Coach Justin Longmuir - Head Coach

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WilloTree

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I have argued many times that Lyon inherited a team with at least one A grade player in each part of the ground.
This is just not true.

Lyon had a team with 10 All Australians including a midfield of Sandilands, Pavlich, Fyfe, Neale and Mundy. 16 AAs and 3 Brownlows.

I can see we're done here.
 
Last edited:

Purpletown

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I think the Lyon revisionism topic is my least favourite on this board.

And that's saying something, because reading most of the politics thread is like dragging my scrotum over broken glass.

Amen regarding the politics thread. The only good thing about it is that it keeps most of that stuff in one thread for those who wish to indulge and helps keep most of the other threads on topic.
 

wayToGo_

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Just my opinion but I think there has been major improvement on field from an entertainment perspective since Longmuir took over. And really that has been the most important thing to address immediately post Lyon imo. Both the crowd and the players seem to be enjoying themselves much more at games.

As a spectator I'd like it to continue to improve (and the signs of faster/riskier ball movement at training sound good) but the focus probably shifts now to getting enough wins to make finals and fill out the list (via development, coaching team, game plan and recruitment) to be in premiership contention. If we don't start seeing that then JL should be under scrutiny - but it is far too early after just two years.

I don't get why anyone thinks Lyon would have had us playing finals and in premiership contention if he hadn't been let go? We were treading water doing enough not to bottom out completely (which in retrospect might have helped us more if we did) but we were losing top players every year and seemed devoid of a clear direction of where we were heading both on and off field. Meanwhile Longmuir has come in and completely overhauled the game plan, brought in a new coaching team and built a real buzz around our younger brigade helping lead Freo to their maiden premiership.

Richmond and Melbourne backed in their under-achieving coaches and it paid off. I don't see why we wouldn't roll the dice with JL? A contract extension makes a lot of sense imo.
 

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raffrox

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It's simple really.

IF we currently believe Longmuir is the right coach to take us forward I am of the strong belief (as I feel the club is) that you do all that is reasonable to create a stable and supportive environment to deliver the best possible outcomes.

IF you believe in some kind of mid-90's management technique where you need to keep people on their toes and on edge for them to succeed then good luck to you. It's some old school thinking though.

When the evidence says that something isn't working then by all means be decisive and sack people. No one gets a free ride but if you are trying to get the best out of a group of people then making it a bit rougher for them as some kind of way of motivating them is just a bit odd.

I've said it before, if we don't think Longmuir is the right coach you sack him now. Otherwise you do what you can to increase the probability of the current situation succeeding. Stability is a clear strategy to do this.

There's more teams that have been successful in staying the course and backing in their strategy than creating artificial pressure internally through contract "motivation".

We can argue all day about Ross and Longmuir but ultimately there is a plan and the team is looking to execute it. Longmuir is a significant part of this. If its the wrong plan or the wrong people, we fail but the club seems more confident than it has for a very long time.
 

Superkoops

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I can’t be buggered reading all the posts but people need to move on from Rosco who had run his race with Freo one season too many for mine.

JL’s first year was severely disrupted with COVID and limited training capacity. Last season was really his first meaningful season to be judged on. We need a minimum of 11 wins or more for 2022 to have us knocking on the door of the 8 or inside the top 8 playing finals. Signing up for a further 2 years is reasonable and he is improving as a coach and has done quite well. He has now had time to start getting traction on his game style.

Having a stable environment is much more conducive to positive onfield performance.

Id like to see the proof in the pudding for the new medical and conditioning team and improved player personnel. Get this sorted and we will start pushing up the ladder.
 

Purple Suit

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It's simple really.

IF we currently believe Longmuir is the right coach to take us forward I am of the strong belief (as I feel the club is) that you do all that is reasonable to create a stable and supportive environment to deliver the best possible outcomes.

IF you believe in some kind of mid-90's management technique where you need to keep people on their toes and on edge for them to succeed then good luck to you. It's some old school thinking though.

When the evidence says that something isn't working then by all means be decisive and sack people. No one gets a free ride but if you are trying to get the best out of a group of people then making it a bit rougher for them as some kind of way of motivating them is just a bit odd.

I've said it before, if we don't think Longmuir is the right coach you sack him now. Otherwise you do what you can to increase the probability of the current situation succeeding. Stability is a clear strategy to do this.

There's more teams that have been successful in staying the course and backing in their strategy than creating artificial pressure internally through contract "motivation".

We can argue all day about Ross and Longmuir but ultimately there is a plan and the team is looking to execute it. Longmuir is a significant part of this. If its the wrong plan or the wrong people, we fail but the club seems more confident than it has for a very long time.
100%

The last coach i can think of that won the flag without stability and a long tenure was Luke Beverage (2 in the last 20 years). JL has shown enough and the players are doing enough that he deserves an extension now. It's not about next year, it's building a team for an extended run at it. Stability means he can coach for the future rather than trying to play experienced players and eek out a few more wins at the cost of this. Or worse, a 1 year extension and we go into the trade period trying to top up again.

He's our man, get behind him.
 

Van_Dyke

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Personally think most of these arguments are correct, just framed differently.
- We've grown marginally on field (if at all)
- Off field we are far better off, the vibe of the place in Lyon's last few years was just not conducive to success
- The vibe of the place now is terrific
- JL has not really accomplished anything tangible yet
- Lyon is the greatest coach we've had and given his impact on the club and becoming relevant, will only be passed by one who wins our first flag IMO.

I've said on here I wasnt keen on extending but I do agree with the idea that having him out of contract would have been an unneeded distraction. Additionally, history says 3 years is never enough time to definitively say whether a new coach is any good or not - especially when the club is midway through a complete list turnover. So I've come around and think the extension is correct. Heads will role if nothing is achieved by 2024 though (need to be contending), and it wont just be JL.
agree with basically all of this, personally would have preferred 1 year + a pretty favourable trigger for his extension but the initial 3 year deal made it a little awkward IMO
 

Purpletown

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100%

The last coach i can think of that won the flag without stability and a long tenure was Luke Beverage (2 in the last 20 years). JL has shown enough and the players are doing enough that he deserves an extension now. It's not about next year, it's building a team for an extended run at it. Stability means he can coach for the future rather than trying to play experienced players and eek out a few more wins at the cost of this. Or worse, a 1 year extension and we go into the trade period trying to top up again.

He's our man, get behind him.

It's a very good point you make about giving JL the security to coach for a longer term view rather than the short term. Obviously this is part of the reason for the extension now rather than leaving that for a latter time.
 

tacopavlich

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I don't get why anyone thinks Lyon would have had us playing finals and in premiership contention if he hadn't been let go? We were treading water doing enough not to bottom out completely (which in retrospect might have helped us more if we did) but we were losing top players every year and seemed devoid of a clear direction of where we were heading both on and off field. Meanwhile Longmuir has come in and completely overhauled the game plan, brought in a new coaching team and built a real buzz around our younger brigade helping lead Freo to their maiden premiership.

Is this really a criticism that Lyon had us too competitive while the list was being turned over? Teams lose good players all the time, happened with Lyon, continues with the current coach and will continue after that. A positive of Longmuir is he is liked by the fanbase which Lyon was not, which is good for optics and memberships which is great. Players reportedly like him which is also great. But it really isn't difficult to argue a coach that has a documented history of making grand finals couldn't do so again, like you say yourself 2 years is too early to judge a coach yet it was for Longmuir's predecessor.
 

CapitalA

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I don't understand what you mean. Lyon was at the club 8 years. Where are you getting 2 from?
Also it was 4 years of quite mediocre performance, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019. So would it not be fair for JL to get at least 4 years before the talk of sackings?
 

WilloTree

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Also it was 4 years of quite mediocre performance, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019. So would it not be fair for JL to get at least 4 years before the talk of sackings?
Interestingly, Mark Harvey was at the club for 5 years. Won a final by 5 goals in his penultimate year, then had a 9 win season and was sacked for...

... Ross Lyon.
 

Freomaniac

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Interestingly, Mark Harvey was at the club for 5 years. Won a final by 5 goals in his penultimate year, then had a 9 win season and was sacked for...

... Ross Lyon.
You also forgot the state of Freos list when Mark Harvey 1st coached in mid 2007.

Freo at the 2007 draft recruited 3 young players in Rhys Palmer, Clayton Hinkley and Chris Mayne. Then used 1 draft pick on a mature ager in josh head then 2 picks on Essendon players in Kepler Bradley and Jason Johnson.

It had some good core players. But you think back at the end of 2008.....

Freos list at the end of 2008 was a mess. Freo finished 14th out of 16 and had the oldest list in the AFL. Only had 6 or 7 players aged 23 or under the next worst side had at least 18 players.

This is partially due to trading our 1st and 2nd rounders every 2nd year from 2000-2006.

Also I remembered the end of 2005, Freo only cut the minimum 3 players and used the minimum 3 draft picks in 2005 when Freo should of cut more dead wood. At least 5 players each year.
 

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Tbonefreo

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Loved Jlo as a player and as a Coach.

He deserves a solid run at it, the players love him. He has a good crew around him and backing from the big heads.

Good young squad.

Just need the players to stay healthy. Really simple. If we hit our straps early then 14 wins isn't out of the question. Im confident he is the right man for the job
 

Tbonefreo

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Loved Jlo as a player and as a Coach.

He deserves a solid run at it, the players love him. He has a good crew around him and backing from the big heads.

Good young squad.

Just need the players to stay healthy. Really simple. If we hit our straps early then 14 wins isn't out of the question. Im confident he is the right man for the job
 

Tbonefreo

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Loved Jlo as a player and as a Coach.

He deserves a solid run at it, the players love him. He has a good crew around him and backing from the big heads.

Good young squad.

Just need the players to stay healthy. Really simple. If we hit our straps early then 14 wins isn't out of the question. Im confident he is the right man for the job
 

blue shark

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Interestingly, Mark Harvey was at the club for 5 years. Won a final by 5 goals in his penultimate year, then had a 9 win season and was sacked for...

... Ross Lyon.
Mark was a great player, assistant coach. Decided to do a rebuild over heavy handed trading.
But let’s not forget it was Scott who was the brains behind the
scenes.
Just like Kirk, Suma, with Lyon it’s the entire coaching group not just one person.
I know many will respond about Suma, but he was experienced.
The club failed with Ross the Boss, and I think history proves you need the best assistants available in the box.
Off the field I have never seen how better qualified we are now.
Mark and Lyon lost the group, Pav with Harvey, Ross with Neale.
Everyone is on board at Freo, which is a hell of a lot better than shooting yourself in the foot.
 

BigRang

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Fair dinkum...
You negative Nancies need your heads read if you think we haven't improved over the last two years. This is the timeline as I see it, correct me if I'm wrong.

Year 1 (Covid) JLO inherits VERY shaky list. Starts building 'his own' list and gets defence part of game plan sorted WITHOUT half of our first choice defenders.

Year 2 JLo get NEW S&C department (This is VERY important) and starts to gets transition part of game plan started. Fyfe end season early and Sonny is underdone but we still knock on finals door. We ditch bad eggs/passengers and draft more good C#&+$, including a couple of ACTUAL FORWARDS.

Year 3 (Now) After 1 year the S&C department looks like it's making inroads (Touch wood) which is good. They were never going to turn things around overnight. Hammer and Moose look to have turned the corner, almost a full squad on the track. Most of the fellas stayed around over summer and trained together a sure sign that the players are invested. From all reports, at training there has been a noticed increase in transition and intensity. We have also ditched Hale, and brought in Graham and Lecca to work with the forwards which is a great move IMO. Like it or not, the Eagles have had a VERY well functioning forward line for some time now and the influence of these two will go a long way I think because our forward line has been a rabble for years now.

I really do fail to see how things aren't headed in the right direction. We've got a nicely balanced young list now, with quite obviously a coach that has a good tactical nous and is popular with the players. If you thought we were going to be a top four side the first year after JLo came aboard, well let's just say when the good lord was handing out brains you probably thought they were milkshakes and asked for thick one...
Things are headed in the right direction gang, stay the course.
Another 2 years is fine by me.
 

Wray27

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It's simple really.

IF we currently believe Longmuir is the right coach to take us forward I am of the strong belief (as I feel the club is) that you do all that is reasonable to create a stable and supportive environment to deliver the best possible outcomes.

IF you believe in some kind of mid-90's management technique where you need to keep people on their toes and on edge for them to succeed then good luck to you. It's some old school thinking though.

When the evidence says that something isn't working then by all means be decisive and sack people. No one gets a free ride but if you are trying to get the best out of a group of people then making it a bit rougher for them as some kind of way of motivating them is just a bit odd.

I've said it before, if we don't think Longmuir is the right coach you sack him now. Otherwise you do what you can to increase the probability of the current situation succeeding. Stability is a clear strategy to do this.

There's more teams that have been successful in staying the course and backing in their strategy than creating artificial pressure internally through contract "motivation".

We can argue all day about Ross and Longmuir but ultimately there is a plan and the team is looking to execute it. Longmuir is a significant part of this. If its the wrong plan or the wrong people, we fail but the club seems more confident than it has for a very long time.
Brilliantly said and spot on👍🏻
 

poshman

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This is just not true.

Lyon had a team with 10 All Australians including a midfield of Sandilands, Pavlich, Fyfe, Neale and Mundy. 16 AAs and 3 Brownlows.

I can see we're done here.

You are agreeing with me... there was at least one on every line.
 

malpaso

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There are literally people on this board that are all negative, nothing the club or players do changes their thought process. Always something to tear down and gripe about.
Most importantly none of them have run a sporting club before at a professional level which is all you need to know.
 

theGav56

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There are literally people on this board that are all negative, nothing the club or players do changes their thought process. Always something to tear down and gripe about.
Most importantly none of them have run a sporting club before at a professional level which is all you need to know.
Apparently people who have run sporting clubs at a professional level have their own board. They discuss things like covid, nuclear fusion, contemporary dance. Gets really fiery I've heard.
 

poshman

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There are literally people on this board that are all negative, nothing the club or players do changes their thought process. Always something to tear down and gripe about.
Most importantly none of them have run a sporting club before at a professional level which is all you need to know.

To be fair I am not sure I have seen a poster who is all negative on here for a long time. Even Memories was positive at times. Bushie... he also managed to be positive at times, and often hilarious. Yyou doesn't rate Brayshaw but is positive about other things...

Happy for them to be pointed out, but I don't think anyone here who has said they aren't sure or others who are saying they don't think he should have been extended are all negative. Then again one of the only thing I think of in absolutes is that I think absolutes are rarely or close to never accurate or helpful.

Given there seems to be mixed details on if we would have to pay him out if we let him go early, I am not sure we should have extended this early. Having said that, I am excited about the season ahead and think that we will finish in the eight. I am expecting a 12-13 win season. I think we will continue to see JL grow and his coaching team with him. I have questions around J Carr but other than that think we have what seems to be a strong team of coaches. I will keep this aimed at JL and coaches but there is a lot to be excited and positive about, while still holding the view about the extension and concerns about our injury history. Another concern is the loss of development to players like sturt if they are continually injured.

On another positive note I think we will have at least three players on the AA squad this season. If that happens JL will and should get some credit.
 

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