Society/Culture Jussie Smollett

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Soft Downhill Skier

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On the same day this fwit got arrested, so did a domestic terrorist convinced anti-white hatred exists and was planning a Brevik like assault.

This will be used by those who want others to believe hatred is gone, or massively exaggerated. Many of these people were silent when a car driven by a nazi was driven into a group of people protesting a nazi rally held in the US.
 

Snake_Baker

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On the same day this fwit got arrested, so did a domestic terrorist convinced anti-white hatred exists and was planning a Brevik like assault.

This will be used by those who want others to believe hatred is gone, or massively exaggerated. Many of these people were silent when a car driven by a nazi was driven into a group of people protesting a nazi rally held in the US.
There's that word again.

Can anyone draw me the line between crime and "hate" crime?
 

Chief

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To be honest, the only people that will question future reports of racially-motivated crime are the people who question it already. This guy is a dickhead for giving racists more ammunition, among other things.

And it’s not a stretch to peek at the other side of the coin of someone who racially abuses someone over a car space, and wonder if they would have even gotten that angry if it was a white guy of similar social standing or a pretty girl they were in disagreement with.

We put on different faces for different situations - if your angry race-hate face doesn’t get much use, it isn’t going to be close at hand when an Indian guy takes “your” car space.
 

Soft Downhill Skier

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There's that word again.

Can anyone draw me the line between crime and "hate" crime?
It's crime motivated by a dislike of a person's cultural, gender or sexual orientation background. Distinct from crime committed for financial greed, spur of the moment etc.

It's not tangibly worse than a crime not motivated by prejudice.

An issue is that most deaths caused by prejudice have been committed by governments, not individuals like Brevik, so Im not sure how effective they are in reducing these incidences.

One justification is that it reduces anxiety among groups who are the likely targets, but Im yet to see evidence of this happening.

And if this guttural populism increases in strength, they will be of no use.
 

Snake_Baker

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To be honest, the only people that will question future reports of racially-motivated crime are the people who question it already. This guy is a dickhead for giving racists more ammunition, among other things.

And it’s not a stretch to peek at the other side of the coin of someone who racially abuses someone over a car space, and wonder if they would have even gotten that angry if it was a white guy of similar social standing or a pretty girl they were in disagreement with.

We put on different faces for different situations - if your angry race-hate face doesn’t get much use, it isn’t going to be close at hand when an Indian guy takes “your” car space.
I'd argue a hate crime occurs when someone is targeted for a specific reason. I didn't get my head kicked in because people objected to my shirt.
Motivation.
It's crime motivated by a dislike of a person's cultural, gender or sexual orientation background. Distinct from crime committed for financial greed, spur of the moment etc.

It's not tangibly worse than a crime not motivated by prejudice.

An issue is that most deaths caused by prejudice have been committed by governments, not individuals like Brevik, so Im not sure how effective they are in reducing these incidences.

One justification is that it reduces anxiety among groups who are the likely targets, but Im yet to see evidence of this happening.

Okay

a) Racial verbal abuse = "hate" crime
b) Financial opportunity physical assault (no racial/sexual factors) = non "hate" crime

Can you see how the harsh word "hate" has been recruited by certain interests for their agendas?

Do you believe the physical assault example (b) is clearly the harsher crime?
 

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TimmeT

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lol this guy is a hater no ifs no buts. but because he is a black homosexual certain groups are trying to silence and/or play down what he did which includes their deflection re this other dude.
 

Soft Downhill Skier

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Persons that prioritise the term "hate" for a specific sector of crimes.

Are you going to answer my second question?
Everyone has an agenda. Using this example, the Trump right in the US will use this for their agenda to push the idea that accusations of prejudice should be viewed as bullshit.

If we're using the example of person A calling a black person a n****er, and person B snotting someone outside a bar, of course person B's crime is demonstrably worse. It's very unlikely person A would even be charged. Person B would look at possible prison time.

But efforts are made to stamp out person's B violence. Just as efforts and programs are being used to stamp out person A's prejudice which will inevitably lead to them becoming person B. Hate crime legislation is part of that effort.
 

Chief

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Okay

a) Racial verbal abuse = "hate" crime
b) Financial opportunity physical assault (no racial/sexual factors) = non "hate" crime

Can you see how the harsh word "hate" has been recruited by certain interests for their agendas?

Don't believe the physical assault example (b) is clearly the harsher crime?
I don’t see what the issue is. “Hate crime” is just shorthand for racially motivated crime.

Do you have an issue with terms like “elder abuse” or “child sexual assault”?

Elder abuse is just abuse. Child sexual assault is just assault.

Our legal system recognises the different qualities that are more likely to be present in that crime. And that the targets of some crimes are more likely to need different services and assistance to report the crime and be a witness in court, and so on.
 

Snake_Baker

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If we're using the example of person A calling a black person a n****er, and person B snotting someone outside a bar, of course person B's crime is demonstrably worse.
Thanks, and that makes good logical sense.

So, in this example at least, it's agreed that the non hate crime is worse than the hate crime.

I'm just highlighting the recruitment of terminology for political causes.

I don’t see what the issue is. “Hate crime” is just shorthand for racially motivated crime.

Do you have an issue with terms like “elder abuse” or “child sexual assault”?

Elder abuse is just abuse. Child sexual assault is just assault.

Our legal system recognises the different qualities that are more likely to be present in that crime. And that the targets of some crimes are more likely to need different services and assistance to report the crime and be a witness in court, and so on.
Just pointing out that "hate" is a very broad and extreme term that has been recruited for specific purposes, and there's actually plenty of worse crimes than "hate" crimes, although I don't know how they can be categorised beyond the word "hate".

In other words, the utilisation of that word for certain crimes, is out of sync with where it really sits on the scale of crime.
 

Gough

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Thanks, and that makes good logical sense.

So, in this example at least, it's agreed that the non hate crime is worse than the hate crime.

I'm just highlighting the recruitment of terminology for political causes.



Just pointing out that "hate" is a very broad and extreme term that has been recruited for specific purposes, and there's actually plenty of worse crimes than "hate" crimes, although I don't know how they can be categorised beyond the word "hate".

In other words, the utilisation of that word for certain crimes, is out of sync with where it really sits on the scale of crime.
You could substitute hate for aggravated if you wanted to take politics out of it.
 

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