Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[arsesmart]

That’s fair. Just seems like it comes down to those moments most weeks for us where as the swans etc have had plenty of big wins. When the game is always close it doesn’t take much for it not to go your way.

Happy to see how it all goes next year with another preseason into the younger players. I’m hoping that’s all it is and it’s really not a system based issue.

Yes. Really need to break that pattern of almost and nearly. Especially at the end of a game. How good would it be to just have an opposition team all but put away at 3/4 time?

 

[Fat Nyfe]

The point is, if we match them for intensity all game, we're probably 3 goals up at that point.

We're leaving teams in it because we can't play 4 quarters.

3 goals up wouldn't have made a difference from what I've seen from this team under JL. We would coast for the rest of the quarter and wait for the 2 minute drill at the end to win or lose it.

It's like unless we're 5+ goals up or down either way, we go into this weird holding pattern and play for the close game scenario at the end, meanwhile the other team wrenches the game from us.

 

[arsesmart]

Blaming the coach is an easy out & gets the players off the hook.
That Essendon game, Darcy on one leg had us in the game & if he was fit we would have won. But what was the alternative? Reidy?
Did you watch him yesterday, surely you can see why Darcy is so important to us with the other options available in at their current development level.
The midfield was good enough to stop that but it was a mindset thing as much as an execution. How does a coach control that in that moment?
A lot on here think that coaches have some sort of super power. The coaching gets us in positions to win games, the players need to be backed in to carry it out. Our players can’t do that yet, they haven’t been exposed to it enough.
Our tactics are fine, we are in all games. Blaming the coach for players lack of execution when they would train it regularly is just bizarre.

The two things that would put him on thin ice for me is how long they just left Banfield to flounder at the level and going with the dud tactic of playing Walters as sub. Just head banging into the wall stuff.

 

[Outshined]

we failed to execute.

This summarises a fair chunk of the season.

I don't think the effort can be questioned and we only really had 2 outright bad games. When things came down to the wire though, we made basic errors or failed to capitalise on positions of strength far more often than not.

It does reflect the fact we do have a very young squad which was also missing key players at the worst possible part of the season. It is also a persistent series of failures that the coaches couldn't find a solution to.

 

[dont bowl there]

3 goals up wouldn't have made a difference from what I've seen from this team under JL. We would coast for the rest of the quarter and wait for the 2 minute drill at the end to win or lose it.

It's like unless we're 5+ goals up or down either way, we go into this weird holding pattern and play for the close game scenario at the end, meanwhile the other team wrenches the game from us.

When I get to games here in Melbourne I always lose it when they hold the anchor sign up on the bench. You can 100% lock in that we won’t score and most likely going into our shells the opposition will. Can we not just try and kick another goal to end the quarter rather than hope the scores remain the same?

 

[Joao]

3 goals up wouldn't have made a difference from what I've seen from this team under JL. We would coast for the rest of the quarter and wait for the 2 minute drill at the end to win or lose it.

It's like unless we're 5+ goals up or down either way, we go into this weird holding pattern and play for the close game scenario at the end, meanwhile the other team wrenches the game from us.

Yes, there are two clear issues (that are related anyway) and both need to be fixed.

 

[arsesmart]

When I get to games here in Melbourne I always lose it when they hold the anchor sign up on the bench. You can 100% lock in that we won’t score and most likely going into our shells the opposition will. Can we not just try and kick another goal to end the quarter rather than hope the scores remain the same?

This is it. Kicking a goal should be a cue for being even more attacking. If for nothing else but to reinforce a dog-hungry mindset, rather than "we can't afford to make a mistake" one.

 

[Rob]

Hang on, so our game style gets us in games, in a winnable position to the point where we are are in front late in the last quarter in most of them & your saying it’s the coaches fault we can’t finish off??

The method you mention gets to that point that is taught by the coaches & the players can’t finish it off. That’s on the players not the coach.

There’s no doubt a lot of the preseason will trained on those end scenarios so the players don’t shit the bed. If we haven’t done enough of this, then that’s on the coaches, but really that is just executing under pressure which is hard to replicate at training.

You aren't understanding why we're losing these games. It's not a coincidence and it's too easy and convenient to say "it's the players not executing".

The problem is the game style the players have been taught to play. We are a possession at almost all costs team - when we get the ball at a stoppage we are trained to find an open clearance by passing the ball around until it becomes available. Use hands and run to put it in the most simple of terms. This results in 4 5, 6 sometimes more handballs around in the pursuit of a clean kick out of the stoppage. All sounds good on paper, but it simply fails when the pressure gets turned up which (strangely enough) happens late in games when it's close.

Other teams - better teams than us - don't do this as often as we do. They might have 1 handball out of the pack but they then get the ball forward to 1 on 1s where the defence isn't as set up. Less possession in close = less opportunity to turn the ball over = less time for the opposition to get their defence set up.

Now if you think it's the players fault for messing it up then your expectations of players are simply too high. Our skills would need to be 20% better than any other team in the league to pull this off. Sure, that's possible, and we can all celebrate the glory of our first flag if that happens. But is that realistic? Sticking with JL means you think it is.

 

[arsesmart]

You aren't understanding why we're losing these games. It's not a coincidence and it's too easy and convenient to say "it's the players not executing".

The problem is the game style the players have been taught to play. We are a possession at almost all costs team - when we get the ball at a stoppage we are trained to find an open clearance by passing the ball around until it becomes available. Use hands and run to put it in the most simple of terms. This results in 4 5, 6 sometimes more handballs around in the pursuit of a clean kick out of the stoppage. All sounds good on paper, but it simply fails when the pressure gets turned up which (strangely enough) happens late in games when it's close.

Other teams - better teams than us - don't do this as often as we do. They might have 1 handball out of the pack but they then get the ball forward to 1 on 1s where the defence isn't as set up. Less possession in close = less opportunity to turn the ball over = less time for the opposition to get their defence set up.

Now if you think it's the players fault for messing it up then your expectations of players are simply too high. Our skills would need to be 20% better than any other team in the league to pull this off. Sure, that's possible, and we can all celebrate the glory of our first flag if that happens. But is that realistic? Sticking with JL means you think it is.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

JLo referred to natural progression with the team. I'm not sure that is a given, there has to be a desire to improve for that to occur. For mine, the team had an excellent opportunity to play finals and they choked it away, so I question whether the team does in fact want success. They say they do, but talk is cheap.

If the team does want success, then they should come back from the off-season holidays earlier and start training. It's what the Hawks did during their period of success.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

You aren't understanding why we're losing these games. It's not a coincidence and it's too easy and convenient to say "it's the players not executing".

The problem is the game style the players have been taught to play. We are a possession at almost all costs team - when we get the ball at a stoppage we are trained to find an open clearance by passing the ball around until it becomes available. Use hands and run to put it in the most simple of terms. This results in 4 5, 6 sometimes more handballs around in the pursuit of a clean kick out of the stoppage. All sounds good on paper, but it simply fails when the pressure gets turned up which (strangely enough) happens late in games when it's close.

Other teams - better teams than us - don't do this as often as we do. They might have 1 handball out of the pack but they then get the ball forward to 1 on 1s where the defence isn't as set up. Less possession in close = less opportunity to turn the ball over = less time for the opposition to get their defence set up.

Now if you think it's the players fault for messing it up then your expectations of players are simply too high. Our skills would need to be 20% better than any other team in the league to pull this off. Sure, that's possible, and we can all celebrate the glory of our first flag if that happens. But is that realistic? Sticking with JL means you think it is.

Why would our skills need to be 20% better if we’re kicking it less?
You need to understand the difference between decision making & execution.
We had numerous opportunities to score in the last 40 minutes & our decision making was poor when we got forward of centre as was the execution a lot of time.
Port hadn’t set up at all & there were 1v1’s constantly. This group is not ready yet, we had our 3 tall forwards all in the under 22 AA team & 1 wasn’t playing.
You can keep blaming the coaches as much as you like but this list still has holes in it & still isn’t ready.
You can kick it quickly to our young forwards 1v1 but without at least 1 quality small, a Bolton type, it will bounce out just as quick as it was yesterday. Switta is a 2nd small forward & he’s trying to play the main role which he can’t do.
We tried the kick mark game style & it didn’t work & we kept turning it over. You don’t win flags by playing like everyone else, Richmond certainly didn’t.

 

[SPEEDWAGON]

so in essence, we are failing to execute a flawed strategy as it is impossible to achieve under high pressure.

do we revert to this strategy as we dont have the firepower in front of the ball to just kick it forward? Eg the front 6 cant win contests. Without Tracey, id agree with this.




how i see it,

PORT and GEELONG play a spare behind the ball

FREO play the extra at the ball, so we are trying to use the extra player to chain possession to not kick the ball to an outnumbered situation.

the other factor, for whatever reason, since treacy went off the field injured our ability to win contest ahead of the ball has diminished. knock on factor of amiss and jackson on better defenders?

 

[Timmytime]

For the people saying the pressure was good, this was in the third directly after a team talk when the season was literally on the line. Worrying to say the least.

By the way, wasn't able to get to the last game with work commitments - was actually quite nice to listen to the commentary for once. I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pav ask to see more changes particularly in the midfield. Schofield said some big things too, "freo haven't stood up in these games all year".

 

[Rob]

Why would our skills need to be 20% better if we’re kicking it less?
You need to understand the difference between decision making & execution.
We had numerous opportunities to score in the last 40 minutes & our decision making was poor when we got forward of centre as was the execution a lot of time.
Port hadn’t set up at all & there were 1v1’s constantly. This group is not ready yet, we had our 3 tall forwards all in the under 22 AA team & 1 wasn’t playing.
You can keep blaming the coaches as much as you like but this list still has holes in it & still isn’t ready.
You can kick it quickly to our young forwards 1v1 but without at least 1 quality small, a Bolton type, it will bounce out just as quick as it was yesterday. Switta is a 2nd small forward & he’s trying to play the main role which he can’t do.
We tried the kick mark game style & it didn’t work & we kept turning it over. You don’t win flags by playing like everyone else, Richmond certainly didn’t.

What you see as poor decision making I see as following a flawed game plan.

What you see is players not executing because of us being in games and then capitulating late I see a game style that does not stand up to pressure when the stakes are high.

Look, if we stick with JL for season 2025 then I hope you're right, I really do. Because the warning signs were there even back when we made finals and he's seemingly changed very little since then. So I wouldn't expect much change to the way we play next year either.

 

[dont bowl there]

View attachment 2092301
For the people saying the pressure was good, this was in the third directly after a team talk when the season was literally on the line. Worrying to say the least.

By the way, wasn't able to get to the last game with work commitments - was actually quite nice to listen to the commentary for once. I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pav ask to see more changes particularly in the midfield. Schofield said some big things too, "freo haven't stood up in these games all year".

Thank you! I thought I was going crazy when people were saying the effort over the game was fine.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

What you see as poor decision making I see as following a flawed game plan.

What you see is players not executing because of us being in games and then capitulating late I see a game style that does not stand up to pressure when the stakes are high.

Look, if we stick with JL for season 2025 then I hope you're right, I really do. Because the warning signs were there even back when we made finals and he's seemingly changed very little since then. So I wouldn't expect much change to the way we play next year either.

So they can execute early in games but then it becomes flawed later? Of course it’s pressure, but I don’t see this group executing any game plan under pressure yet, they don’t & haven’t been exposed enough.

These are good teams we’re playing, more experienced teams who have done it all before regularly.

We’re not as good as people think we are, yet.

As I’ve said before, who is available coach wise that is going to make us better?
Are you going to bring in an unknown with the hope of doing something different or supposedly better?
If you can come up with a viable available option everyone would be all over it.

 

[malpaso]

What you see as poor decision making I see as following a flawed game plan.

What you see is players not executing because of us being in games and then capitulating late I see a game style that does not stand up to pressure when the stakes are high.

Look, if we stick with JL for season 2025 then I hope you're right, I really do. Because the warning signs were there even back when we made finals and he's seemingly changed very little since then. So I wouldn't expect much change to the way we play next year either.

Yeah see I disagree, what I see is players failing to execute handballs, falling over, double/triple attempts to get the ball and choosing the wrong option.

 

[Midnite65]

Yeah see I disagree, what I see is players failing to execute handballs, falling over, double/triple attempts to get the ball and choosing the wrong option.

Exactly, our game plan allows us to get our hands on the ball and be one of the best contested and clearance teams in the league but we are let down by fumbles and not finding targets in the forward line.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

What you see as poor decision making I see as following a flawed game plan.

What you see is players not executing because of us being in games and then capitulating late I see a game style that does not stand up to pressure when the stakes are high.

Look, if we stick with JL for season 2025 then I hope you're right, I really do. Because the warning signs were there even back when we made finals and he's seemingly changed very little since then. So I wouldn't expect much change to the way we play next year either.

Counter to that I would say our lack of ground ball talent up front means we almost have to play the way JL has us playing. It's a bit chicken or egg I suppose but I just can't see anyone bar Treacy up front winning a 1v1 or ground ball. Amiss is too young, Jackson out of form and the smalls don't have the talent.

Adding Bolton could be huge in this regard. An actual ground ball threat. Adding preseasons into Treacy and Amiss will help a lot as well.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Additionally Rob the complete lack of forward pressure means it just comes back at us just as fast. I'm not 100% sold by the way, I can see the merit in your argument but I think there are reasons for this particular gamestyle.

 

[arsesmart]

View attachment 2092301
For the people saying the pressure was good, this was in the third directly after a team talk when the season was literally on the line. Worrying to say the least.

By the way, wasn't able to get to the last game with work commitments - was actually quite nice to listen to the commentary for once. I was pleasantly surprised to hear Pav ask to see more changes particularly in the midfield. Schofield said some big things too, "freo haven't stood up in these games all year".

My trust in that "pressure gauge" is very low. There's no transparency regarding the metrics they use. It also seems a bit descriptive. They also flashed it up at others times in the game where our rating notched up at "Elite". Plus the season was on the line the whole game, not just the third.

 

[Timmytime]

My trust in that "pressure gauge" is very low. There's no transparency regarding the metrics they use. It also seems a bit descriptive. They also flashed it upat others times and we had an "Elite" rating. Plus the season was on the line the whole game, not just the third.

Yes I tend to agree and use it as a guide more than anything. I'm at the games normally so don't usually have access to seeing it. As a high-performance hockey coach myself, halftime talks are the most effective time to adapt, lead, and action change. That is why it's more worrying for me. This was right after the chance to reset and communicate.

 

[Rob]

Counter to that I would say our lack of ground ball talent up front means we almost have to play the way JL has us playing. It's a bit chicken or egg I suppose but I just can't see anyone bar Treacy up front winning a 1v1 or ground ball. Amiss is too young, Jackson out of form and the smalls don't have the talent.

Adding Bolton could be huge in this regard. An actual ground ball threat. Adding preseasons into Treacy and Amiss will help a lot as well.

No doubt - our list should be better in 2025 regardless of whether we get Bolton (which should be priority number one IMO), and with that should come improvement. If Amiss, Treacy and Jackson can become A graders up forward then that's a pretty imposing prospect. But something has to change in our playing style to capitalise on that.

 

[Ripper]

I’m starting to get flashbacks of Drummies famous 3/4 time motivational speeches

 

[Midnite65]

I’m starting to get flashbacks of Drummies famous 3/4 time motivational speeches

Did you hear them?