Kalgoorlie Racism (government endorsed)

JackOutback

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What if I saw your house as fair game?

It wouldn't destroy anything and the windows can be cleaned.
Then you would be wrong, and I would clean my windows.

Protest is part of a robust democracy, Aboriginal people have real grievances, Parliament House is a valid target for political protest. I'm willing to give a little more leeway than someone throwing paint at my house.

A lot of people would have shit their pants watching people protest in the '60s.
 

strung_out7

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Then you would be wrong, and I would clean my windows.

Protest is part of a robust democracy, Aboriginal people have real grievances, Parliament House is a valid target for political protest. I'm willing to give a little more leeway than someone throwing paint at my house.

A lot of people would have shit their pants watching people protest in the '60s.
So if the white community protested and vandalised Parliament House when the aboriginal killed an innocent man with a cricket bat, you would be ok with this?
 

quotemokc

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Then you would be wrong, and I would clean my windows.

Protest is part of a robust democracy, Aboriginal people have real grievances, Parliament House is a valid target for political protest. I'm willing to give a little more leeway than someone throwing paint at my house.

A lot of people would have shit their pants watching people protest in the '60s.
If I am wrong then the protesters that vandalised the windows are also in the wrong.

Treat everyone equally I say.
 

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JackOutback

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So if the white community protested and vandalised Parliament House when the aboriginal killed an innocent man with a cricket bat, you would be ok with this?
Terrible analogy on all fronts. It's on the very low scale of 'vandalism' and the Elijah Doughty case is still controversial. Yes, he stole a motorbike, some people think that chasing him in a 4x4 was hardly a commensurate response. We don't give the death penalty for stealing any more.
 

JackOutback

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If I am wrong then the protesters that vandalised the windows are also in the wrong.

Treat everyone equally I say.
I was saying a private house is different from Parliament House, so you seeing it as fair game is not comparable. In a robust democracy, we can handle robust debate.

And it's always easier to say 'treat everyone equally' when you already are being treated that way. Harder when you're not.
 

strung_out7

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Terrible analogy on all fronts. It's on the very low scale of 'vandalism' and the Elijah Doughty case is still controversial. Yes, he stole a motorbike, some people think that chasing him in a 4x4 was hardly a commensurate response. We don't give the death penalty for stealing any more.
Why? It's just role reversal. The killer got a relatively low sentence in this case
 

quotemokc

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I was saying a private house is different from Parliament House, so you seeing it as fair game is not comparable. In a robust democracy, we can handle robust debate.

And it's always easier to say 'treat everyone equally' when you already are being treated that way. Harder when you're not.
My taxes are going to pay for the removal of that paint so I would like to see the perpetrator punished.

Robust debate is all well and good but vandalism is not robust debate.

I am treated equally because if I vandalised your house I would be arrested, the only people being treated unequally are the ones getting away with a crime.
 

JackOutback

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People like to bang on about freedom of speech but we are constantly stifling genuine political protest. We require permits, they send as many cops as protesters to shadow them, we complain about the traffic or cost implications. I'll always accommodate genuine protest and will wear a few handprints on windows to ensure a genuine minority viewpoint is heard.
 

strung_out7

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People like to bang on about freedom of speech but we are constantly stifling genuine political protest. We require permits, they send as many cops as protesters to shadow them, we complain about the traffic or cost implications. I'll always accommodate genuine protest and will wear a few handprints on windows to ensure a genuine minority viewpoint is heard.
And what exactly are they protesting?
 

Freo Big Fella

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See it at Woollies everytime I'm down doing some shopping but I reckon the worst I've seen is out the front of the Wizard Chemist on Hannan St. If I'm going to Coles / K-Mart, I never park underneath, always straight up to the roof.
That K-Mart carpark is probably the only place I'd actively steer clear of - have witnessed some fairly nasty stuff going on as I've walked past previously.

Woolies have to wear a fair bit of the blame for what goes on: I've seen people stagger into BWS, pay for a blue box with a double handful of change, stagger back out to the kerb, all without staff batting an eyelid. Seems to have tapered off since they were forced to bring in security though.
 

quotemokc

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Aren't you making assumptions about the group, of which you have no knowledge other than what you have read in the media?
It is not unreasonable for me to take what the media have said as fact since they have quotes, pictures and facts* of the event.

Neither of which they had when they were creating a narrative about the court case and sentencing. They only facts that had about the case was the result.
 

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Kram

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Early 90s before even lunch time you see them all passed out on the grassed median strip between Woolies and Coles nicknamed 'Skinny Park'. Shoppers would just stroll past like it was nothing.
 

Ratts of Tobruk

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Terrible analogy on all fronts. It's on the very low scale of 'vandalism' and the Elijah Doughty case is still controversial. Yes, he stole a motorbike, some people think that chasing him in a 4x4 was hardly a commensurate response. We don't give the death penalty for stealing any more.
He didn't just chase him down. Apparently he took the day off work, went and waited at an area where the cops apparently told him bikes were 'dumped' and then sped after Elijah. The perpetrator said he tried to force him into the scrub. Elijah stayed on the track and was hit by the 4WD.

It's hard to see how he got such a lenient sentence, but his clean record was presumably major. You can understand the anger, though, considering the cops role in directing him down there (allegedly) and not respecting the crime scene - even though they knew before getting there what had happened. They drove over the tracks, so it became solely about his story matching the only evidence: CCTV footage of him going past at 67KM/H, and the crushed bike and body.
 

quotemokc

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He didn't just chase him down. Apparently he took the day off work, went and waited at an area where the cops apparently told him bikes were 'dumped' and then sped after Elijah. The perpetrator said he tried to force him into the scrub. Elijah stayed on the track and was hit by the 4WD.

It's hard to see how he got such a lenient sentence, but his clean record was presumably major. You can understand the anger, though, considering the cops role in directing him down there (allegedly) and not respecting the crime scene - even though they knew before getting there what had happened. They drove over the tracks, so it became solely about his story matching the only evidence: CCTV footage of him going past at 67KM/H, and the crushed bike and body.
Do you have a source for this?
 

Kram

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/kalgoorlie-teen-elijah-doughty-death-trial-day-two/8720306

In a video interview with police played to the Supreme Court on Tuesday, the man said that on the previous day when he reported the theft to police, they told him to go to the area because it was a dumping ground for motorbikes.

He did so the next day, but in the interview questioned whether that was "a good idea".

"I was told to go down there ... and I bet you're not going to question the police officer who told me that," he said.

"I'm not blaming them ... [but] in hindsight you have to look at the whole thing.

"I wish I wasn't told to go down there and look under the bushes."

The man also told police his wife had posted information about the bikes on a Kalgoorlie crime Facebook page and she had received messages from people telling her they could hear them in the bushes.
 

quotemokc

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/kalgoorlie-teen-elijah-doughty-death-trial-day-two/8720306

In a video interview with police played to the Supreme Court on Tuesday, the man said that on the previous day when he reported the theft to police, they told him to go to the area because it was a dumping ground for motorbikes.

He did so the next day, but in the interview questioned whether that was "a good idea".

"I was told to go down there ... and I bet you're not going to question the police officer who told me that," he said.

"I'm not blaming them ... [but] in hindsight you have to look at the whole thing.

"I wish I wasn't told to go down there and look under the bushes."

The man also told police his wife had posted information about the bikes on a Kalgoorlie crime Facebook page and she had received messages from people telling her they could hear them in the bushes.
"Apparently he took the day off work, went and waited at an area where the cops apparently told him bikes were 'dumped' and then sped after Elijah."

  • Day off work
  • Waited at an area
Not listed in what Tobruk said.

I don't dispute that he did what is said in that article, I do dispute the calculated aspect of that Tobruk is insinuating.
 

Illinois Nazi

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/kalgoorlie-teen-elijah-doughty-death-trial-day-two/8720306

In a video interview with police played to the Supreme Court on Tuesday, the man said that on the previous day when he reported the theft to police, they told him to go to the area because it was a dumping ground for motorbikes.

He did so the next day, but in the interview questioned whether that was "a good idea".

"I was told to go down there ... and I bet you're not going to question the police officer who told me that," he said.

"I'm not blaming them ... [but] in hindsight you have to look at the whole thing.

"I wish I wasn't told to go down there and look under the bushes."

The man also told police his wife had posted information about the bikes on a Kalgoorlie crime Facebook page and she had received messages from people telling her they could hear them in the bushes.
It's a bit of a stretch turning a cop saying "go down there and look under the bushes" from meaning "you might find your bike dumped there" to "chase the kid down and run him over".
 

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