Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

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why is Walters still getting a game? He’s one of all our favourites ever, but right now he’s so far off the pace it’s shocking. The end has come quickly and brutally for him and he cannot continue to play at this level. It’s not an over reaction. It’s 6 or 7 weeks of being a complete passenger as a 33 year old.
I cannot believe how slow and fumbly he looks out there. Anyone, literally anyone would be more effective right now. Don’t want to hear that there no one else at peel.

There was a moment late in the game where he had a one on one near the touch line where the old Walters would have swept up the ball in a single touch with Velcro hands and kicked inside 50 to a leading target, but instead he was running in slow motion, fumbled 3 times and a boundary throw in ensued.
Father Time is undefeated and he’s definitely caught up with Sonny, and I don’t want his legacy tarnished while continuing to play like this.
A mate who’s a Carlton fan and doesn’t watch us too often messaged and said WTF are you guys doing with Walters out there still, he’s like a player that should be playing in an EJ Whitten legends match, and I couldn’t really argue with that.

If any of the JL fans want to respond here and defend his decision to keep selecting him - I’m all ears. Go right ahead.
You need to balance your views of the coach as there’s not many if any who think he is doing a perfect job. There’s a lot he’s doing right & bit I’d like to change, but having either played, coached or been on committees at footy clubs for 49 years without a year off, you realise that it’s a tough gig coaching at any level & you can’t please everyone.

How do you know JL hasn’t asked for Walters to be rested? It’s a selection committee not just the coach who select the team. Because of the young nature of our forward half, I’d suggest he is in mainly for leadership & experience at the moment, but his output would have to make them question whether he is still a viable option.

Walters is pretty important to the group & dropping him is not as easy as you think it might be.
 
It's getting harder and harder to see how JL can last as coach. The gameplan is so highly flawed when the opposition turns the pressure up and it hasn't really changed. If we scrape into finals we're going to get shown up.

The thing is we have the talent, and may well win next week. We can beat good sides purely on that basis when they don't respect us. But if a team comes to play against us, even a bad team, our game crumbles. We simply overpossess the ball way too much.
 

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Ok I just watched the Purple Reign interview with Andy and Caleb. I challenge even the most negative nellys on here to watch that and not get at least a little bit excited about what is building with this club.
Come on what do you expect Caleb and Andy to say?
They are always going to say the right cliches in a post game interview. I’m not saying anything they said is wrong but those kind of club-sponsored puff pieces aren’t much evidence of anything.

For instance I heard Andy saying tonight “I’m happy to go to the flanks when we need it to let Switta loose in the midfield”. That particular comment was interesting because I recently happened to sit beside an immediate family member of Andy at the north Melbourne game and a few times andy was on the wing at centre bounces during that match. This person said to me “I hate seeing him positioned out there. He should be in the centre square it’s where he is best, thats where he wants to be too”

Now of course he does. What elite midfielder wants to be relegated to the wing or HFF when a game is on the line in the final quarter? Of course Andy is far too well coached by the media to ever hint at that in an interview with Duck and Oz of all people.

For what it’s worth I thought it was a great move by JL to bring Switta into the middle late on tonight and he’s far more impactful as a small midfielder than as a small forward. It was Swittas best game of a pretty average season for him so far.
 
Last year, that level of
Pressure against us results in a 10
Goal loss.

I’m all for Walter’s being dropped, have been for weeks. And I’m yet to see who comes in to replace him.

It’s not stubbornness or
Conservatism. It’s lack of options.

They still had 15 premiership players in that side. They moved the ball
Through those hardened, senior players.
 
It's getting harder and harder to see how JL can last as coach. The gameplan is so highly flawed when the opposition turns the pressure up and it hasn't really changed. If we scrape into finals we're going to get shown up.

The thing is we have the talent, and may well win next week. We can beat good sides purely on that basis when they don't respect us. But if a team comes to play against us, even a bad team, our game crumbles. We simply overpossess the ball way too much.
It’s the handballs to static guys that really get me worked up. Jackson did it twice in Q1 to a stationary Hayden Young who was immediately pounced on by the pies players. On both occasions jackson could have kicked i50 himself but didn’t.

Not a fan of the overhandballing in general, but **** me at least give them to guys on the move.

One of the issues is that it looks incredible against weak teams that don’t apply enough pressure. One thing is so obvious - you cannot handball your way though an elite AFL pressure side. We saw this last night and two weeks ago v Sydney.
Beau Mccreery, the prototypical modern pressure half forward looked amazing last night tackling and intercepting so many of our handball chains. Every finals side will have a few Mccreerys, working like animals to pressure and harass the opposition.
 
It’s the handballs to static guys that really get me worked up. Jackson did it twice in Q1 to a stationary Hayden Young who was immediately pounced on by the pies players. On both occasions jackson could have kicked i50 himself but didn’t.

Not a fan of the overhandballing in general, but heck me at least give them to guys on the move.

One of the issues is that it looks incredible against weak teams that don’t apply enough pressure. One thing is so obvious - you cannot handball your way though an elite AFL pressure side. We saw this last night and two weeks ago v Sydney.
Beau Mccreery, the prototypical modern pressure half forward looked amazing last night tackling and intercepting so many of our handball chains. Every finals side will have a few Mccreerys, working like animals to pressure and harass the opposition.
Yeah that's pretty much it.

The other time it really pisses me off is at centre bounces with the 6-6-6 in place. No other team ****s around with the ball then, they just get it up there before the opposition have time to set up behind the ball.
Not us though.
 
Yeah that's pretty much it.

The other time it really pisses me off is at centre bounces with the 6-6-6 in place. No other team hecks around with the ball then, they just get it up there before the opposition have time to set up behind the ball.
Not us though.
Yeah exactly. The 6-6-6 was designed to grab the ball out of the centre square and throw it on the boot i50 as quickly as possible. Give your forwards six genuine one on ones and let them fight for it.

Watch the likes of Degoey and Crisp when they are in that situation. They Take ground in any way shape or form. Worry about the aesthetics later.
Dimma literally won 3 flags in that manner - cotchin and Edwards and these guys often didn’t even take possession just punched and hacked it forward any way at all.
It’s a simple game at times. Dimma is considered some kind of visionary genius for simply taking territory and getting his guys to fight and scrap for everything.
 
Come on what do you expect Caleb and Andy to say?
They are always going to say the right cliches in a post game interview. I’m not saying anything they said is wrong but those kind of club-sponsored puff pieces aren’t much evidence of anything.

For instance I heard Andy saying tonight “I’m happy to go to the flanks when we need it to let Switta loose in the midfield”. That particular comment was interesting because I recently happened to sit beside an immediate family member of Andy at the north Melbourne game and a few times andy was on the wing at centre bounces during that match. This person said to me “I hate seeing him positioned out there. He should be in the centre square it’s where he is best, thats where he wants to be too”

Now of course he does. What elite midfielder wants to be relegated to the wing or HFF when a game is on the line in the final quarter? Of course Andy is far too well coached by the media to ever hint at that in an interview with Duck and Oz of all people.

For what it’s worth I thought it was a great move by JL to bring Switta into the middle late on tonight and he’s far more impactful as a small midfielder than as a small forward. It was Swittas best game of a pretty average season for him so far.

I can understand the difference between cliched media trained responses and actual substance. I thought Caleb and Andy gave some good insight and spoke with a high level of passion and conviction that is much harder to fake for a media interview.

Granted that Andy probably was pissed to make way for Switta to go into the middle but decided not to say that publicly. That doesn’t mean everything else he said was bullshit.
 
You need to balance your views of the coach as there’s not many if any who think he is doing a perfect job. There’s a lot he’s doing right & bit I’d like to change, but having either played, coached or been on committees at footy clubs for 49 years without a year off, you realise that it’s a tough gig coaching at any level & you can’t please everyone.

How do you know JL hasn’t asked for Walters to be rested? It’s a selection committee not just the coach who select the team. Because of the young nature of our forward half, I’d suggest he is in mainly for leadership & experience at the moment, but his output would have to make them question whether he is still a viable option.

Walters is pretty important to the group & dropping him is not as easy as you think it might be.
Hmmm I think you just want to disagree with me for the sake of it.
Here is your comment on the game autopsy thread. I couldn’t agree more with your opinion on the continued selection of Walters. 😉

I’m a pretty positive person when it comes to the players. But in intense games we cannot afford to carry Walters & the speed of the game has gone past Nat Fyfe in big games.
Delean could get 10 touches & no goals & Brodie has Fyfe covered. Defence can no longer hold Brodie back from getting a game when Fyfe no longer has a massive offensive game to hide his defensive deficiencies.
Didn’t deserve 2 points so take them & that free to Darcy is going to be a massive talking point.
 
Hmmm I think you just want to disagree with me for the sake of it.
Here is your comment on the game autopsy thread. I couldn’t agree more with your opinion on the continued selection of Walters. 😉

I’m a pretty positive person when it comes to the players. But in intense games we cannot afford to carry Walters & the speed of the game has gone past Nat Fyfe in big games.
Delean could get 10 touches & no goals & Brodie has Fyfe covered. Defence can no longer hold Brodie back from getting a game when Fyfe no longer has a massive offensive game to hide his defensive deficiencies.
Didn’t deserve 2 points so take them & that free to Darcy is going to be a massive talking point.
Not sure where I said he shouldn’t be dropped or rested in my response to you & I said they would be questioning whether he was a viable option. My point was more you claiming we all think JL is perfect & you requesting a response from ‘JL fans’

You are far too one sided with your criticism of the coach.
 
The premiership coach with the longest lead time until premiership I can think of was Damien Hardwick, and even he got Richmond into finals on the regular from his fourth year onwards. If Longmuir can’t make finals this year what hope does he have?
 

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Brayshaw spoke post game and mentioned that they have that scoring mode to switch into, but it’s not sustainable because it’s so intense. Serong threw up multiple times in the last quarter because of it.

Obviously there is more to it than just simply moving the ball quicker
Definitely, but it’s pretty much the style of play that won Collingwood a premiership. You need some gears, I’m just saying that if that was 5th gear, we don’t really ever use 4th gear. You can afford to sit in 2nd gear for awhile if you have scoreboard pressure on the opposition. What we fundamentally lack against good sides is the ability to apply scoreboard pressure, which generally comes from attacking bursts.
 
So you would sack the coach if we are 6-6 at the bye? That won’t get us anywhere, need to have patience.
Would I sack Justin Longmuir this season if Freo have 6 wins and 6 losses after the bye ? nope. I am not expecting freo to do a 2006 and win every game in the 2nd half of the season and storm into top 4.

Carlton in 2023 at one point had 4 wins, 8 losses and 1 draw after 13 games. Most teams dont make finals in that position, let alone end up winning a final.

Carlton somehow finished the 2023 regualr season at 5th with 13 wins, 9 losses and a draw. Carlton won 2 finals in 2023.
 
The problem is his main avenue to goal appears to be roving packs 25 m or so out, from say, a boundary throw in inside 50 or some kind of F50 stoppage. That’s not a sustainable manner for a player of his physical attributes to kick a lot of goals. The goal he kicked in that final v the dogs comes to mind in 2022 as one he did get but it’s kinda rare. He’s gotten a few of these over the years but they are generally low percentage chances because there is often a couple of opposing players hanging out of him when he takes the shots and it’s easier smother his shots compared to the likes of Petracca because he’s a smaller man. That’s probably why he has so many behinds too.

It’s a case of see ball, grab ball, throw it on the boot in the general direction of the stocks and hope for the best. The last minute this year v port when he had that shot to win it was another example but that was a behind.

As Alfonz described well above, he’s doesn’t have the attributes to be a sustainable goal kicking mid. He’s brilliant at lots of other things you want from a premium mid but needs help on the goal kicking front from others in the midfield.

good point. Remember back in 2012 Chris Mayne had that crazy season when he was super accurate? 39 goals and 7 behinds he kicked in 2012.

He was very good in 2013. 37 goals and 12 behinds.
 
We'll finish in the 8 at the end of this round.

That's all with having a pretty average season so far. It'll be an interesting end to the season. It could go very badly but also there's still a chance we kick straight and find more consistency.
Melbourne will probably beat st kilda so we fall to 9th if they do
 
I said before the we re-signed JLo that if we got to the bye at 6-6 and still in touch with the top 8 we’d likely extend his contract, we’re ahead of that at 6-1-4 with a game to play, if we win next week we’re definitely in the 8 so job done at this stage. Think it’s important to remember we’ve done this with Cox and Darcy mostly out of the team, there’s a real opportunity to push higher up the ladder in the second half of the season.
 
The premiership coach with the longest lead time until premiership I can think of was Damien Hardwick, and even he got Richmond into finals on the regular from his fourth year onwards. If Longmuir can’t make finals this year what hope does he have?

Hardwick made finals in his 4th, 5th and 6th year before missing in his 7th (2016). However he played three finals in those years before 2016 and lost all 3 of them. In two of those games, his team was the higher team on the ladder (5th plays 8th). If we make finals this year, JL will have played the same amount of finals as Hardwick with one less year. Even if we don’t make finals this year, we’ve already won more finals under JL than Hardwick did in his first 7 years
 
Hardwick made finals in his 4th, 5th and 6th year before missing in his 7th (2016). However he played three finals in those years before 2016 and lost all 3 of them. In two of those games, his team was the higher team on the ladder (5th plays 8th). If we make finals this year, JL will have played the same amount of finals as Hardwick with one less year. Even if we don’t make finals this year, we’ve already won more finals under JL than Hardwick did in his first 7 years

Don't let the truth get in the way of a pitchfork.
There's a few with agendas here, so keep the personality out of it, and just look at results.
Above me is the direct comparison to Hardwick, now acknowledged as one of the great modern day coaches
 
I think that they should bring in Ras over Walter’s, at least we will get a contest and development at afl level.

Better chance to take a mark and kick a goal also.

That said, I think we have made a clear step forward from last year.

I doubt JL wants the team messing around with it, it’s more about balance. We absolutely go fast and long if we can, particularly when our half backs get hold of it or Young.

To have so many players play so poorly and still get a result against the pies, don’t see it a week to knock JL.

If anything we need to focus on list management losing Shooter, would make a massive difference having him over Emmett. Probably get over the line in the port, gravy poos, and pies games.
 
Hardwick made finals in his 4th, 5th and 6th year before missing in his 7th (2016). However he played three finals in those years before 2016 and lost all 3 of them. In two of those games, his team was the higher team on the ladder (5th plays 8th). If we make finals this year, JL will have played the same amount of finals as Hardwick with one less year. Even if we don’t make finals this year, we’ve already won more finals under JL than Hardwick did in his first 7 years
Honestly think the poster you're replying to forgot 2022. Honest mistake. It's easy to have your memory clouded by all the hate-fog in here sometimes. I think he also might be unaware about JL's contract extension.

Kind of expecting an 'oops sorry - my bad - forgot about 2022' post shortly.

Weird some of our own supporters so blindly want JL to fail though. It's like they don't understand that if JL goes badly, so do Freo. They're effectively death-riding their own club. Bizzare.
 
I think that they should bring in Ras over Walter’s, at least we will get a contest and development at afl level.

Better chance to take a mark and kick a goal also.

That said, I think we have made a clear step forward from last year.

I doubt JL wants the team messing around with it, it’s more about balance. We absolutely go fast and long if we can, particularly when our half backs get hold of it or Young.

To have so many players play so poorly and still get a result against the pies, don’t see it a week to knock JL.

If anything we need to focus on list management losing Shooter, would make a massive difference having him over Emmett. Probably get over the line in the port, gravy poos, and pies games.
I’m tipping a Sonny rebound in Alice this weekend
Reckon he will embrace the occasion

I can’t see him being dropped , more likely Emmet
 

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