Coach Justin Longmuir - Head Coach

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tacopavlich

Premiership Player
Oct 19, 2010
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We’re going through a mini list rebuild now, because it wasn’t done right in the first place, with recent draftees not really impacting for another 2-3 years. He has the right to develop them for his game style.

That's pretty much nonsense, there's no mini list rebuild, it just takes more than 2 seasons to do so. JLo is inheriting a list that's further along one, pretty much a dream case scenario for a new coach. Have no issues with Longmuir but the list is 5 years into a rebuild, it's reasonable to expect pressure which an early extension doesn't achieve.
 

DragoDelph

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Sep 30, 2020
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Are we forgetting that if things turn to sh*t, and we need to let him go, we only have to pay out 6 months? Not the whole contract.

the extension now shows faith in the direction, and removes the perceived pressure from external for a while. Gives the players confidence to re-sign and extend as well.

It’s an important step, showing the confidence to extend early, but is not the handcuff many seem to think it is
 

poshman

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How would you deem success then? At the moment it seems that success is based on the vibe of the thing plus the fact he isn't Lyon.
The club can't have it both ways. I'd actually support giving him an extension now if they really did think internally our list is miles off and we need to spend a couple of years not focused on results but focused on development. That is when you do want a coach to be under no pressure and allow him to play the youth.
But all the rhetoric is the opposite. Fyfe came out at the start of last year and said he expected to play finals. The club has now doubled down on that. They obviously think we have a list to challenge. So it seems premature to extend him until he proves he is the one that can harness that and actually get enough wins, not enough good vibes or potentials. Get those wins then by all means extend him if we are sitting pretty in the eight by the bye or beyond next year.

And Longmuir in the vids put out with the announcement has expressed they are no longer accepting mediocrity. The stance from the club is very much about the finals and the 5 year plan.

One of the issues I have with extensions are the payout and the effect on the soft cap. Unlike the corporate world where a payout has a minimal effect that can be offset by a potentially positive market bounce with the new hire, in the afl the team is potentially punished through the cap. I am not sure how wise it is for most teams to extend prematurely with the cap ramifications.

****as mentioned below, I missed that we would only pay out 6 months of the contract - changes most of my problem with the extension****

Hoping we play finals this year, if we don't then we will have underachieved. Also... just from an enjoyment pov, would be so nice to watch a team heading to the finals and that wins more than we lose!
 

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poshman

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Are we forgetting that if things turn to sh*t, and we need to let him go, we only have to pay out 6 months? Not the whole contract.

the extension now shows faith in the direction, and removes the perceived pressure from external for a while. Gives the players confidence to re-sign and extend as well.

It’s an important step, showing the confidence to extend early, but is not the handcuff many seem to think it is

I missed this completely... I have only looked at the vids on kayo. So this basically takes away most of my issue with the extension. Where did you find this info?
 

DragoDelph

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Sep 30, 2020
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I missed this completely... I have only looked at the vids on kayo. So this basically takes away most of my issue with the extension. Where did you find this info?
Was introduced by the AFL a couple of years ago, and as far as I am aware is part of all new coaching contracts.
Was designed to stop club’s shooting themselves in the foot with long contracts, and then having things all go to hell. With the subsequent payout affecting future years soft cap.
Pretty sure Clarko was one of the last old contracts without this clause.
 

malpaso

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Aug 30, 2004
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That's pretty much nonsense, there's no mini list rebuild, it just takes more than 2 seasons to do so. JLo is inheriting a list that's further along one, pretty much a dream case scenario for a new coach. Have no issues with Longmuir but the list is 5 years into a rebuild, it's reasonable to expect pressure which an early extension doesn't achieve.
Yeah that's crap. Longmuir is not accountable for 3 years of your 5 year rebuild and nor should he be.
We can't just keep going through coaches so now Longmuir has 5 years in total locked in which is excellent and shows committment across the board to not only the coach but the players and off-field team as well.
Our gameplan is completely different and Longmuir's first two seasons have been through COVID. In my opinion Freo have made a lot of good decisions across the board and have a clear path which has been very well articulated to the supporter base.
Using a coach's contract or lack thereof to apply 'pressure' is ridiculous, they are under enough as it is.
 

arsesmart

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Sep 25, 2018
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This is partly correct but in context the rebuild started in 2017.
A line in the sand has to be drawn sometime.
2022 is 5 years, if we are not on the improve with that list something is not right?
Any coach would like what we have compiled, looking from the outside.
Even JLo is expecting a rapid rise.
In reality though, what anyone names a period this or that or as starting or stopping is perception building, what actually determines it is the state of the list. Also bringing in a rookie coach will likely significantly impact too.
 

poshman

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Was introduced by the AFL a couple of years ago, and as far as I am aware is part of all new coaching contracts.
Was designed to stop club’s shooting themselves in the foot with long contracts, and then having things all go to hell. With the subsequent payout affecting future years soft cap.
Pretty sure Clarko was one of the last old contracts without this clause.

I will have a look around. I am not sure I like the idea of this being put into place, purely on the basis of letting teams and execs be accountable for their decisions. But if it is in place then the extension isn't a big deal.
 

WilloTree

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That's pretty much nonsense, there's no mini list rebuild, it just takes more than 2 seasons to do so. JLo is inheriting a list that's further along one, pretty much a dream case scenario for a new coach. Have no issues with Longmuir but the list is 5 years into a rebuild, it's reasonable to expect pressure which an early extension doesn't achieve.
I agree, but I'm realistic.

We've recently lost Neale, Hill, Langdon, Hogan and Cerra to other clubs.

McCarthy, Kersten, Matera, Conca are all gone from the first 'rebuild' and Hamling looks cooked.

That's a truck load of talent JLo has to replace.

It's remarkable we're not bottom 4.
 

tacopavlich

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I agree, but I'm realistic.

We've recently lost Neale, Hill, Langdon, Hogan and Cerra to other clubs.

McCarthy, Kersten, Matera, Conca are all gone from the first 'rebuild' and Hamling looks cooked.

That's a truck load of talent JLo has to replace.

It's remarkable we're not bottom 4.

Langdon was a scapegoat on this board and Hill was never likely to be apart of the next contending side. Neale Hogan Cerra and McCarthy are genuine setbacks but every club has them. The quality of the list is far from bottom 4, that's just silly, in reality 10-12 finish last year is only barely scraping what should be considered acceptable at this stage.
 

WilloTree

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Langdon was a scapegoat on this board and Hill was never likely to be apart of the next contending side. Neale Hogan Cerra and McCarthy are genuine setbacks but every club has them. The quality of the list is far from bottom 4, that's just silly, in reality 10-12 finish last year is only barely scraping what should be considered acceptable at this stage.
Wasn't Brad Hill 22/23 when we traded him in?

Hill, Hamling and Langdon are Premiership players and Neale is a Brownlow Medalist.

You're vastly underestimating the talent that has left.
 

ignoramus

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Aug 17, 2020
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It was more of a comment on the constant rhetoric about finals, premierships etc. It's not just our club by any stretch but it all seems a bit silly to set these concrete targets to me, even though I know it's probably a necessity. The reality is far less black and white given that things like injuries, COVID and losing players have undoubtedly influenced our trajectory of development along with the success of each individual season.
So much ^this
 

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VicDocker

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Mar 16, 2021
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The idea that a 2 year contract extension relieves pressure is a bit misguided. JL has one job, and it's to win a flag. That job doesn't change because we've said he can have a go for two more years after this one. He's also not kicking back in his lazyboy breathing a big sigh of relief, the weight of expectation from a success-starved supporter base will be plenty.

We have been talking constantly about sustained success, and the clubs with sustained success have all backed in their coaches for the whole journey. The 5 year plan being released already meant the club was going to stick with JL - if you reckon we're a better shot of making top 4 with a brand new coach than we are with the incumbent then you're dreaming.
 

Square Peg

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Jul 20, 2014
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Better results on and off the field not a factor?

Give it a rest.
LOL you again, why do I have to give it a rest just because I say something you disagree with? It's a discussion board.
Just for the record please tell the boys and girls again what your measure of better results on the field is? One extra win from 2019 to 2021 season wasn't it? Some people might have greater ambition before declaring that a success.
As for off the field, what better results are they? It's not membership, Fremantle and GWS were the only clubs where membership fell in the past 12 months. What tangible metrics are you using? Or is it just another vibe thing.
 

WilloTree

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LOL you again, why do I have to give it a rest just because I say something you disagree with? It's a discussion board.
Just for the record please tell the boys and girls again what your measure of better results on the field is? One extra win from 2019 to 2021 season wasn't it? Some people might have greater ambition before declaring that a success.
As for off the field, what better results are they? It's not membership, Fremantle and GWS were the only clubs where membership fell in the past 12 months. What tangible metrics are you using? Or is it just another vibe thing.
Mate, in 2018/19 we lost over 4000 members.

You'd prefer we went back to the members walking out in droves?

As you can see, not a vibe thing - a pesky stats thing.
 

Vimal Anand

Team Captain
Oct 19, 2015
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I agree, but I'm realistic.

We've recently lost Neale, Hill, Langdon, Hogan and Cerra to other clubs.

McCarthy, Kersten, Matera, Conca are all gone from the first 'rebuild' and Hamling looks cooked.

That's a truck load of talent JLo has to replace.

It's remarkable we're not bottom 4.
Some compare Lyons win loss ratio of 2017 to 19 with Jlos 2020 21 and say he should be sacked. But the point you made with hill langdon, neale Weller (2017) fit hamling and other matured guys you mentioned is important.. It made Lyons stats better. Suddenly they are replaced with 18 year old, our wings not settled, midfield inexperienced like serong brayshaw... with this list Jlo keeping up with Lyons stats is good achievement. Total average age being equal under both coaches is insignificant as those guys mentioned is replaced by 18 year olds.

On SM-A205YN using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

poshman

Premiership Player
Oct 13, 2006
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Mate, in 2018/19 we lost over 4000 members.

You'd prefer we went back to the members walking out in droves?

As you can see, not a vibe thing - a pesky stats thing.

You said on and off field when you made your argument. We have at best stagnated on the field. The results we have had under Longmuir would not have been accepted under the previous coach.

This is not an argument that we shouldn't have moved on. Lyon so before people jump all over that, please, let's leave it.

Aside from a 'vibe' of positivity and the marketing team doing well, what has improved on the field? One more win - weakened percentage - scoring is still a major issue.

We need to make finals this year. If we don't it should be seen as a failure. The club agrees, Longmuir agrees, so we should back them in as they know more than us.
 

WilloTree

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You said on and off field when you made your argument. We have at best stagnated on the field. The results we have had under Longmuir would not have been accepted under the previous coach.
Lyon had a 4 win season and stayed on for another 3 years.

Seesh - some short memories around here.
 

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