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Kane Lucas

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The Falcon Strike said:
As opposed to a low grade undersized battler who has shown nought more than mediocre over 6 years.

The point was to highlight how ridiculous the first trade was by providing an equally ridiculous alternative
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In one of your earlier posts you were making out Mitch Brown as to how valvable he is yet he cannot get a game with your team, yet at the same time you are making out how useless Paul Bower is, classic case of supporters overvalving their own and having double standards on a equivalent player from another team.

Brown like Bower has been in the system for some time now and their valve would be fairly line ball.
 
The Falcon Strike said:
Disagree - he's a decent enough defensive 3rd tall - but he's not ever going to hold down key position.

He's in between sizes and athleticism to really be strategic as a key defender or the creative rebounding 3rd tall IMO.
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Played plenty of big games on Brown, Riewoldt etc. and is no smaller than another useless key back in Scarlett.
Anyway, I wasn't aware we were speaking about key backs here per se.
Bower at 2009 form would have complemented our back line beautifully this year, but not to be.
 
mac25 said:
In one of your earlier posts you were making out Mitch Brown as to how valvable he is yet he cannot get a game with your team, yet at the same time you are making out how useless Paul Bower is, classic case of supporters overvalving their own and having double standards on a equivalent player from another team.

Brown like Bower has been in the system for some time now and their valve would be fairly line ball.
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Brown's valuable to us - perhaps not to other clubs. And I never once commented on Bower's value to Carlton - it was Calrton supporters offering him up - not me.

Brown has the ability to be a key defender - right now he is stuck behind Eric Mackenzie and 3x All Australian defender in Darren Glass. He's not as good as either of those blokes.

he's also behind Will Schofield, who not a genuine key defender is extremely versatile in that he can play on eddie betts or the resting ruckman.

However Glass will retire soon and that leaves a massive gap - with only one genuine key defender in mackenzie and no back up plan - either mature or young.

I'm not trying to suggest talent wise Brown is as good or better than anyone on Carlton's list - i'm just saying he's extremely valuable to WC.

If Bower is so required at Carlton - he won't be on the trade table
 
HARKER said:
Lucas was showing quite a lot in his first year before his injury and if my memory serves me well, quite a bit more than Melksham, until his injury.

Lucas's first half of this year was terrible even at VFL level, but he slowly got back to the form he showed the year prior.

His injury has basically knocked his movement out of whack.
Let's judge him on a full, injury free season, to be fair.
Quality player.
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As you know Harker, I watch almost all of the Bullants' matches so I don't think there are many out there who can give a better indication of how Lucas has been this year. Lucas copped a hit to his knee early in the VFL season that stretched a ligament in his right knee. He missed a few matches and came back not quite right and it was obvious to all watching because he lacked power in his kicking and wasn't covering the ground as well. With the passing of time there was a huge improvement in the way his body moved and he showed that he was a class above the VFL. I had him in the Bullant's best two players in the four games leading into his call up to the Carlton team in round 24, where he put in another good performance. To those in thread who think he will replace Scotland, there is little chance of that. Lucas isn't soft, but I haven't seen him put his body on the line like Scotland does every week. To those in the thread writing him off, I'd love to know how often you've watched him this season. Based on watching him play for the Bullants and Carlton over the last two seasons, only injuries will stop him from being a 200 game player at AFL level.
 

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Teagueeee15 said:
As you know Harker, I watch almost all of the Bullants' matches so I don't think there are many out there who can give a better indication of how Lucas has been this year. Lucas copped a hit to his knee early in the VFL season that stretched a ligament in his right knee. He missed a few matches and came back not quite right and it was obvious to all watching because he lacked power in his kicking and wasn't covering the ground as well. With the passing of time there was a huge improvement in the way his body moved and he showed that he was a class above the VFL. I had him in the Bullant's best two players in the four games leading into his call up to the Carlton team in round 24, where he put in another good performance. To those in thread who think he will replace Scotland, there is little chance of that. Lucas isn't soft, but I haven't seen him put his body on the line like Scotland does every week. To those in the thread writing him off, I'd love to know how often you've watched him this season. Based on watching him play for the Bullants and Carlton over the last two seasons, only injuries will stop him from being a 200 game player at AFL level.
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Respect :thumbsu:

I didn't know about his knee, but rather the severe hamstring injury incurred in 2010.
I saw a couple of the Ants games live and then a few on the ABC and I just couldn't grasp it being the same player, as his movement was all out of sync.
I did though watch him in the pre-season early in the year, where he had a couple of brilliant training sessions followed by a couple of ordinary ones.

Many had Lucas rated at around the 6-8 mark in 2009 and with injury behind him, I can't see why he won't be the player you say.
 
The Falcon Strike said:
Draft position is irrelevant - that's like saying we wouldn't trade Brad Sheppard for Nathan Fyfe because we had the opportunity to draft him

In terms of what they have shown - both delivered something very similar in 2010 - certainly respective of the roles they play.

Lucas a few more touches reflecting the outside running, Stevens more tackles reflecting the inside grunt.

This year Lucas has been rocked with injuries, Stevens has been starring at WAFL level but struggled to break into a top 4 team.

If you think Lucas has shown more - good luck to you.

I agree the deal is unlikely to be done - and your focus maybe a key tall or retaining the run for when Simpsons, Scotland et al retire - but the talent is roughly equivalent.
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Seems a fair trade.

Works perfectly if both players are homesick.
 
Lucas for Stevens works in principle, but in reality we would want extra on top of Stevens (picks most likely). Draft position is one of those things I usually consider irrelevant but given that these kids were drafted 2 seasons ago, their positions on their respective lists is still based on the potential they showed then. Therefore the CFC probably still rates Lucas higher, as neither have shown form to indicate a significant change in position. Unless Lucas is homesick, we will be happy to keep him, so I don't anticipate we will trade him for anything but quality
 
BF Trade period summarised:

Your player is shit [insert reasons why, may or may not be accurate]. We'll give up [insert bottom 5 player on list and/or draft pick >35]
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So many shit players that are funnily enough desired by the poster calling them shit.
 
Sin City said:
There is no chance we would trade Lucas for Stevens. If we wanted Stevens we would've picked him, Lucas is a much better prospect and will be a better AFL player as good as Stevens is.
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That doesn't make a lot of sense. It is like saying, if we wanted Darling we would have drafted him. Well i can assure you that Ratts would give his left testicle for Darling now.

Or, if WC wanted Fyfe we would have drafted him. If WC could jump in a time machine we would definitely change our pick for him after seeing how he actually performs in the AFL.

On topic, maybe Lucas has a bit more upside than Stevens but not by much.
 

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WaltzingMatera said:
That doesn't make a lot of sense. It is like saying, if we wanted Darling we would have drafted him. Well i can assure you that Ratts would give his left testicle for Darling now.
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As good as Darling has been I'd still rather have the kids we drafted last season. We only drafted Watson over him and I'd really like to hang onto him. I wouldn't trade him straight up for Jack but neither would you trade Jack for Matthew. If we argued from that point of view it'd turn into the same argument that we had a couple of years ago, Chris Yarran Vs Daniel Rich all over again.
 
The Falcon Strike said:
And I never once commented on Bower's value to Carlton - it was Calrton supporters offering him up - not me.

If Bower is so required at Carlton - he won't be on the trade table
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2 statements that ring true to both our supporters and club at times.:mad:
We just really aren't are a very smart bunch of individuals when it comes to trading and other clubs take us for a ride more often than not. S Icke was doing this at Fremantle and looks like the jinx has followed him at Carlton.:(
 
SurreyBlue said:
2 statements that ring true to both our supporters and club at times.:mad:
We just really aren't are a very smart bunch of individuals when it comes to trading and other clubs take us for a ride more often than not. S Icke was doing this at Fremantle and looks like the jinx has followed him at Carlton.:(
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How exactly is that so?
Laidler was a nice pick-up for a 33
Warnock for a 24 is bearing fruit
Judd wasn't too bad a pick-up, one would think
Grigg was going anyway so the swap for Collins was fair enough
Jacobs went low, but we didn't have much choice. Had have we still had him, he would played this year out with the Ants anyway and McCarthy will be a good get, for us.

You're talking about Brock, aren't you?
 
Lucas is a very good young mid. Exceptional runner and skills are good without being elite. Played good footy in his first year as a skinny kid. Only good players can do that. Unlikely to leave (unless he wants out). Club will tell him he's scotlands replacement. Reminds me of a young Simpson but more advanced thAn Simpson at same age. You'd want something very good if he was traded. As usual opposition fans have no idea how good he is
 
Harker, without going into a club bashing on here, I hold true to my statement.
In regards to actual trades;
Judd trade involved a KP forward = never should have been included and should have told Worsfold to go forth & multiply. When a young kid doesn't want to go and shows so much committment towards the club, you need to show the same back. What we did was embarrassing. Don't forget the club receiving a player walking out is apparently holding upper hand in trade!
Jacobs & Grigg trade comes to mind now.....Jacobs = not enough compensation no matter how good or bad our drafting might be with the pick. Adelaide treated us with disrespect. Grigg = well joke!. McLean trade is obviously another and there are others that luckily didn't go through like the Fevola trade - pre: Hendo/pick11.
Now as for us not being smart enough with the players we want to trade ... true again!
 
I'm watching the Bower, Setanta, Lucas, etc... trades/signings very closely this year and Sticky Icke will be in the gun on these sites if he flowers up again!!!!
 

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Is this thread just here because he's a second year 1st round draft pick who couldn't make the Carlton seniors line-up due to injuries this year? Or is there actually some sort of evidence that he wants out/ will be traded?
 
I would seriously contemplate offering Lucas (with a swap of picks) for gumbleton.
Both first round draft picks who have problems getting their body right. If essendon get Lucas right would be a win for them. If we get gumby right would be a massive win for us.
Thoughts?
 
Not a chance in hell! Lucas is a second year player who has had a couple of injury issues compared to Gumby who has been about to get on the park a couple of times in five years.

Lucas trade value would be close to wghat we paid, somehere btw 10-20 whereas Gumby has little value
 
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