Theres a precedent for a jumper representign a minority
The kokoda one
The kokoda one
-
LIVE: Richmond v Melbourne - 7:25PM Wed
Squiggle tips Demons at 77% chance -- What's your tip? -- Team line-ups »
Jumper for Indigenous Round?
- Thread starter Collins-Langford-Ayres
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Kokoda jumper would be more a glorification of war ... if you were to take that bizarre view of course.
- Mar 23, 2007
- 34,930
- 23,534
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Man U, Canucks and 49ers
- Thread starter
- #78
Confirmed we'll be wearing an indigenous round jumper.
Can't wait to see what it looks like.
Can't wait to see what it looks like.
The move of society away from racist attitudes came about because people were brave enough to talk about and, in some cases, go to war over it. All men and women are created equal. I believe that. The are only made unequal through one thought: 'You are different'. From this thought we build up an enormous amount of emotion upon which we build our identity. This doesn't mean we harbor ill will towards others, we just see them as different. We grow up 'knowing' how disadvantaged indigenous Australians are; how poor they are; how alcohol dependent they are; how criminal they are...we 'know' these things and we define ourselves against them.
Bolt knows this. He plays on it. When he writes against measures to recognize indigenous Australians he wants you to feel like your identity is under threat. He wants you to feel like someone different is being held up higher than you; that in order to appreciate this group of people you need to sacrifice something...your own self worth, your sense of place, something about who you are and your status in society. Bottom line, he wants you to feel like celebrating indigenous Australians is an act of theft and/or betrayal. Bolt does not give a stuff about indigenous welfare and vehemently campaigns for the legal capacity to denigrate people on the basis of their race. He wants to make you angry because angry people stop thinking and start feeling their way through problems and when you have spent a life time thinking one way about an issue no amount of logic is going to penetrate your emotion...that is it won't if you close your mind and fail to recognise the cognitive road blocks to understanding.
Indigenous round is about confronting some of the frames through which we view indigenous Australians. If we recognise and accept indigenous Australians as a successful and important group it becomes difficult to see them as a lessor or disadvantaged people. If we celebrate with them it becomes difficult to see them as other. And that is the bottom line. On their own our beliefs left unchallenged will not change. We will continue to see indigenous people as other. Even if we don't hate them (as most of us don't) we can never really accept them as one of us. But indigenous round is more than just a means of combating the mindset of white people.
I recently found out that my great grand father might have been part indigenous. I say might because no one really knows for sure. He grew up in a time in which been indigenous was a social death sentence. Without a white identity he would have been trapped on the fringe...or even worse. So his parentage was obscured and his indigenous heritage shed. He had to give up something of who he was so that he could gain acceptance from white society. He had to live a lie. He had to live in shame and fear of anyone finding out who he really was beneath his skin. How many others live like that today? Giving up one weekend of footy a year to give indigenous Australians an opportunity to recognise they have a lot to be proud of as well as give people an opportunity to challenge life long held beliefs is a small step in the right direction. It is a challenge for us all to recognise our own issues with these actions as a function of our defense mechanisms.
Bolt knows this. He plays on it. When he writes against measures to recognize indigenous Australians he wants you to feel like your identity is under threat. He wants you to feel like someone different is being held up higher than you; that in order to appreciate this group of people you need to sacrifice something...your own self worth, your sense of place, something about who you are and your status in society. Bottom line, he wants you to feel like celebrating indigenous Australians is an act of theft and/or betrayal. Bolt does not give a stuff about indigenous welfare and vehemently campaigns for the legal capacity to denigrate people on the basis of their race. He wants to make you angry because angry people stop thinking and start feeling their way through problems and when you have spent a life time thinking one way about an issue no amount of logic is going to penetrate your emotion...that is it won't if you close your mind and fail to recognise the cognitive road blocks to understanding.
Indigenous round is about confronting some of the frames through which we view indigenous Australians. If we recognise and accept indigenous Australians as a successful and important group it becomes difficult to see them as a lessor or disadvantaged people. If we celebrate with them it becomes difficult to see them as other. And that is the bottom line. On their own our beliefs left unchallenged will not change. We will continue to see indigenous people as other. Even if we don't hate them (as most of us don't) we can never really accept them as one of us. But indigenous round is more than just a means of combating the mindset of white people.
I recently found out that my great grand father might have been part indigenous. I say might because no one really knows for sure. He grew up in a time in which been indigenous was a social death sentence. Without a white identity he would have been trapped on the fringe...or even worse. So his parentage was obscured and his indigenous heritage shed. He had to give up something of who he was so that he could gain acceptance from white society. He had to live a lie. He had to live in shame and fear of anyone finding out who he really was beneath his skin. How many others live like that today? Giving up one weekend of footy a year to give indigenous Australians an opportunity to recognise they have a lot to be proud of as well as give people an opportunity to challenge life long held beliefs is a small step in the right direction. It is a challenge for us all to recognise our own issues with these actions as a function of our defense mechanisms.
- Sep 27, 2012
- 28,095
- 55,431
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Bushrangers Tottenham Hotspur
What minority is that?
soldiers
soldiers who suffered loss of life to defend our country so we n argue about indigenous rounds
damn glad I wasn't one one of them
- Sep 27, 2012
- 28,095
- 55,431
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Bushrangers Tottenham Hotspur
That is not a minority.
- Jan 30, 2014
- 4,006
- 9,125
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Indigenous round and alternate footy strips should be like this forum and it's threads.
You like, you buy (or here you read and respond), You no like, just keep moving down the road.
Why rail against something you can just ignore? You know, live and let live, cause I'm really not sure how celebrating our first residents diminishes anyone else?
For me, I'd love it if we could get the design of the strip right and would certainly buy one. But I also don't wait for one day of the year to celebrate the indigenous people of this great land, nor fail to explore my shame at how stacked a deck a Western society like ours squeezes suffocatingly tight these proud people and leaves their frailties exposed.
Just as my white skinned no ability to survive in the desert would look pretty pathetic trying to make it 3 days in the Simpson, so would it be nice for our western culture to realize how impossibly prepared and designed are the Aboriginal people of Australia to make much use of the way we like to do things.
But mostly I hope they get the design of these jumpers right
.
You like, you buy (or here you read and respond), You no like, just keep moving down the road.
Why rail against something you can just ignore? You know, live and let live, cause I'm really not sure how celebrating our first residents diminishes anyone else?
For me, I'd love it if we could get the design of the strip right and would certainly buy one. But I also don't wait for one day of the year to celebrate the indigenous people of this great land, nor fail to explore my shame at how stacked a deck a Western society like ours squeezes suffocatingly tight these proud people and leaves their frailties exposed.
Just as my white skinned no ability to survive in the desert would look pretty pathetic trying to make it 3 days in the Simpson, so would it be nice for our western culture to realize how impossibly prepared and designed are the Aboriginal people of Australia to make much use of the way we like to do things.
But mostly I hope they get the design of these jumpers right
.
If you say it differently, I might give you the thumbs up.
I have a deep respect for soldiers and those who fight to protect democracy as we know it now, and am a big supporter of the initiative wrt the indigenous round.
you don't think so? well I differ. they are only small part of the polity and that is a minority .in my opinion anyway
well you phrase it any way yu like with my blessing........... I most certainly meant it respectfully and used soldiers as a minority group s the topic was Kokoda
Soldiers deserve respect for the sacrifice they have made for this country, no doubt. The term minority group would not normally apply to them in the way you are using it though. Typically that phrase is used to describe socially subordinate groups which doesn't really apply to Soldiers who are typically revered and quite often assume leadership positions in society. The term minority group centrally describes power relations although according to wikkipedia it is often confused with a statistical minority in the way you have so don't feel too bad about the mistake!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group
Davo23
Brownlow Medallist
Veteran
10k Posts
Hawthorn Hawks - Conor Nash Player Sponsor 2021
Hawthorn Hawks - James Cousins Player Sponsor 2021
Hawthorn Hawks - Conor Nash Player Sponsor 2020
Hawthorn Hawks - James Cousins Player Sponsor 2020
Hawthorn Hawks - Conor Nash Player Sponsor 2019
Hawthorn Hawks - James Cousins Player Sponsor 2019
Soldiers deserve respect for the sacrifice they have made for this country, no doubt. The term minority group would not normally apply to them in the way you are using it though. Typically that phrase is used to describe socially subordinate groups which doesn't really apply to Soldiers who are typically revered and quite often assume leadership positions in society. The term minority group centrally describes power relations although according to wikkipedia it is often confused with a statistical minority in the way you have so don't feel too bad about the mistake!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group
Good posts, Bris.
The only thing you missed is that Bolt is a "look-at-me" journalist. If he is not "controversial", no one notices, no one reads his articles and the newspaper cancels his contract.
And he gets no money.
Everything he writes is an attempt to be controversial.
Everything he writes is therefore bullsh*t.
See also: Derryn Hinch, Finey, etc
Nonsense. You're looking at it in terms of us and them, the segregation is happening in your mind.
Try looking at it in terms of indigenous culture being pre 1788 Australian culture, of us all having a stake in paying tribute to it. It costs us nothing to acknowledge in hindsight the contradiction between our national values and our national past. After all, we weren't even alive back then, were we? We're alive now though, so how are we gonna act? Like Australia's just another European country and Kooris are every bit as European as us? Good for them, no thanks necessary, shut up about it and we're sorted?
* that. If we're our own people, and we are, we should not consider the celebration of the first people of this place as some sort of patronising concession. If we do, we are ultimately just patronising ourselves.
- Sep 27, 2012
- 28,095
- 55,431
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Bushrangers Tottenham Hotspur
This is absolute rubbish. Bolt wants the complete opposite, that we see all people regardless of race as equal. He also very much cares about indigenous welfare. He most certainly does not campaign to denigrate people on the basis of race.
Equal, maybe, through European Imperialist goggles. Equal assuming as axiomatic that europe has won the human race thus far, but through unthinkable magnanimity we Europeans are willing to accede to the conceit of our own construction that all races are now on equal pegging merely because we are willing to say they are, and we are Europeans.
Andrew Bolt is an ignorant campaigner.
- Sep 27, 2012
- 28,095
- 55,431
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Bushrangers Tottenham Hotspur
No he isn't. Why descend into crude insults? Can't take your response seriously when you end with a comment like that.
I don't actually regard it as mistake. I understand that minority groups are often regarded as lesser beings, but I prefer to broaden it..be inclusive so to speak and believe me I do not rely on wiki for this. But you make me smile.one of my professors at uni said........ "you can never be accused of plagiarism..those thoughts are your own" I took it as a sign that he knew I was an independent thinker. ha..I am sure he meant nothing of the kind!!Soldiers deserve respect for the sacrifice they have made for this country, no doubt. The term minority group would not normally apply to them in the way you are using it though. Typically that phrase is used to describe socially subordinate groups which doesn't really apply to Soldiers who are typically revered and quite often assume leadership positions in society. The term minority group centrally describes power relations although according to wikkipedia it is often confused with a statistical minority in the way you have so don't feel too bad about the mistake!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group
Because I mean it.
Can't take your response seriously when you reduce my post to a comment like that.
Seriously though, weak as piss.
You must have missed his condemnation of the 18c clause in the racial discrimination act. Bolt's version of 'equal' is that anyone who is different to him should not be provided a platform through which they can make a case for their rights. The people targeted by Bolt in his article that saw him charged with breaching the racial discrimination act were all politically active people. His piece was about silencing dissent. He chose to use counterfactual statements to discredit political opponents. Read the kinds of errors he made. They are deliberate and grossly inaccurate. For example, Bolt claims Associate Professor Anita Heis profited from her indigenous heritage (which he questions) because she was given a 'plum job' on Koori Radio. So much wrong with that claim especially when you consider the position was voluntary and she was clearly qualified for the role. Bolt campaigns against the 18c clause in order to facilitate his chosen form of political censorship. Racism is so much more than calling someone a black so and so. It is an act of suppression and is the at the heart of everything he writes on indigenous Australians.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...-least-accurate-columnist-20111001-1l2zl.html
- Sep 27, 2012
- 28,095
- 55,431
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Bushrangers Tottenham Hotspur
Nope I haven't missed anything. That case was an utter disgrace. Bolt is not campaigning for political censorship at all. Ironically it is he that has now been censored because of that case, how is that right? You can't expect anything printed in The Age to give Bolt a fair go because he works for the opposition paper.
Bolt is anti ABC, is the PR man (going by what he writes recently) for current govt, and his opinions about certain indigenous matters comes across to me as not supportive. I also found it laughable that during the US presidency elections he had opinions that sounded anti-Obama.
- Sep 27, 2012
- 28,095
- 55,431
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Bushrangers Tottenham Hotspur
And the ABC is anti Bolt. He is a conservative, that is no secret, and the ABC these days is very left wing. He is supportive of indigenous people, just not some of the policies that apply to them and there are indigenous people that agree with him. There are many people who are anti-Obama, there is nothing strange about that.
Not everyone has to like Obama...............that's democracy for you...we are allowed to disagree.. It is supposed to be messy
What is the grounds if this claim? Because Bolt/Abbott/Howard say it's true? These names/personalities are not synonymous with conservatism.
In what way?
Who and with what arguments?
Well you have revealed yourself...That link isn't an opinion piece. It is directly quoting Bolt and the judge. Get some perspective on this. When presented with all the evidence the judge was damming of Bolt. Bolt wasn't in breach of the act due to his 'opinion' he was in breach of the act because his arguments were completely disconnected from fact. The law never provides allowance for deliberate and gross misrepresentation of the facts to discredit others. Prior to 18c the defamation laws were inadequate to facilitate legal action on the basis or racial discrimination of this kind due to the assessment of what constitutes damage etc. The 18c clause makes clear what should have already being captured by defamation laws. The law actually protects discussions in good faith. Bolt demonstrated a complete lack of good faith in divorcing his argument from fact. IF you have a problem with what the Judge said then please, point out where he went wrong otherwise claiming the case was an utter disgrace just comes across as hysterical. Bolt doesn't campaign for censorship, he practices it and campaigns for the means to continue to practice it.
