Coach Justin Longmuir

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The players don't maintain the game plan throughout the game yet and frankly many of these players are not very skillful mechanically and mentally. Never have been. Which is why Ross gave up on the change of game style pretty quickly and went back to win our share (by everyone protecting Fyfe), bang it forward and try and scramble a goal. The system (or lack of one)relied completely on effort, which is why the players could get up for it occasionally against a good team when they collectively busted a gut to prove something and then have a horredous loss the next week.
We could always go back to the skilless, systemless amateurish tripe we had to witness for years or we can slowly integrate, upskill and educate players into a system that gives us at least a fighting chance of scoring enough to compete with the better teams in modern footy.
hawthorns first couple of years under clarkson (05 and 06) were a real process of; slowly integrate, upskill and educate players into a system that gives us at least a fighting chance of scoring enough to compete with the better teams in modern footy.
 
hawthorns first couple of years under clarkson (05 and 06) were a real process of; slowly integrate, upskill and educate players into a system that gives us at least a fighting chance of scoring enough to compete with the better teams in modern footy.
Ha ha.
There is a lot of cut and paste there. Very true.
 
A few things have me a little concerned about Longmuir going forward,

We've been more or less uncompetitive against the bona fide top sides from 2020 & 21 so far,

2020
Port - 29
Brisbane - 12
Richmond - 27
Geelong - 32
WCE - 30
Bulldogs - 30

2021
WCE - 59
Brisbane - 24

So when he says in press conferences he refers to 'playing our way', I try to think of any example where 'our way' has even remotely threatened the top teams. I don't see how anyone can be confident that the game-plan he's implementing will consistently challenge, let alone beat the very best teams.

I'm not diving headfirst into the injury excuse, have a look at every team's casualty list, there's nothing extraordinary about us.

I'm doubting his ability to inspire the players. He promised a bounce-back from the horrendous derby effort, yet the first half against Brisbane was more of the same. That game had a 60+ loss margin written all over it, the second half appeared to be a Brisbane fadeout rather than a Fremantle fightback. The only relevant fact is that when the game was there to be won, we were uncompetitive.

I was really disappointed in his media rounds leading into the Brisbane game, he repeatedly blamed the players for their efforts in the derby, which was not untrue, but when 95% of the players on the field underperformed, surely the coach has to accept some of the blame? Which he did not. I thought it might have been a strategy to illicit an improved performance, but it didn't. So what now?
The hardest task for any coach is to balance stakeholder expectations with implementing a game plan/strategy that is capable of winning a premiership. Those two things are often in direct conflict because the average person, however passionate they are, generally assesses success or failure based purely on win/loss (and margins). But progress is never linear, especially when implementing a new game plan. The vast majority of spectators (often those that have never coached themselves) will whinge and whine if their expectations (winning or winning comfortably) aren't being met. People will often overreact to both losses and wins based on how optimistic or pessimistic they are (you definitely don't see that on here at all :rolleyes:).

Unlike the guy sitting on a couch with a beer bemoaning "Why it is so hard to just win? Surely you've just got to score more than the opponent?"... getting a team of 22 from a squad of 40 odd players to implement a game plan consistently over four quarters each and every week against teams with differing game plans, strengths and weaknesses is a fair bit more complex. When you make changes it has knock on effects. Not sure of your workplace but say you were in an office you'd have training sessions to implement any changes to how you do things. You'd be a naive manager to think every single person goes back to their desk and from that moment everything works seamlessly. It takes time for it to all come together and even then it will never be perfect.

In an industry that is funded by eyes watching there is only so much you can just completely ignore the demands of the simplistic viewer base and instead do whatever you want with the end goal of a cup in sight. But if you give in completely and continually chase short term success to appease the fans then you are probably going nowhere overall in the long run.

I think it is far too early to assess Longmuir either way. I think last year we saw him implement a team defence that held structure as well as we've seen in our history in both directions. Our kicking efficiency skyrocketed from our players moving the ball downfield via short kicking. But it was too slow and allowed the opposition time to congest our forward line, meaning we'd often resort to bombing the ball inside 50 at the end of the chain (or earlier) and it getting intercepted. We didn't create nearly enough scoring opportunities but because of the slow ball movement our defensive structure behind the ball also made it harder for the opposition to move the ball on the rebound and we intercepted plenty despite missing our two key KPDs.

This year it is clear the focus has been on delivery inside 50 and creating more scoring opportunities from marks inside 50 (not bomb it in, hope to bring it to ground and lock it in until we finally score). As well as being 2nd for marks inside 50 we are 5th for shots on goal. Last year we were second last and we've been bottom 4 or so since 2016. We were only 12th in 2015 when we won the minor premiership. That is some incredible (attacking) improvement (something us supporters have been wanting for years) but fan expectations aren't being met because we aren't converting our chances and piling on scoreboard pressure. Most Freo fans wouldn't have a clue we were 2nd for marks i50 and 5th for shots on goal. They'd just see no scores over 100 and equate that to still being s**t offensively. In fairness, if we aren't finishing off the job they aren't completely wrong.

We still have plenty of gaps. Our forward line is still mostly dysfunctional. It is crazy we can have 7 defenders out and even manage to field a back line, let alone one that isn't doing the worst job. Although the mids have been far better retaining the ball, they've also been burned the other way on the spread plenty.

Personally I've been impressed by some things (eg mid-forward connection/tactical nous/skill based changes) but also disappointed by others (eg execution/pressure/accountability). We're 4-4 having endured a pretty long injury list so far this season. I think we're on par with where we should be all things considered. I've learnt not to get overly emotional over the results of individual games. But in a few weeks time I'm expecting to see overall improvement in a number of areas on top of what we've already seen. But if supporters want to jump up and down every time we lose or get overly excited every time we win then power to them. Fans come in all shapes and sizes and I think that is what makes sport great.

tldr - np, I just wanted to get all that off my chest really :)
 

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Don’t disagree but it’s both imo.

How many of our players can you actually truthfully say are good at tackling? I’d go:
Mundy
Brayshaw
Ryan
Schultz (although hasn’t been last few weeks).
Darcy (for a ruck)

That’s about it imo.

Missed tackles almost always end up as a score against.
Agree on the tackling issue for sure.. way too often the oppo has been able to break tackles and get clean disposals away..
 
for some reason (maybe being an introvert) but Tabs always leads to the absolute corners instead of directly in front. Can't make it easy.
Surely the reason is most likely to be coaching. Either as a specific part of the forward game plan, an acceptance by the coaches of a players preference/strength, or as a failure by the coaches to address it. And again in terms of coaching, a complimentary forward to partner Taberner who does lead towards the ball carrier seems obvious. Treacy should be that guy.
 
The hardest task for any coach is to balance stakeholder expectations with implementing a game plan/strategy that is capable of winning a premiership. Those two things are often in direct conflict because the average person, however passionate they are, generally assesses success or failure based purely on win/loss (and margins). But progress is never linear, especially when implementing a new game plan. The vast majority of spectators (often those that have never coached themselves) will whinge and whine if their expectations (winning or winning comfortably) aren't being met. People will often overreact to both losses and wins based on how optimistic or pessimistic they are (you definitely don't see that on here at all :rolleyes:).

Unlike the guy sitting on a couch with a beer bemoaning "Why it is so hard to just win? Surely you've just got to score more than the opponent?"... getting a team of 22 from a squad of 40 odd players to implement a game plan consistently over four quarters each and every week against teams with differing game plans, strengths and weaknesses is a fair bit more complex. When you make changes it has knock on effects. Not sure of your workplace but say you were in an office you'd have training sessions to implement any changes to how you do things. You'd be a naive manager to think every single person goes back to their desk and from that moment everything works seamlessly. It takes time for it to all come together and even then it will never be perfect.

In an industry that is funded by eyes watching there is only so much you can just completely ignore the demands of the simplistic viewer base and instead do whatever you want with the end goal of a cup in sight. But if you give in completely and continually chase short term success to appease the fans then you are probably going nowhere overall in the long run.

I think it is far too early to assess Longmuir either way. I think last year we saw him implement a team defence that held structure as well as we've seen in our history in both directions. Our kicking efficiency skyrocketed from our players moving the ball downfield via short kicking. But it was too slow and allowed the opposition time to congest our forward line, meaning we'd often resort to bombing the ball inside 50 at the end of the chain (or earlier) and it getting intercepted. We didn't create nearly enough scoring opportunities but because of the slow ball movement our defensive structure behind the ball also made it harder for the opposition to move the ball on the rebound and we intercepted plenty despite missing our two key KPDs.

This year it is clear the focus has been on delivery inside 50 and creating more scoring opportunities from marks inside 50 (not bomb it in, hope to bring it to ground and lock it in until we finally score). As well as being 2nd for marks inside 50 we are 5th for shots on goal. Last year we were second last and we've been bottom 4 or so since 2016. We were only 12th in 2015 when we won the minor premiership. That is some incredible (attacking) improvement (something us supporters have been wanting for years) but fan expectations aren't being met because we aren't converting our chances and piling on scoreboard pressure. Most Freo fans wouldn't have a clue we were 2nd for marks i50 and 5th for shots on goal. They'd just see no scores over 100 and equate that to still being sh*t offensively. In fairness, if we aren't finishing off the job they aren't completely wrong.

We still have plenty of gaps. Our forward line is still mostly dysfunctional. It is crazy we can have 7 defenders out and even manage to field a back line, let alone one that isn't doing the worst job. Although the mids have been far better retaining the ball, they've also been burned the other way on the spread plenty.

Personally I've been impressed by some things (eg mid-forward connection/tactical nous/skill based changes) but also disappointed by others (eg execution/pressure/accountability). We're 4-4 having endured a pretty long injury list so far this season. I think we're on par with where we should be all things considered. I've learnt not to get overly emotional over the results of individual games. But in a few weeks time I'm expecting to see overall improvement in a number of areas on top of what we've already seen. But if supporters want to jump up and down every time we lose or get overly excited every time we win then power to them. Fans come in all shapes and sizes and I think that is what makes sport great.

tldr - np, I just wanted to get all that off my chest really :)
Yes, we are second inside 50m marks but the differential is only 3 marks over 8 games.

I like what J Lo is trying to do structure wise.

The biggest issue is injuries and the list isn't balanced with enough good users with the ball including goal kicking.

4-4 isn't the end of the world but in contest it is.

Wins against Crows, Hawks, and Roos are all bottom 5 teams.

Win against the Giants was at home.

We got destroyed by the Blues and West Coast.

Managed ok loses against the Lions and Demons.
 
Yes, we are second inside 50m marks but the differential is only 3 marks over 8 games.

I like what J Lo is trying to do structure wise.

The biggest issue is injuries and the list isn't balanced with enough good users with the ball including goal kicking.

4-4 isn't the end of the world but in contest it is.

Wins against Crows, Hawks, and Roos are all bottom 5 teams.

Win against the Giants was at home.

We got destroyed by the Blues and West Coast.

Managed ok loses against the Lions and Demons.
All losses were away (I include WC as we never beat them) and after this week we have played 6 away and 3 home so will have 8 out of 13 games at home.
 
Surely the reason is most likely to be coaching. Either as a specific part of the forward game plan, an acceptance by the coaches of a players preference/strength, or as a failure by the coaches to address it. And again in terms of coaching, a complimentary forward to partner Taberner who does lead towards the ball carrier seems obvious. Treacy should be that guy.
Sure we are doing ok at the minute, our win loss record.
But that could go either way?
What bothers me is are we building a team for the future or
just going around in circles.
I don’t think we are missing much playing Treacy or Meek.
Add Henry, Sturt if available.
These guys have size, strength, or skills, and I’m sick of hearing about our future.
The future is now.
Treacy should be playing anywhere in the spine that is required.
Helping Logue, Cox, or all 3 rotated at least have the option.
Meek helps Darcy, we lose Darcy
or over use him, it will be like Clem Michael all over again.
Cats use Blicavs to advantage. We stick Lobb at CHF, the hardest position to play in AFL?
It’s the same with Walters, his best footy was when he was rotating.
Why? Because when we basically play one tall forward, the opposition interceptors clean us up.
In one quarter of footy we lose the match.
We cannot out score them so the
Obvious conclusion is that we need to choke them out.
 
All losses were away (I include WC as we never beat them) and after this week we have played 6 away and 3 home so will have 8 out of 13 games at home.
This. If we win tomorrow we go to 5 wins with 8 games at Optus to come. If you told me before the season we’d finish round 9 with two wins on the road and undefeated at ‘home’ with our injury list I’d take it every time. You can look at who we’ve beaten and say pfft but I’d rather look at who we’ve lost to. Winning interstate against top 8 teams is a challenge for every team as is beating WC at Optus. (Carlton was a s**t show but all teams have bad games). If we can get our contested ball mojo back we might surprise a few teams in the back half of the season. To mine it is all very close to clicking into place forJL and the boys.
 

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The only thing similar to Ross Lyons final years as Freo coach and Justin Longmuirs coaching stint is the heavy injury toll, especially down back.

It sucks having both Alex Pearce and Joel Hamling out. Having at least one back playing at full back would make a difference.

That means we have a few 190cm talls that could play at CHB in Brennan Cox, Griffen Logue, Taylin Duman and even Tobe Watson.

Saying that yes the forward line is a bit dysfunctional but there is some positives.

Taberner is having a good season. 20 goals and 10 behinds from 6 games before the Brisbane game is good. I really hope he plays every game this season or at worst 18-20 games.

Schulz has been goal less in his last 2 games but before that, he kicked 10 goals from 5 games.

The midfield is young and talented. But sadly is over relied upon the older guys in Fyfe and Mundy.

The ruck stocks is interesting. Back when Freo made finals in 2012-15. Sandilands was elite, we also had Zac Clarke, Jono Griffin, jack Hannath and a KPF ruck in Michael apeness who was injury prone.

Freo ruck stocks is Sean Darcy who is solid. Rory Lobb is a KPF ruck who should be kicking 30 goals a season. Lloyd Meek for some reason could not get a game for the dockers between 2018-2020 but finally got a run of 2-4 games and shown he can be good or at worst handy depth. Brennan Cox is 194 cm swing man that can play forward and back and can pinch hit in ruck.

To sum it up..... Ross Lyon had an ok but limited list despite having elite key position stocks in pav, Sandi, McPharlin and Johnson. There was depth in the backline, depth in the middle but a limited forward line.

Justin Longmuir has been given a young squad. It doesn't have depth like he Ross Lyon 2012-15 side but there's is versatility in this team. Logue and Cox are 2nd and 3rd tall defenders but could play forward.

Guys like cerra and Brayshaw and young and Henry and Serong are very talented mids compared to Suban, Deboer and clancee Pearce.

That forward line is a versatile forward line. Pavlich in his prime could kick 50-70 goals a season. Most dockers fans would like Lobb and tabs to kick 50-70 between them or 30-35 goals each.

Walters under Lyon was a forward pocket but slowly became a forward flanker and winger.

Ballantyne was solid in his day, yes he didn't mind niggling he opposition back line but he could be on a receiving end of a punch to someone like Scarlett. You wouldn't play him in a wing.

We got smalls in Crowden, Schulz and Bewley as guys that can play as small forwards on a pocket or Forward flank. I want at least one of those 3 to kick 25-35 goals a season
 
Ok, I’ll take a break after this from being critical of him, because I’ve been fairly prevalent

But this is the third week where he’s blamed the players for failing to execute, so maybe he should start to acknowledge that the coaching methods are not penetrating appropriately?

The last question was why Conca was named as the substitute, he replied sourly

“Because he has areas of his game that he needs to work on”

Yeah it’s probably true, but Conca is in the leadership group and exposing him like that publicly is absolutely unnecessary.
 
Longmuir said the forward half has functioned well until this game. :oops:
Delusional if he thinks 6 under performing smalls , a reasonable effort from Tabs and a flaky Lobb is functioning forward line.
Thinking the forwards are doing well is the reason for no changes. Poor selection and poor coaching. If the coaching panel can't see that the forward line is s**t then what chance have we got.
 
Ok, I’ll take a break after this from being critical of him, because I’ve been fairly prevalent

But this is the third week where he’s blamed the players for failing to execute, so maybe he should start to acknowledge that the coaching methods are not penetrating appropriately?

The last question was why Conca was named as the substitute, he replied sourly

“Because he has areas of his game that he needs to work on”

Yeah it’s probably true, but Conca is in the leadership group and exposing him like that publicly is absolutely unnecessary.
The playing group was poor today, the game plan had Essendon covered most of the the day. A lack of composure often by the players cost us that game & to say methods aren’t penetrating when there are so many poor errors, is not correct.

The difference between us & the top consistent teams is 5 errors a quarter in regards to missed targets or poor decision making.

The players lack composure.
 
The playing group was poor today, the game plan had Essendon covered most of the the day. A lack of composure often by the players cost us that game & to say methods aren’t penetrating when there are so many poor errors, is not correct.

The difference between us & the top consistent teams is 5 errors a quarter in regards to missed targets or poor decision making.

The players lack composure.

Lyon got blamed for the players lack of skill. Who gets the blame now?
 
Lyon got blamed for the players lack of skill. Who gets the blame now?

Lyon had 8 seasons to try fix it though, JLo has had 1.5.

We might not be putting the score on the board yet but we look a lot more dangerous going forward under JLo than Lyon's 'kick it as high and long and slow as possible into the forward line' gameplan.
 
Lyon had 8 seasons to try fix it though, JLo has had 1.5.

We might not be putting the score on the board yet but we look a lot more dangerous going forward under JLo than Lyon's 'kick it as high and long and slow as possible into the forward line' gameplan.

Are you forgetting the first 5 seasons under Lyon. Pav , Ballas , Walters, Mayne all managed plenty of goals. De Boer the perfect lock it in forward.
With 2 talls and 6 smalls running around their feet in the current team kick it long might not be a bad idea .
Trying to find the perfect pass or handball is not working.
 
Are you forgetting the first 5 seasons under Lyon. Pav , Ballas , Walters, Mayne all managed plenty of goals. De Boer the perfect lock it in forward.
With 2 talls and 6 smalls running around their feet in the current team kick it long might not be a bad idea .
Trying to find the perfect pass or handball is not working.
lol really.

Got us to a gf and still can't get any love from his own clubs supporters
 
Are you forgetting the first 5 seasons under Lyon. Pav , Ballas , Walters, Mayne all managed plenty of goals. De Boer the perfect lock it in forward.
With 2 talls and 6 smalls running around their feet in the current team kick it long might not be a bad idea .
Trying to find the perfect pass or handball is not working.

You just answered your own criticism! JLo would kill to have a Pav, Walters in his prime, Ballas and a developing Tabs! Instead he’s stuck with Tabs, a shadow of his former self Walters and that’s it!
 
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