Prediction Just give Gold Coast the next 5 flags and be done with it

[GC2015]

Look give them 20 years of top 5 picks and then allow them to get patracca add pep guardiola you really can’t lose

With pep in charge the suns and Brisbane with share 8 of the next 10 flags

While us in Melbourne subsidize the comp

What could go wrong ?

So what is North's excuse? Their coach is even more successful than Dimma (4 flags for Clarko vs 3 for Hardwick). Go back to 2019-20 when both the Suns and Roos found themselves on the bottom of the ladder starting their rebuilds and you'll see North have had 12 first round picks in the last 6 seasons - 7 of which were taken in the top 5. That's more first rounders and more top 5 picks than the Suns in the same period.

North have literally had better draft access for more than half a decade and have a coach that's arguably equal/better than Hardwick ... so what's their excuse? Maybe there's more to it than just having draft access or a good coach - ever considered that? If high end draft access guaranteed on field success then it wouldn't have taken the Suns 15 years to play finals.

 

[stallon]

So what is North's excuse? Their coach is even more successful than Dimma (4 flags for Clarko vs 3 for Hardwick). Go back to 2019-20 when both the Suns and Roos found themselves on the bottom of the ladder starting their rebuilds and you'll see North have had 12 first round picks in the last 6 seasons - 7 of which were taken in the top 5. That's more first rounders and more top 5 picks than the Suns in the same period.

North have literally had better draft access for more than half a decade and have a coach that's arguably equal/better than Hardwick ... so what's their excuse? Maybe there's more to it than just having draft access or a good coach - ever considered that? If high end draft access guaranteed on field success then it wouldn't have taken the Suns 15 years to play finals.

GCS got pick 2 for free in 2019, that player is now in his prime. North got their help in 2023, the players are still 20 years old and havent matured yet.
North havent had the same access to the draft, there is no way North could have done anything like what GCS did trading for Petracca with 3 first rounders while STILL using 4 first rounders in that same draft including 2 in the top 5.
After getting 4 first rounders in a couple of years ago(the same year North got their assistance) getting the consensus 2nd best player in that draft, another top 10 pick and 2 more later first rounders.

Shit drafting is a big part of it sure, but **** me dude, thats an awful comparison to make.

Yes North have underperformed but not like North or anyone else has had the same access as GCS in particular has had. Brisbane at least was largely f/s, while not as bad or manufactured as the academies, its still bad.

 

[DeathlyAccurate]

Yeeep, Vics are handling this about as well as you’d hope. Isn’t it beautiful.

 

[GC2015]

GCS got pick 2 for free in 2019, that player is now in his prime. North got their help in 2023, the players are still 20 years old and havent matured yet.
North havent had the same access to the draft, there is no way North could have done anything like what GCS did trading for Petracca with 3 first rounders while STILL using 4 first rounders in that same draft including 2 in the top 5.
After getting 4 first rounders in a couple of years ago(the same year North got their assistance) getting the consensus 2nd best player in that draft, another top 10 pick and 2 more later first rounders.

Shit drafting is a big part of it sure, but **** me dude, thats an awful comparison to make.

Yes North have underperformed but not like North or anyone else has had the same access as GCS in particular has had. Brisbane at least was largely f/s, while not as bad or manufactured as the academies, its still bad.

Okay let me see if I can follow your logic...

• Gold Coast got one priority pick in 2019 when the club had hit rock bottom (there's a long history of the league doing this for other clubs that hit rock bottom) after losing both captains + picking up the wooden spoon and that pick is in his prime now so that's fair game to criticise, but the top 5 pick North were given in 2023 isn't fair game to compare because he's too young. Got it.
• Gold Coast were somehow able to trade three first round picks to land Petracca... but according to you North couldn't possibly do the same, despite also having access to three first round picks over the next three years just like every other club in the league. Got it.
• Gold Coast traded prominent/best 22 players for picks like Flanders, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Chol, Fiorini etc as well as future & past picks into the 2023/2025 drafts to have the currency to match the academy bids based on the draft rules at the time. For context, those bid matching rules were supposed to change in 2023 to force clubs to match first round bids with first round picks, but Carlton talked the AFL out of it because they wanted to keep priority access to the Camporeale twins (who were considered first round picks at the time). Nevertheless, the rules at the time allowed for all of this to occur so the Suns didn't do anything wrong. Also, all those academy players fall into your 'they are young and haven't matured yet' category so you shouldn't be too critical because they haven't matured, right?
• North have been 'shit' at drafting and that's a big part of their failures. Got it.
• North have literally had more first round and more top 5 picks than the Suns for more than half a decade since both clubs were on the bottom of the ladder, but according to you they've had inferior draft access. Got it.
• Brisbane's recent success has been largely due to the F/S rule and that's bad, despite 15 other clubs having access to that same rule. Also, Gold Coast and GWS won't have F/S access for another 10ish years. Got it.

I think I covered it all. To be honest, the outrage seems selective and inconsistent. I get that West Coast are trying to rebuild and you guys somehow see Gold Coast as a significant contributor towards not being able to rebuild properly, but I hope you are consistent and continue this outrage over the next two years as Carlton, Port Adelaide & Tasmania receive priority access to prominent draft picks. Carlton got F/S access to pick 3 last year and will have F/S access to pick 1 this year - are you outraged? Port Adelaide have academy access to pick 2 this year and will have academy access to pick 2 next year as well as two further top 15 F/S picks next year - are you outraged? Tasmania are going to receive plenty of help with draft access from 2027 onward - are you outraged? All I ask is for you to be consistent with your outrage because this sort of stuff is going to continue and will rotate around the league. If it makes you feel any better, there's zero evidence right now that the Suns academy will produce another first round pick for at least the next 5 years.

 

[Chronz]

The Northern Nepo state supporters really can't see how rigged the comp is to their favour? It makes the Collingwood 2023 premiership the most amazing underdog victory of all time.

 

[stallon]

Okay let me see if I can follow your logic...

• Gold Coast got one priority pick in 2019 when the club had hit rock bottom (there's a long history of the league doing this for other clubs that hit rock bottom) after losing both captains + picking up the wooden spoon and that pick is in his prime now so that's fair game to criticise, but the top 5 pick North were given in 2023 isn't fair game to compare because he's too young. Got it.

Lmao no, **** sake.
You were comparing North and GCS access to the draft, we dont know what the North kids are yet so we cant compare.

• Gold Coast were somehow able to trade three first round picks to land Petracca... but according to you North couldn't possibly do the same, despite also having access to three first round picks over the next three years just like every other club in the league. Got it.

They traded 3 first round picks, and still took 4 first round picks in the draft.
Again, ****s sake dude

• Gold Coast traded prominent/best 22 players for picks like Flanders, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Chol, Fiorini etc as well as future & past picks into the 2023/2025 drafts to have the currency to match the academy bids based on the draft rules at the time. For context, those bid matching rules were supposed to change in 2023 to force clubs to match first round bids with first round picks, but Carlton talked the AFL out of it because they wanted to keep priority access to the Camporeale twins (who were considered first round picks at the time). Nevertheless, the rules at the time allowed for all of this to occur so the Suns didn't do anything wrong. Also, all those academy players fall into your 'they are young and haven't matured yet' category so you shouldn't be too critical because they haven't matured, right?

4 first round picks 2023(pick 2 and 7 included)
1 first round pick 2024(pick 9)
4 first round picks 2025(pick 2 and 5 included)
Traded 3 first round picks for Petracca(picks 7 and 8 included)
Traded pick 6 for Rioli(lol), lets say that cancels out Flanders more or less
Gave up Flanders(not in your best midfield), Lukosius(fringe player, was not a good player), and some role players.
You added Noble and Long so im cancelling out all the role players, theyre inconsequential.
Also gave up the 2026 first round pick

That's 5 top 10 picks USED IN THE DRAFT IN THE LAST 3 YEARS
Another 4 first round picks
ALSO added Petracca

• North have been 'shit' at drafting and that's a big part of their failures. Got it.

?
yeah this is not a secret

• North have literally had more first round and more top 5 picks than the Suns for more than half a decade since both clubs were on the bottom of the ladder, but according to you they've had inferior draft access. Got it.

Back to 2019
GCS 5 top 5 picks
North 5 (lost JHF for Sheezel, so they cancel out) top 5 picks
Wow, crazy huh?

What about top 10 picks then?
GCS 10 top 10 picks - Flanders was pick 11, just missing the cut
North 6 top 10 picks

WOW thats really ****ing crazy bro isnt it?
While also trading AWAY 2 top 10 picks last year?

• Brisbane's recent success has been largely due to the F/S rule and that's bad, despite 15 other clubs having access to that same rule. Also, Gold Coast and GWS won't have F/S access for another 10ish years. Got it.

Brisbane were able to pay next to nothing for Ashcroft x2, meaning they could go all in for Dunkley at the same time.
They also got Fletcher, Annable and Marshall in the last few years too as high picks.
They were a top 4/premiership level side who added 3 top 5 picks based on talent, plus 2 more first round picks over a 4 year period, while adding an A-grade mid in his prime to their list. ????

I think I covered it all. To be honest, the outrage seems selective and inconsistent. I get that West Coast are trying to rebuild and you guys somehow see Gold Coast as a significant contributor towards not being able to rebuild properly, but I hope you are consistent and continue this outrage over the next two years as Carlton, Port Adelaide & Tasmania receive priority access to prominent draft picks. Carlton got F/S access to pick 3 last year and will have F/S access to pick 1 this year - are you outraged? Port Adelaide have academy access to pick 2 this year and will have academy access to pick 2 next year as well as two further top 15 F/S picks next year - are you outraged? Tasmania are going to receive plenty of help with draft access from 2027 onward - are you outraged? All I ask is for you to be consistent with your outrage because this sort of stuff is going to continue and will rotate around the league. If it makes you feel any better, there's zero evidence right now that the Suns academy will produce another first round pick for at least the next 5 years.

I am not happy with Carlton getting the access theyve had, but the rules are supposedly going to make it even harder to match bids, if they are paying a closer to fair price ill see how I feel.
Getting the kids for nothing like GCS and Brisbane did is just honestly a disgrace on the competition

Tasmania as a new club are not in the same scenario. GWS wasnt so hated for being good in 2019 or whenener it was

My outrage is very consistent, if a team gets that much help that teams that are stuck to the bottom 3 for the last 4+ years have far LESS access to the draft than a team thats around the middle of the ladder, and dont have the extra picks to trade for A-graders on top, then the competition is broken, they may as well do away with the salary cap

The access to the draft should not even be close, like how tf is Richmond waiting for GCS to take their 2 kids first on draft night, the Lions to take their kid, and Carlton to take their kid when Richmond was 2nd last?? like ****ing LOL

At least with Carltons f/s Dean its not something relatively new and manufactured to artificially boost the northern clubs.

 

[shintemaster]

Okay let me see if I can follow your logic...

• Gold Coast got one priority pick in 2019 when the club had hit rock bottom (there's a long history of the league doing this for other clubs that hit rock bottom) after losing both captains + picking up the wooden spoon and that pick is in his prime now so that's fair game to criticise, but the top 5 pick North were given in 2023 isn't fair game to compare because he's too young. Got it.
• Gold Coast were somehow able to trade three first round picks to land Petracca... but according to you North couldn't possibly do the same, despite also having access to three first round picks over the next three years just like every other club in the league. Got it.
• Gold Coast traded prominent/best 22 players for picks like Flanders, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Chol, Fiorini etc as well as future & past picks into the 2023/2025 drafts to have the currency to match the academy bids based on the draft rules at the time. For context, those bid matching rules were supposed to change in 2023 to force clubs to match first round bids with first round picks, but Carlton talked the AFL out of it because they wanted to keep priority access to the Camporeale twins (who were considered first round picks at the time). Nevertheless, the rules at the time allowed for all of this to occur so the Suns didn't do anything wrong. Also, all those academy players fall into your 'they are young and haven't matured yet' category so you shouldn't be too critical because they haven't matured, right?
• North have been 'shit' at drafting and that's a big part of their failures. Got it.
• North have literally had more first round and more top 5 picks than the Suns for more than half a decade since both clubs were on the bottom of the ladder, but according to you they've had inferior draft access. Got it.
• Brisbane's recent success has been largely due to the F/S rule and that's bad, despite 15 other clubs having access to that same rule. Also, Gold Coast and GWS won't have F/S access for another 10ish years. Got it.

I think I covered it all. To be honest, the outrage seems selective and inconsistent. I get that West Coast are trying to rebuild and you guys somehow see Gold Coast as a significant contributor towards not being able to rebuild properly, but I hope you are consistent and continue this outrage over the next two years as Carlton, Port Adelaide & Tasmania receive priority access to prominent draft picks. Carlton got F/S access to pick 3 last year and will have F/S access to pick 1 this year - are you outraged? Port Adelaide have academy access to pick 2 this year and will have academy access to pick 2 next year as well as two further top 15 F/S picks next year - are you outraged? Tasmania are going to receive plenty of help with draft access from 2027 onward - are you outraged? All I ask is for you to be consistent with your outrage because this sort of stuff is going to continue and will rotate around the league. If it makes you feel any better, there's zero evidence right now that the Suns academy will produce another first round pick for at least the next 5 years.

North were never given a top 5 pick.

 

[Jirik13]

North were never given a top 5 pick.

Suns are expansion team in a new market who were living in wilderness for 14 years (including 8 years in metal sheds) with constant 'they should not exist". We needed all help we could get. Academy was a recommended and obvious tool to assist Suns. Only when more money was put into academy it started to produce local quality.

Plenty of established teams benefited from Suns struggles (getting their top players and even picks) and from F/S (Suns don't have) and also from NGA. In 2 weeks apparently AFL will make bidding fair and problem will be solved.

North should be compared with long established teams. Picks are only part of success. Get better people into the club. List management is questionable. Still you got plenty of talent. Develop talent properly. Clark seems like past his time.

I bet if AFL put Fagan, Noble and Swan at North like they did with Lions 10 years ago you would be flying by now too. People are most important.

Let Suns fans enjoy some success now, no? Suns still only won one finals game. I remember GWS ferrari talk and they are still waiting for premiership.

 

[shintemaster]

Suns are expansion team in a new market who were living in wilderness for 14 years (including 8 years in metal sheds) with constant 'they should not exist". We needed all help we could get. Academy was a recommended and obvious tool to assist Suns. Only when more money was put into academy it started to produce local quality.

Plenty of established teams benefited from Suns struggles (getting their top players and even picks) and from F/S (Suns don't have) and also from NGA. In 2 weeks apparently AFL will make bidding fair and problem will be solved.

North should be compared with long established teams. Picks are only part of success. Get better people into the club. List management is questionable. Still you got plenty of talent. Develop talent properly. Clark seems like past his time.

I bet if AFL put Fagan, Noble and Swan at North like they did with Lions 10 years ago you would be flying by now too. People are most important.

Let Suns fans enjoy some success now, no? Suns still only won one finals game. I remember GWS ferrari talk and they are still waiting for premiership.

That's a really long post dancing around you just making up shit.

I don't care about the Suns or any team getting a "turn" winning.

 

[Billy ray]

Everyone loves us when we are the losers and a breeding ground for poaching players.

Everyone hates us when we start winning.

Love it

 

[Sttew]

I’ve seen enough.

They are that good.

At home. If they replicate that form away and at the MCG then I'll concede.

On paper they are the complete package, and to think Rowell, Ballard and Walter to come back, and possibly Jamara UH.

 

[Obeanie1]

Everyone loves us when we are the losers and a breeding ground for poaching players.

Everyone hates us when we start winning.

Love it

Just more Welfare wins with massive ****** next to every one.

And you know it.

Anyway, you enjoy the fixed race for a few more years.

 

[Billy ray]

at the MCG

Our one game per year?

 

[stallon]

Everyone loves us when we are the losers and a breeding ground for poaching players.

Everyone hates us when we start winning.

Love it

People would genuinely be happy that you guys are finally good now if it wasnt off the back of all the basically free top 10 pick picks youve gotten over the last few years

 

[GC2015]

North were never given a top 5 pick.

I think he was referring to the free agency compensation pick North were given for Ben McKay and a lot of people felt at the time that losing B.McKay didn't warrant band 1 compensation, but it was a convenient excuse to give the struggling Roos a bit of help. I assume that's what he was referring to when he mentioned "North got their help in 2023".

Lmao no, **** sake.
You were comparing North and GCS access to the draft, we dont know what the North kids are yet so we cant compare.

So it's exactly what I suggested - you're unwilling to criticise the top 5 pick North were given because 'it's too early to tell what he'll be' but you're happy to criticise Gold Coast's pick because he's 4 years older and turned out to be a good player. The issue here is you're leaving the door open for the North player to be a flop and then you won't be as outraged about the pick being given to North if he does flop. So your outrage towards help is conditional depending on how good the player becomes, not how much help the club is actually given. However, and this is where the hypocrisy really comes into play, you're more than happy to critcise the academy picks the Suns have landed in the last three years... even though 'we don't know what those kids are yet' because they were all drafted from 2023 onward. Will your opinion change if half the first round Suns academy picks end up being flops?

They traded 3 first round picks, and still took 4 first round picks in the draft.
Again, ****s sake dude

Writing ****s sake doesn't make your point any better FYI. Just letting you know that there's a fairly good chance we're going to disagree on a lot of things because I can already tell we look at things differently. So don't be surprised when I don't agree with you in future posts. You don't have to express frustration in that way just because people don't agree with your point of view. Forums like BF are literally designed for people to discuss topics and sharing differing opinions.

So the issue with this quote above is you're conveniently not mentioning what the Suns did to get those picks/points. I tried to provide you with context in my last post by mentioning best 22 players that were traded out like Flanders, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Chol, Fiorini etc but you've failed to mention that part again in this quote. By leaving out this crucial piece of context, you've made it sound like the Suns have received all these amazing benefits and have given up absolutely nothing to make it happen. Think about what actually happened - the Suns gave up former pick 11 Flanders for pick 7, former pick 2 Lukosius for pick 8 and bundled those two picks with their natural 2026 second round pick and their 2027 first round pick in order to land Petracca. There was a fair bit moving out of the club in order to make the Petracca trade possible.

So what about the first round academy picks? The Suns let go of three best 22 players who all competed in the 2025 finals series in Ainsworth, Fiorini & Budarick as well as Rosas and Atkins to make it possible. They also traded away their natural first round pick + 2026 and 2027 second/third round picks to accumulate more points. Once again, there was a fair bit being moved out in order to make it possible. It's going to hurt seeing guys like Flanders, Fiorini, Budarick, Rosas etc succeeding at other clubs, but that's how trading works. You take the good with the bad.

I just wanted to make it clear that there was a fair bit being given up in order to do what they did last year because your post could be perceived in a very misleading way. You've focused a lot on the end result and have mentioned virtually nothing about how they got there. Now if you want to debate that the Suns didn't give up enough for what was coming back in return, then we can have that subjective conversation but that's a very different point to the one I think you're trying to make.

4 first round picks 2023(pick 2 and 7 included)
1 first round pick 2024(pick 9)
4 first round picks 2025(pick 2 and 5 included)
Traded 3 first round picks for Petracca(picks 7 and 8 included)
Traded pick 6 for Rioli(lol), lets say that cancels out Flanders more or less
Gave up Flanders(not in your best midfield), Lukosius(fringe player, was not a good player), and some role players.
You added Noble and Long so im cancelling out all the role players, theyre inconsequential.
Also gave up the 2026 first round pick

That's 5 top 10 picks USED IN THE DRAFT IN THE LAST 3 YEARS
Another 4 first round picks
ALSO added Petracca

And this just proves how ridiculous your point of view is and how you've overlooked so many things that occurred to make it all possible. You're essentially suggestng we gave up nothing to land Trac and 4 first round picks. I'll direct you to the text above so you can educate yourself more on what we gave up.

?
yeah this is not a secret

So we cop more heat because we're better at drafting/developing players than North are? Again, this is the problem with your approach of suspending judgement until you know the kind of player that pick develops into. Let's try something here - say your team had finished last in 2018 and you were given a priority pick that you use to draft Sam Walsh and let's say my team finishes last in 2014 and we get given a priority pick that we use on Paddy McCartin. Have we been given the same level of help or have you been given considerably more help because Walsh develops into a good player and McCartin ends up being a flop? Your answer here will be telling.

Back to 2019
GCS 5 top 5 picks
North 5 (lost JHF for Sheezel, so they cancel out) top 5 picks
Wow, crazy huh?

What about top 10 picks then?
GCS 10 top 10 picks - Flanders was pick 11, just missing the cut
North 6 top 10 picks

WOW thats really ****ing crazy bro isnt it?
While also trading AWAY 2 top 10 picks last year?

North were very competitive in 2019 with 10 wins on the board and only 2 wins shy of playing finals. The Suns were the opposite of competitive in 2019 and were the wooden spooners crying out for help after years of struggling with departures of both captains (Lynch & May), a Brownlow medalist and former captain (Ablett), Ah Chee, Martin, Hall, Saad, Matera etc in the two years leading up to that point.

This is why I don't think it's fair to compare North and the Suns prior to 2020 because they were in two very different boats and North even played finals in 2018 while the Suns were languishing down the bottom and forced to play away for an extended period due to the Commonwealth Games. This is why I think comparing from 2020 onward while both teams were struggling simultaneously is more fair. The Suns didn't play finals for 15 years and lost just about every prominent player they ever drafted other than Dave Swallow, so of course there's going to be a long history of top 10 picks that are eventually traded for future top 10 picks.

Brisbane were able to pay next to nothing for Ashcroft x2, meaning they could go all in for Dunkley at the same time.
They also got Fletcher, Annable and Marshall in the last few years too as high picks.
They were a top 4/premiership level side who added 3 top 5 picks based on talent, plus 2 more first round picks over a 4 year period, while adding an A-grade mid in his prime to their list. ????

But that could've been any team getting lucky with the F/S rule other than Gold Coast or GWS, right? Carlton are going to land pick 1 as an F/S pick this year after they got pick 3 as an F/S pick last year and they also got the Camporeale twins as F/S picks two years ago. They were also able to add in pick 3 Jagger Smith and another first round pick in Ashton Moir. But wait, there's more... they also traded in Florent, Hayward & Ainsworth while their only big loss was Curnow. Why aren't you more critical of Carlton with their F/S access and ability to make other big moves in the same period of time, but you're happy to criticise Brisbane for doing the same thing? Is it because you're selective with your outrage?

I am not happy with Carlton getting the access theyve had, but the rules are supposedly going to make it even harder to match bids, if they are paying a closer to fair price ill see how I feel.
Getting the kids for nothing like GCS and Brisbane did is just honestly a disgrace on the competition

Oh so Carlton's F/S access to pick 3 last year is okay but Brisbane's F/S access to pick 5 the year before is disgraceful? It's crazy that you can't see the hypocrisy in your responses. And the cherry on top is Carlton is going to get F/S access to pick 1 this year... but that's totally okay because Carlton might be forced to trade in a late first round pick to make it possible. You can't make this stuff up.

I'm sure you've got some ridiculous reasoning as to why you'll be okay with Port Adelaide's priority access to 2x academy pick 2s + 2x F/S top 15 picks over the next two years as well.

GWS wasnt so hated for being good in 2019 or whenener it was

Gee whiz. You've either got a terrible memory or you're purposely making things up to suit your narrative. GWS were constantly berated in the lead up to their 2019 GF appearance for the access they were given and people thought they were going to win 5 straight premierships due to the 'help' the AFL gave them in their foundation years. It's why they lost academy access to the Albury/Murray region because there was so much fear in relation to the Giants becoming a juggernaut. I'm sure prominent GWS posters like Colonial will be happy to educate you on this topic that you've got terribly wrong.

My outrage is very consistent

It's really not. You've constantly contradicted yourself and shown multiple times that you're okay with the priority access rules being applied to a club like Carlton, but very much against those same rules being applied to a team like Brisbane.

The access to the draft should not even be close, like how tf is Richmond waiting for GCS to take their 2 kids first on draft night, the Lions to take their kid, and Carlton to take their kid when Richmond was 2nd last?? like ****ing LOL

At least with Carltons f/s Dean its not something relatively new and manufactured to artificially boost the northern clubs.

Ahh so once again Carlton get a pass (in your mind) for their high end priority access because F/S is an old rule but Gold Coast and Brisbane don't get a pass because the academies are a new rule. So you should be okay with Will Ashcroft, Jaspa Fletcher and Levi Ashcroft joining the Lions because they were recruited as F/S picks and it's an old rule, right? But wait, you already labelled that a disgrace. Something isn't adding up here...

The most ridiculous part of your point of view is that you can't see how much you're contradicting yourself.

 

[Billy ray]

People would genuinely be happy that you guys are finally good now if it wasnt off the back of all the basically free top 10 pick picks youve gotten over the last few years

Years in the making

http://archive.today/8UOaS

 

[Colonial]

GWS wasnt so hated for being good in 2019 or whenener it was

lol what? We weren’t? **** I must of been drunk.

 

[Jirik13]

People would genuinely be happy that you guys are finally good now if it wasnt off the back of all the basically free top 10 pick picks youve gotten over the last few years

So which top 10 picks over the last fews years elevated Suns on Fri against Cats?
I will include first round picks in the last 3 years.
Walter, Read, Rogers, Graham, Lombard, Addinsall, Murray, Thomas, Patterson, Zeke Uwland?

Only Zeke Uwland (debut), Read, Graham and Lombard played. I would say only Lombard was very good and had a first breakthrough game. Dempsey did number on Zeke (4 goals).


It was Petracca, Noble, Rioli, Miller, Witts, Collins, Powell, King, Anderson, Long, Humphrey who elevated team not top 10 picks in the last few years.

Give those academy kids 2-4 more years to develop and contribute substantially.

 

[GC2015]

So which top 10 picks over the last fews years elevated Suns on Fri against Cats?
I will include first round picks in the last 3 years.
Walter, Read, Rogers, Graham, Lombard, Addinsall, Murray, Thomas, Patterson, Zeke Uwland?

Only Zeke Uwland (debut), Read, Graham and Lombard played. I would say only Lombard was very good and had a first breakthrough game. Dempsey did number on Zeke (4 goals).


It was Petracca, Noble, Rioli, Miller, Witts, Collins, Powell, King, Anderson, Long, Humphrey who elevated team not top 10 picks in the last few years.

Give those academy kids 2-4 more years to develop and contribute substantially.

If stallon was being consistent, he would suggest these young academy graduates are too young and haven't matured so their true value as first round picks hasn't yet been established, just like he suggested with the North Melbourne picks from 2023 onward.

As was the case with Brisbane and their good trading/non-academy drafting in the lead up to their rise in 2019, the Suns current success is also being driven by non-academy drafting and trading. Top 5 players for the Suns on Friday night - Christian Petracca (trade in), John Noble (trade in), Touk Miller (pick 29 from Victoria), Noah Anderson (pick 2 from Victoria), Bailey Humphrey (pick 6 from Victoria). Other prominent players on Friday night like Jarrod Witts (trade in), Mac Andrew (pick 5 from Victoria), Wil Powell (pick 19), Daniel Rioli (trade in) & Ben Long (trade in) also fall into that category and obviously players who are injured in Matt Rowell (pick 1 from Victoria), Charlie Ballard (pick 42 from South Australia) and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan (trade in) will also be categorised that way. Like you suggested, Lombard was really the only academy player that stood out on Friday night and I doubt he'll be able to do that consistently considering he's played 5 games and will likely receive a lot more attention in the future.

Despite what some will have you believe, the rise of the Suns is currently being driven by good trading and non-academy drafting.

 

[stallon]

lol what? We weren’t? **** I must of been drunk.

not hated like GCS and Brisbane will be now

I knew nobody other than Tigers supporters who wanted the Tigers to win that grand final

 

[Colonial]

not hated like GCS and Brisbane will be now

No. It was worse and went for longer. Plus the “you dont exist” or “ you get a cheque for following the club” doesn’t exist now.

I knew nobody other than Tigers supporters who wanted the Tigers to win that grand final

Must be a small group.
2014 to 2019 was pretty much the BF main board of the last few days. “They’ll win for a decade” etc.

 

[stallon]

I think he was referring to the free agency compensation pick North were given for Ben McKay and a lot of people felt at the time that losing B.McKay didn't warrant band 1 compensation, but it was a convenient excuse to give the struggling Roos a bit of help. I assume that's what he was referring to when he mentioned "North got their help in 2023".

Yeah youre right, I messed that up.
Just helps my point though because GCS got more assistance than North did then

So it's exactly what I suggested - you're unwilling to criticise the top 5 pick North were given because 'it's too early to tell what he'll be' but you're happy to criticise Gold Coast's pick because he's 4 years older and turned out to be a good player. The issue here is you're leaving the door open for the North player to be a flop and then you won't be as outraged about the pick being given to North if he does flop. So your outrage towards help is conditional depending on how good the player becomes, not how much help the club is actually given. However, and this is where the hypocrisy really comes into play, you're more than happy to critcise the academy picks the Suns have landed in the last three years... even though 'we don't know what those kids are yet' because they were all drafted from 2023 onward. Will your opinion change if half the first round Suns academy picks end up being flops?

I do criticise the North compo picks, but the compo picks which were late first rounders(not the early pick as I earlier suggested) are incredibly minor compared to the draft access GCS and Brisbane in particular have gotten in recent years

Writing ****s sake doesn't make your point any better FYI. Just letting you know that there's a fairly good chance we're going to disagree on a lot of things because I can already tell we look at things differently. So don't be surprised when I don't agree with you in future posts. You don't have to express frustration in that way just because people don't agree with your point of view. Forums like BF are literally designed for people to discuss topics and sharing differing opinions.

I am expressing frustration because if you take a step back for a second, and look at it logically, there is just NO way you can see the academy situation as "good" or "fair". Its not the academies existing that is the problem. Its the absolutely ridiculously low price thats been paid for the very highly rated kids, meaning ou can trade your picks away too to get good players (like Petracca) while still having better access to the draft than the bottom placed clubs

Its just a disgrace on a competition that supposedly prides itself on being relatively equal, you can not deny it if you are being reasonable here

So the issue with this quote above is you're conveniently not mentioning what the Suns did to get those picks/points. I tried to provide you with context in my last post by mentioning best 22 players that were traded out like Flanders, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Chol, Fiorini etc but you've failed to mention that part again in this quote. By leaving out this crucial piece of context, you've made it sound like the Suns have received all these amazing benefits and have given up absolutely nothing to make it happen. Think about what actually happened - the Suns gave up former pick 11 Flanders for pick 7, former pick 2 Lukosius for pick 8 and bundled those two picks with their natural 2026 second round pick and their 2027 first round pick in order to land Petracca. There was a fair bit moving out of the club in order to make the Petracca trade possible.

Flandesr was fringe, Flanders pick evens out the Rioli trade like I said, both fetched overs, Flanders for Rioli was a very fair statement considering the prices and when counting first round picks
I covered all those players

You were still able to trade down a heap of your early picks for more than they were worth in points, and future picks, making all of this possible. Thats not savvy trading, thats just abusing a broken system

So what about the first round academy picks? The Suns let go of three best 22 players who all competed in the 2025 finals series in Ainsworth, Fiorini & Budarick as well as Rosas and Atkins to make it possible. They also traded away their natural first round pick + 2026 and 2027 second/third round picks to accumulate more points. Once again, there was a fair bit being moved out in order to make it possible. It's going to hurt seeing guys like Flanders, Fiorini, Budarick, Rosas etc succeeding at other clubs, but that's how trading works. You take the good with the bad.

None of those players were stars, they were role players. They fetched 2nd and 3rd round picks or whatever they got, which was fair.
Problem is you have a HEAP of other top draftees waiting for games, and you added Petracca because of the AFL having a broken system as I mentioned just above.
Flanders was good but he wasnt even in your best midfield

I just wanted to make it clear that there was a fair bit being given up in order to do what they did last year because your post could be perceived in a very misleading way. You've focused a lot on the end result and have mentioned virtually nothing about how they got there. Now if you want to debate that the Suns didn't give up enough for what was coming back in return, then we can have that subjective conversation but that's a very different point to the one I think you're trying to make.

I covered this, you had so many picks to use because you knew you were getting 4 first round picks including 2 top 5 picks anyway, and you had extra resources due to matching kids being so cheap in previous years.

And this just proves how ridiculous your point of view is and how you've overlooked so many things that occurred to make it all possible. You're essentially suggestng we gave up nothing to land Trac and 4 first round picks. I'll direct you to the text above so you can educate yourself more on what we gave up.

Overlooked nothing

So we cop more heat because we're better at drafting/developing players than North are? Again, this is the problem with your approach of suspending judgement until you know the kind of player that pick develops into. Let's try something here - say your team had finished last in 2018 and you were given a priority pick that you use to draft Sam Walsh and let's say my team finishes last in 2014 and we get given a priority pick that we use on Paddy McCartin. Have we been given the same level of help or have you been given considerably more help because Walsh develops into a good player and McCartin ends up being a flop? Your answer here will be telling.

You cop heat until the stain of the broken academy matching bid system is gone from your side, or if most of your recent kids flop(incredibly unlikely)

North were very competitive in 2019 with 10 wins on the board and only 2 wins shy of playing finals. The Suns were the opposite of competitive in 2019 and were the wooden spooners crying out for help after years of struggling with departures of both captains (Lynch & May), a Brownlow medalist and former captain (Ablett), Ah Chee, Martin, Hall, Saad, Matera etc in the two years leading up to that point.

Yeah I picked 2019 on purpose, doesnt matter, do the last 4 years with North stuck to the bottom 3, GCS still come out ahead on draft access

This is why I don't think it's fair to compare North and the Suns prior to 2020 because they were in two very different boats and North even played finals in 2018 while the Suns were languishing down the bottom and forced to play away for an extended period due to the Commonwealth Games. This is why I think comparing from 2020 onward while both teams were struggling simultaneously is more fair. The Suns didn't play finals for 15 years and lost just about every prominent player they ever drafted other than Dave Swallow, so of course there's going to be a long history of top 10 picks that are eventually traded for future top 10 picks.


But that could've been any team getting lucky with the F/S rule other than Gold Coast or GWS, right? Carlton are going to land pick 1 as an F/S pick this year after they got pick 3 as an F/S pick last year and they also got the Camporeale twins as F/S picks two years ago. They were also able to add in pick 3 Jagger Smith and another first round pick in Ashton Moir. But wait, there's more... they also traded in Florent, Hayward & Ainsworth while their only big loss was Curnow. Why aren't you more critical of Carlton with their F/S access and ability to make other big moves in the same period of time, but you're happy to criticise Brisbane for doing the same thing? Is it because you're selective with your outrage?

I have NO PROBLEM with the academies and f/s existing.

ITS THE PRICE PAID FOR THE KIDS
IF you could only match Walter and maybe Graham in 2023, then Lombard in 2024, and Uwland + late picks in 2025 then nobody would care LMAO
You were able to match so many top kids while also trading in good players, why dont you get it?

Oh so Carlton's F/S access to pick 3 last year is okay but Brisbane's F/S access to pick 5 the year before is disgraceful? It's crazy that you can't see the hypocrisy in your responses. And the cherry on top is Carlton is going to get F/S access to pick 1 this year... but that's totally okay because Carlton might be forced to trade in a late first round pick to make it possible. You can't make this stuff up.

LOL
If Carlton pay a fair price - like their entire draft hand + maybe a touch more for Walker(like they essentially paid for Jagga), then ive got very little problem with it, assuming theyre a bottom half side.
Brisbane ive got a problem because they ewre trading for good players, being top 4/premiership side AND taking top 5 kids.

I'm sure you've got some ridiculous reasoning as to why you'll be okay with Port Adelaide's priority access to 2x academy pick 2s + 2x F/S top 15 picks over the next two years as well.

If they pay fair value then its no problem. Their entire draft hand while being a bottom 8 or so side isnt that unfair, its still a little unfair but not to the extent it has been

Gee whiz. You've either got a terrible memory or you're purposely making things up to suit your narrative. GWS were constantly berated in the lead up to their 2019 GF appearance for the access they were given and people thought they were going to win 5 straight premierships due to the 'help' the AFL gave them in their foundation years. It's why they lost academy access to the Albury/Murray region because there was so much fear in relation to the Giants becoming a juggernaut. I'm sure prominent GWS posters like Colonial will be happy to educate you on this topic that you've got terribly wrong.


It's really not. You've constantly contradicted yourself and shown multiple times that you're okay with the priority access rules being applied to a club like Carlton, but very much against those same rules being applied to a team like Brisbane.


Ahh so once again Carlton get a pass (in your mind) for their high end priority access because F/S is an old rule but Gold Coast and Brisbane don't get a pass because the academies are a new rule. So you should be okay with Will Ashcroft, Jaspa Fletcher and Levi Ashcroft joining the Lions because they were recruited as F/S picks and it's an old rule, right? But wait, you already labelled that a disgrace. Something isn't adding up here...

The most ridiculous part of your point of view is that you can't see how much you're contradicting yourself.

Lol I havent contradicted myself at all
The odd f/s or whatever is fine, having 9 academy kids in 3 years, 3 top 5 picks, and 2 more i the top 10, while also trading in Petracca for 3 first round picks should not be possible when you basically traded out only role players

Just ****ing LOL

 

[stallon]

So which top 10 picks over the last fews years elevated Suns on Fri against Cats?
I will include first round picks in the last 3 years.
Walter, Read, Rogers, Graham, Lombard, Addinsall, Murray, Thomas, Patterson, Zeke Uwland?

Only Zeke Uwland (debut), Read, Graham and Lombard played. I would say only Lombard was very good and had a first breakthrough game. Dempsey did number on Zeke (4 goals).


It was Petracca, Noble, Rioli, Miller, Witts, Collins, Powell, King, Anderson, Long, Humphrey who elevated team not top 10 picks in the last few years.

Give those academy kids 2-4 more years to develop and contribute substantially.

The point is you were able to get Petracca while still adding all that top talent.
Thats more draft access than the teams stuck to the bottom of the ladder in recent years...
The last 3 years picks are still developing, theyre not meant to be carrying your team yet

 

[GC2015]

The point is you were able to get Petracca while still adding all that top talent.
Thats more draft access than the teams stuck to the bottom of the ladder in recent years...
The last 3 years picks are still developing, theyre not meant to be carrying your team yet

There you go, guys. The problem is we played by the rules that were in place at the time. How dare we! I'm not even going to bother responding to your longer post above because it's just more of the same contradictory rhetoric.

Also, suggesting any of our academy players are currently carrying our team is ridiculously wrong. Not a single academy player was named in our top 10 BnF count last year. At this point it's just comical to see how many things you get wrong as you scramble to justify your position on these things.

 

[stallon]

There you go, guys. The problem is we played by the rules that were in place at the time. How dare we! I'm not even going to bother responding to your longer post above because it's just more of the same contradictory rhetoric.

Also, suggesting any of our academy players are currently carrying our team is ridiculously wrong. Not a single academy player was named in our top 10 BnF count last year. At this point it's just comical to see how many things you get wrong as you scramble to justify your position on these things.

??
This was always the issue, your club will be disliked and any success will be tainted

You and others were wondering why GCS is so disliked, its because of reasons I stated, its just bullshit