23 AM WST / 0.95 m 9:04 PM WST / 0.56 m 7:17 AM WST 5:20 PM WST

Tue 21 11:27 AM WST / 0.90 m 8:57 PM WST / 0.59 m 7:17 AM WST 5:20 PM WST

Wed 22 9:30 AM WST / 0.85 m 8:34 PM WST / 0.61 m
First Quarter waxing 7:17 AM WST 5:20 PM WST .

With this tide chart link it shows only a SMALL Tidal Range predicted for the period 19th june to 22nd june 1988 .



http://tides.mobilegeographics.com/calendar/month/2037.html?y=1988&m=6&d=20

Have explained this in previous posts many times that I think this tide movement was minor and is not an important factor in sleuthing the car mystery .
There is however, other factors involved with the conditions of the ocean. Mostly waves and currents .

 

[Dan Baker]

Please use the quote system. Thats what it is there for.

Have explained this in previous posts many times that I think this tide movement was minor and is not an important factor in sleuthing the car mystery .
There is however, other factors involved with the conditions of the ocean. Mostly waves and currents .

That is correct, over and over and over showing off your weather diatribe.

There were no remnant clothing or possessions found in the car. No ripped evening gown, nothing.

Cigarette butts found in ash tray. That's all. I believe police forensics in saying she was not in the vehicle at the time of entering the water.

I don't believe Julie drove down the slip ramp across the sand and into the water at speed then climbed out the window in the night immersed in rough water, 2 days after her disappearance.

I believe Julies killer drove down the slipway into the water. Possibly someone with experience in doing this. Warner had a girl go missing from the Cott Surf club, but killer never found.

Santen is ex surf club member of Scarborough. They do hold inter-club comps. She went UWA.

Where was the car stashed on the night before being driven into water the night after? Why didn't she just drive it in the water the same night? What happened in between? Winter Solstice?

A male body rolled up on the beach 9 days later. There's your current modelling.

And i noticed...you are Mentally Unwell
With serious social problems .
It's easy to see because as they say 'it takes one to know one' .

No and no. I only have issues in this thread and the CSK thread. The rest of the internets I don't have argument. Just here. With some people of dubious character.

My life is perfect. My best friend is a psych. She would let me know if I had mental issues. A police psych said I fall into the autism spectrum. We have known each other for years.

I have a personal interest in being here, and that is a private matter and no one else's business.