Coach Justin Longmuir

[poshman]

There are literally people on this board that are all negative, nothing the club or players do changes their thought process. Always something to tear down and gripe about.
Most importantly none of them have run a sporting club before at a professional level which is all you need to know.

To be fair I am not sure I have seen a poster who is all negative on here for a long time. Even Memories was positive at times. Bushie... he also managed to be positive at times, and often hilarious. Yyou doesn't rate Brayshaw but is positive about other things...

Happy for them to be pointed out, but I don't think anyone here who has said they aren't sure or others who are saying they don't think he should have been extended are all negative. Then again one of the only thing I think of in absolutes is that I think absolutes are rarely or close to never accurate or helpful.

Given there seems to be mixed details on if we would have to pay him out if we let him go early, I am not sure we should have extended this early. Having said that, I am excited about the season ahead and think that we will finish in the eight. I am expecting a 12-13 win season. I think we will continue to see JL grow and his coaching team with him. I have questions around J Carr but other than that think we have what seems to be a strong team of coaches. I will keep this aimed at JL and coaches but there is a lot to be excited and positive about, while still holding the view about the extension and concerns about our injury history. Another concern is the loss of development to players like sturt if they are continually injured.

On another positive note I think we will have at least three players on the AA squad this season. If that happens JL will and should get some credit.

 

[Moo]

You get their in the coaching department by bringing in a known quantity or developing your own.

We've invested in the develop your own path and the most important thing is JLo has had plenty of time to develop a gameplan and pick the cattle to go with this gameplan.

I've seen sound improvement in JLo's time and think the speed we have now developed across the back/mid line will hold us in good stead.

Really interested to see that round 1 team ...if we've got a full list to choose from - it'd be great to see who the club rates as our best back 6 and 2 wingers.

 

[Mags98]

To be fair I am not sure I have seen a poster who is all negative on here for a long time. Even Memories was positive at times. Bushie... he also managed to be positive at times, and often hilarious. Yyou doesn't rate Brayshaw but is positive about other things...

Happy for them to be pointed out, but I don't think anyone here who has said they aren't sure or others who are saying they don't think he should have been extended are all negative. Then again one of the only thing I think of in absolutes is that I think absolutes are rarely or close to never accurate or helpful.

Given there seems to be mixed details on if we would have to pay him out if we let him go early, I am not sure we should have extended this early. Having said that, I am excited about the season ahead and think that we will finish in the eight. I am expecting a 12-13 win season. I think we will continue to see JL grow and his coaching team with him. I have questions around J Carr but other than that think we have what seems to be a strong team of coaches. I will keep this aimed at JL and coaches but there is a lot to be excited and positive about, while still holding the view about the extension and concerns about our injury history. Another concern is the loss of development to players like sturt if they are continually injured.

On another positive note I think we will have at least three players on the AA squad this season. If that happens JL will and should get some credit.

3 is a big call

assuming its brayshaw, darcy and pearce?

 

[Sully90]

3 is a big call

assuming its brayshaw, darcy and pearce?

I'll go with Fyfe, Pearce, and Taberner.

Can't see Darcy going past Gawn just yet, and Brayshaw is probably still at least 1 more year away from AA midfielder levels.

Fyfe and Pearce will remind everyone how good they are injuries aside.

Taberner just because.

 

[theGav56]

I'll go with Fyfe, Pearce, and Taberner.

Can't see Darcy going past Gawn just yet, and Brayshaw is probably still at least 1 more year away from AA midfielder levels.

Fyfe and Pearce will remind everyone how good they are injuries aside.

Taberner just because.

He doesn't have to have gone past Gawn to be in the AA squad.

 

[eastfreo75]

The issue extending J Lo too early is that it reduces your options if things go pear shaped.

The issue not extending J Lo too early is that increases noise around the coach and doesn't give much confidence in the coach.

My solution for future hiring coaches is give a new coach 4 years contract but the club has an option on the fourth.

Therefore the club does a review at the end of year 2 and then decides to take the fourth year option.

The issue is that most coaches in year 1 get a raise in performance due to other teams unable to scout your game style fully. Year 2 opposition coaches know your style and how you do things.

Three year is the real test, to see if you can counter other coaches.

 

[poshman]

3 is a big call

assuming its brayshaw, darcy and pearce?

Squad is 44 IIRC -

Darcy - Brayshaw - Fyfe

I think Ryan - Pearce - Tabs and another could be in the conversation as well.

Pearce would have been AA if he could have strung a couple of 20 game seasons together. Luckily he should still be entering his prime.

 

[theGav56]

The issue extending J Lo too early is that it reduces your options if things go pear shaped.

The issue not extending J Lo too early is that increases noise around the coach and doesn't give much confidence in the coach.

My solution for future hiring coaches is give a new coach 4 years contract but the club has an option on the fourth.

Therefore the club does a review at the end of year 2 and then decides to take the fourth year option.

The issue is that most coaches in year 1 get a raise in performance due to other teams unable to scout your game style fully. Year 2 opposition coaches know your style and how you do things.

Three year is the real test, to see if you can counter other coaches.

I think any experienced coach gets a 3-4 year deal.

Any rookie gets 2 years, which gets extended to 3 as soon as they pass the Neeld test.

 

[masai tu]

There are literally people on this board that are all negative, nothing the club or players do changes their thought process. Always something to tear down and gripe about.
Most importantly none of them have run a sporting club before at a professional level which is all you need to know.

Less words is better, just call them Negative Nellies. Nothing is ever good enough for them.

 

[WilloTree]

There are literally people on this board that are all negative, nothing the club or players do changes their thought process. Always something to tear down and gripe about.
Most importantly none of them have run a sporting club before at a professional level which is all you need to know.

yep - it's frustrating watching them ignore what's in front of them.

Even when you explain it, they either don't understand or get very defensive.

 

[blue shark]

Can we have a similar trajectory as the Brisbane Lions had in 2019?
They really lifted their intensity and attack on the ball and player.
The only teams we beat in the top 8 were GWS and Sydney. Of the others we should of beaten the Bombers. The others teams just physically beat us up.
Probably the worse image was of Wilson in the goal square. But he isn’t alone in that department.
At times Acres, Tucker have disappointed, experienced AFL players.
Plenty of skill and pace, but can JLo create a home fortress that has teams feeling the pinch?

 

[pride of the West]

This is just not true.

Lyon had a team with 10 All Australians including a midfield of Sandilands, Pavlich, Fyfe, Neale and Mundy. 16 AAs and 3 Brownlows.

I can see we're done here.

3 brownlows ?

 

[masai tu]

3 brownlows ?

Neale + the truckie.

 

[eastfreo75]

Can we have a similar trajectory as the Brisbane Lions had in 2019?
They really lifted their intensity and attack on the ball and player.
The only teams we beat in the top 8 were GWS and Sydney. Of the others we should of beaten the Bombers. The others teams just physically beat us up.
Probably the worse image was of Wilson in the goal square. But he isn’t alone in that department.
At times Acres, Tucker have disappointed, experienced AFL players.
Plenty of skill and pace, but can JLo create a home fortress that has teams feeling the pinch?

You make the 8 you need to beat other teams outside 8.

To make the top 4, you need to beat everybody outside the top 4.

To win the flag you need to beat top 4 teams.

 

[Bring back Drum]

I think he’s guiding this club (not team) very well.

 

[blue shark]

I think he’s guiding this club (not team) very well.

The team of coaches assembled, the fixing of our Achilles Heel, an actual club plan
all bodes well.
Having guys who have won flags and are experienced in coaching definitely helps.
It’s like chalk and cheese compared to Ross the Boss.
Ross started strong with excellent assistants, but by the end no one was buying his
Brand.

 

[Freomaniac]

I can't really see why TBH. If we start 2-8 or 3-7 next year it's going to be pretty clear that JL is not the man. But because of a decision made now, we're either stuck for another couple of years or we're up for a massive payout at a time when cash is hard to find.

Why not wait until next year? He's not getting poached, and we would then have an extra year to work out whether he can actually coach.

That's what i am worried. Of freo starts badly in 2022

 

[Fat Nyfe]

That's what i am worried. Of freo starts badly in 2022

I’m okay with the security. I can see the big picture of what JL is trying to do now with the club and culture shift, given he was so green going into the role, I like the influence he’s exerting at this point 2 years in. By taking him on you have to understand he was always going to make mistakes being so young, and fumble with the media, so dropping him out of impatience before he starts hitting a coaching prime would be silly. Also I think this forum is overrating our list and current capabilities, so if we do struggle naturally the pressure will fall on the coach and you don’t want that pressure in a contract year.

 

[blue shark]

I’m okay with the security. I can see the big picture of what JL is trying to do now with the club and culture shift, given he was so green going into the role, I like the influence he’s exerting at this point 2 years in. By taking him on you have to understand he was always going to make mistakes being so young, and fumble with the media, so dropping him out of impatience before he starts hitting a coaching prime would be silly. Also I think this forum is overrating our list and current capabilities, so if we do struggle naturally the pressure will fall on the coach and you don’t want that pressure in a contract year.

I really don’t think you can over rate a list with that much talent added over a 5-6 year period.
Sure we are young, but JLo hasn’t started like Drum, even Harvey and our assistants are certainly better.
Freo fans are always anxious at the start of the season.
My expectations are 8-10th on the ladder, with Optus being a fast wicket.
On a fast track I don’t see many teams keeping up.
Also I think we will start with the more experienced players but by the end of the
year some of the kids will not be denied.

 

[Boppo]

I’m going to predict that we lose 0 home games this year (assuming Optus is always available).

 

[theGav56]

The potential for a bad start is one of the reasons to get the contract extension done and dusted.

 

[Freomaniac]

Take out that 6 year period between 2010-2015.

And its 2 finals appearances from the other 21 years very grim.

Finished top 2 once in our history hard to win a flag from WA if you dont finish top 2. As the travel factor is an extra hurdle to overcome.

2012 i felt our brand stood up better then 2014/15 just ran out of juice against adelaide due to travelling b2b weeks and leaving our run too late by finishing 7th and missing out on home final week one

Agreed

 

[Freomaniac]

You let cobblers make shoes and candlemakers make candles. Having game plan x and making a team follow that when you don't have the required talent/skill is folly, your shoes aren't as good if you have the candle makers make them nor your candles if the cobblers make candles. Our flag tilt days, we didn't have the skill for the handball game, nor did we have pace on the wings, so given the list he had, Ross found the best advantage that he could use of the particular talents and that was high pressure helped by a much maligned master tagger. People just think of Ross as boring, scragging, low scoring, completely forgetting that he had his Saints team as one of the highest scoring teams (Just not on Grand Final days), he adjusted his game plan for Freo to suit the tools at hand.

Longmuir's team has a lot more natural talent in it that can do 5 handballs and have a chance, our flag tilt days we'd stuff up and turnover by handball #3 and so it was avoided where possible. But the critical weakness for Justin's team is the forward list, you'd want a teacup made out of bone china or other goods, though you can make a teacup out of lead, cheese, sticks, I suppose even dead chickens. No matter how good the teacup maker, you can only do so much to get past the limitations of the materials, he hasn't been given an adequate list of forwards for the task and that makes it harder for the mids and defenders, let alone for the poor forward line itself.

You asked about tackles, we have a few weeds that need a few years to bulk up trying to tackle much bigger and stronger opponents, our tackling will be poor by comparison as there is only so much that skill can do as there is physics involved as well (mass, inertia etc). Longmuir would no doubt like more and more effective tackles, would give a licence to some to do it (Andy for example), but for Henry it would be trying to try and corral and force short kicks unless it's running down from behind in which case give it a go even though the odds are poor.

tldr A good coaches game plan needs to tilt in favour of player strengths/weaknesses, not making players accommodate coaching strengths.

A solid post.

Ross Lyon got the best out of limited squad. Yet didnt have high end picks in 2012-15 due to making finals.

Hell freos 1st rounders from 2007-13 wont be fondly looked backed on.

Justin Longmuir may be an inexperienced coach to a degree.

However, there is some exciting young talent coming through in all 3 areas of the ground and that says something.

When freo made finals in 2012-15, with the exception of Michael Apeness and a slowly developing taberner, we didnt have much young forwards, tall or small coming through. Mainly mids rotated in forward flanks.

 

[Freomaniac]

No in football terms it's very relevant. Eras are connected.

You could basically wipe 1995-2001 as a product of those turbulent set-up years.

So the next period starts from 2002 to 2008, defined by the Connolly/Schwab-era, which wasn't without success, but was also characterised by fast and loose trading every second year just about. They would justify this as they were trying to generate fast results as the club was in real peril of folding altogether in 2001 (as a result of the shaky set-up).

The next period was 2009-2011, which involved a rapid rebuild and with some luck and good decision making led to finals. It was also marred by injury and maybe too early success arguably not having solid enough foundations as a team to weather all storms (but hey, nothing's a given).

Rapidly then into 2012-2019, which was again prompted by an impatience for success, but led to our most successful period by some margin. The tectonic shocks at the beginning of this era, with Lyon's surprise poaching, raised the stakes of getting a premiership in that time, which maybe lead to some blinkers that obscured a good lay of the land in 2016.

So all through that history, you can see where the previous era set the tone for the decision making in the next. It often takes something significant to break that circuit.

In a league as demanding as the AFL, you need a lot to go right to sustain success. It's a pretty common phenomenon for clubs to spend years, if not decades in the wilderness. It happened to Hawthorn when they came in the comp. Sydney went through it for years, it took the HQ to step in and intervene, same with Brisbane now. Richmond and Collingwood, two powerhouse clubs at that point, sunk for years after their trade war back in the early 80's. They had the advantage of being "big" Melbourne clubs to find their way out. The WC were basically given a state side in their early years (and set themselves up as such in the wake of the SOO success), that sort of inheritance makes sustaining success a much easier task.

Essentially you can feed off a premiership for years/generations (footy wise). The WC were able to trade out players at a premium because they had the stamp of being premiership players. A premiership also gives you a greater capacity to go long term in planning. It's a whole bunch of stuff that comes from that.

The key though, in knowing that history, is to have a realistic and clear perspective on where you are right now and have an informed focus on what actions you do in the present, not to be swallowed by that past.

To get sustained success in the AFL it takes a total club approach, where each decision from all relevant staff and players is done with the question "is this decision/action going to aid the quest for a premiership or harm it?".

Solid post

 

[Freomaniac]

I’m okay with the security. I can see the big picture of what JL is trying to do now with the club and culture shift, given he was so green going into the role, I like the influence he’s exerting at this point 2 years in. By taking him on you have to understand he was always going to make mistakes being so young, and fumble with the media, so dropping him out of impatience before he starts hitting a coaching prime would be silly. Also I think this forum is overrating our list and current capabilities, so if we do struggle naturally the pressure will fall on the coach and you don’t want that pressure in a contract year.

I don't mind the extension. But i rather wait until the end of the season if freo made finals or get 9th or 10th with 11 or 12 wins. I understand that the board wanted to give him the extension early for stability.

As I said, i want Justin Longmuir to succeed. But define Success?

All of us want JLo to get us that elusive flag. I don't think he will get us to a flag, not that's a bad thing.

I have said this before. I predicted JLo will last around for 5-7 years.