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Kane Tenace

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WE Are Geelong said:
Mate you are becoming an idiot. One minute its just a myriad of players around a pack...now if I suggest hey they stand in different positions and it varies regarding where the ball up is on the ground you're like...I knew that..I knew that..Just for the record I am not buying that ok. Not condescending...thats just whats been written...let other people read back and decide.

Point form...as I said dont have time.

* We are very strong with our inside mids at the moment..picking an inside mid like Prismall to play an outside role like Tenace is why we have improved this year...we dont do it anymore.

*Brereton touched on it in his article...pick players in positions that are attributed to their playing strengths and dont just pick a side that looks good on paper. ie ...Recall the last time we played the pies..Thompson suggested it was the best side picked all year yet we got creamed..why?..because it wasnt picked for the opposition or the ground we played at so we got rolled over.

*Prismall is a great young player...but Tenace pure and simple will get to far more loose football because he is quicker...and thats what we need him for. Think of sides busting a gut to break out of a stoppage...the ball spills free 20-30 metres up the ground and Tenace runs on to it... counter acting any hope of a 50/50 and the ball is heading up the other end of the ground before the opposition has time to turn around.

*Often you will see the centre clearance land near the centre half forward post..often its cleared players heads or its changed direction and players are heading towards it...Tenace on a 10 metre burst in a straight line is as fast a player as anyone in the league and if he is near it he will get it...this is what we need him for.

*The only stats that matter to me are ones that relate to scoring or stopping the opposition scoring...Tenace can relieve what would have been a 50/50 or forward thrust for them and turns it into attack quickly for us. Its a great advantage when we are already doing so well at stoppages and running through the middle of the ground this year. It creates an unnerving amount of pressure on the opposition defensively to have this extra and different aspect to our play. Sides are trying to cover Wojo also...Tenace makes thats harder. These two guys only need the ball 10-15 times a game to cause real trouble for the opposition. Even if the disposal is not so great the ball rebounds very quickly going the other way and thats dangerous.

*As mentioned...sides like the Crows and Sydney and West Coast have utilised this with super fast running half backs in the past. Tenace has not reached this standard...but this is what we are working towards and it has changed the way footy has been played as most scoring opportunities these days start from the half back line. Tenace is there to start the run off half back but to also do it in a way where the opposition are struggling to counter the speed with which it is coming back from what should have been a 50/50 situation from a stoppage. Its very tiring for the opposition and footy is all about attrition these days. We are not just outscoring sides in the last 5 minutes of matches because we are so much fitter...its because we are wearing sides out with the way we play...this is a huge key to our play.

*I suspect Tenace is having trouble disposing of the footy because he has so much going through his head in a very short period of time..one because he moves so quickly...and secondly the role is new to him. It has a more defensive aspect than just playing on a wing for instance.

Thats a reasonable start. Your thoughts? And please dont say you thought of this all before...you havent mentioned a word of it. If you say its irrelevant..please write that and I will frame your post on my wall as memories of being on the BF site and what it truly means to be here...;)
Click to expand...

Firstly, thankyou for bloody responding eventually, although it took at least three goading posts before you finally did it:p

Secondly, I'd just like to say that I don't like the style of your posts - You insinuate that you're the only one that thought of these things - and it's not about "I knew it....I knew it", it's about using information to back up an argument.
Now back to Tenace.

Yes I can see the reasons for why he is in the team - but the majority of your arguments are based on his pace - I just don't think he's got sufficient pace for this role, I haven't seen enough evidence of it. For instance I've think I've only seen him chase down an opposition player with a tackle a couple of times - not something I'd expect from a player who's in a side merited for his speed.
 
CatFan79 said:
What i get out of this...

His ONLY strength "currently" is being able to run into space quickly.

He deserves a spot because other players win the ball and give him the chance to get a cheap receive.

Brereton is a twit. Already knew that... Collingwood are the most competitive team in the competition who make you earn your kicks, no easy touches sorry Kane.

Tenace could be a useful running half back, unfortunately he lacks awareness and kicking ability.

Tenace is excused from the poor disposal because his brain needs to work too quick.. This is my favourite by the way! :D
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You being the expert on how quick the game is played today of course...and how long it takes young players to learn new positions of play.

Tenace gets a fair amount of his own footy mate...watch the games and stop just making stuff up.

You havent touched on what wins flags these days...what Geelong is trying to develop Tenace to be in the side.

His only strength is getting to the footy first in the open...hardly required today is it mate? Are you high or something?

Tenace could be a useful half back according to you...but he isnt...ever heard of training a guy or giving him a chance to learn the craft..or does it all just fall magically out of the sky mate?

You are a dumb dud poster...want me to continue on you let me know. Start addressing what wins flags mate and stop just talking back yard footy rubbish...because that is what you excel at.
 
Can I just throw this in . You are both making some really good reads guy . very interesting points by both sides. good stuff
 
WE Are Geelong said:
Mate you are becoming an idiot. One minute its just a myriad of players around a pack...now if I suggest hey they stand in different positions and it varies regarding where the ball up is on the ground you're like...I knew that..I knew that..Just for the record I am not buying that ok. Not condescending...thats just whats been written...let other people read back and decide.

Point form...as I said dont have time.

* We are very strong with our inside mids at the moment..picking an inside mid like Prismall to play an outside role like Tenace is why we have improved this year...we dont do it anymore.

*Brereton touched on it in his article...pick players in positions that are attributed to their playing strengths and dont just pick a side that looks good on paper. ie ...Recall the last time we played the pies..Thompson suggested it was the best side picked all year yet we got creamed..why?..because it wasnt picked for the opposition or the ground we played at so we got rolled over.

*Prismall is a great young player...but Tenace pure and simple will get to far more loose football because he is quicker...and thats what we need him for. Think of sides busting a gut to break out of a stoppage...the ball spills free 20-30 metres up the ground and Tenace runs on to it... counter acting any hope of a 50/50 and the ball is heading up the other end of the ground before the opposition has time to turn around.

*Often you will see the centre clearance land near the centre half forward post..often its cleared players heads or its changed direction and players are heading towards it...Tenace on a 10 metre burst in a straight line is as fast a player as anyone in the league and if he is near it he will get it...this is what we need him for.

*The only stats that matter to me are ones that relate to scoring or stopping the opposition scoring...Tenace can relieve what would have been a 50/50 or forward thrust for them and turns it into attack quickly for us. Its a great advantage when we are already doing so well at stoppages and running through the middle of the ground this year. It creates an unnerving amount of pressure on the opposition defensively to have this extra and different aspect to our play. Sides are trying to cover Wojo also...Tenace makes thats harder. These two guys only need the ball 10-15 times a game to cause real trouble for the opposition. Even if the disposal is not so great the ball rebounds very quickly going the other way and thats dangerous.

*As mentioned...sides like the Crows and Sydney and West Coast have utilised this with super fast running half backs in the past. Tenace has not reached this standard...but this is what we are working towards and it has changed the way footy has been played as most scoring opportunities these days start from the half back line. Tenace is there to start the run off half back but to also do it in a way where the opposition are struggling to counter the speed with which it is coming back from what should have been a 50/50 situation from a stoppage. Its very tiring for the opposition and footy is all about attrition these days. We are not just outscoring sides in the last 5 minutes of matches because we are so much fitter...its because we are wearing sides out with the way we play...this is a huge key to our play.

*I suspect Tenace is having trouble disposing of the footy because he has so much going through his head in a very short period of time..one because he moves so quickly...and secondly the role is new to him. It has a more defensive aspect than just playing on a wing for instance.

Thats a reasonable start. Your thoughts? And please dont say you thought of this all before...you havent mentioned a word of it. If you say its irrelevant..please write that and I will frame your post on my wall as memories of being on the BF site and what it truly means to be here...;)
Click to expand...

Ok now this is at least more interesting than saying Tenace is crap.... no he is not... yes he is.

I will say that I question the validity of the argument that Tenace is being targeted at all and if he was being targeted I question your reasoning for him being targeted.

I will also say that teams are going to use the Welsh stratergy on Tenace every week now. I am not sure we have an answer for that unless Tenace improves his defensive skills. Hence I think we should bring in Josh Hunt
 

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WE Are Geelong said:
You being the expert on how quick the game is played today of course...and how long it takes young players to learn new positions of play.

Tenace gets a fair amount of his own footy mate...watch the games and stop just making stuff up.

You havent touched on what wins flags these days...what Geelong is trying to develop Tenace to be in the side.

His only strength is getting to the footy first in the open...hardly required today is it mate? Are you high or something?

Tenace could be a useful half back according to you...but he isnt...ever heard of training a guy or giving him a chance to learn the craft..or does it all just fall magically out of the sky mate?

You are a dumb dud poster...want me to continue on you let me know. Start addressing what wins flags mate and stop just talking back yard footy rubbish...because that is what you excel at.
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hehehe you are hilarious! More! More! More!
 
DanA said:
Ok now this is at least more interesting than saying Tenace is crap.... no he is not... yes he is.

I will say that I question the validity of the argument that Tenace is being targeted at all and if he was being targeted I question your reasoning for him being targeted.

I will also say that teams are going to use the Welsh stratergy on Tenace every week now. I am not sure we have an answer for that unless Tenace improves his defensive skills. Hence I think we should bring in Josh Hunt
Click to expand...

With respect, they can't "use the Welsh strategy". All we have to do is take him away from full back.
 
WE Are Geelong said:
ever heard of training a guy or giving him a chance to learn the craft..or does it all just fall magically out of the sky mate?
Click to expand...

Nearly all of your posting is rubbish but this is one comment, which is just plain wrong. Tenace is a 50+ player now with plenty of senior games over the last 3 years to show what he has got to offer.
How can you possibly train a guy who is a borderline experienced AFL player?

Tenace lacks talent. His awareness is the worst in the side and I really can't think of a worst player for disposal by hand and foot in the team. These 2 aspects of nearly all footballers is talent related and almost not trainable. Tenace hasn't got it. Watch Joel Selwood(10 games new!) if you don't understand what I'm talking about. Bottom line.... Tenace made it to AFL standard because of speed, which he can't even use to its full extent because of next to no awareness and lateral movement ability(eg. Wojcinski).

An even better question... Why would you bother playing him in the seniors when there are at least 2 more effective players who could slot into team? The obvious answer is faith yeah?? Well, the club has put its faith in this bloke for too long and he is a proven non-performer. I can't recall any outstanding/important performances of his, and getting 30+ uncontested touches means nothing. He cannot man a defensive post... Lets bring in Hunt and/or Johnson and march into the GF!!!
 
martyk said:
Nearly all of your posting is rubbish but this is one comment, which is just plain wrong. Tenace is a 50+ player now with plenty of senior games over the last 3 years to show what he has got to offer.
How can you possibly train a guy who is a borderline experienced AFL player?

Tenace lacks talent. His awareness is the worst in the side and I really can't think of a worst player for disposal by hand and foot in the team. These 2 aspects of nearly all footballers is talent related and almost not trainable. Tenace hasn't got it. Watch Joel Selwood(10 games new!) if you don't understand what I'm talking about. Bottom line.... Tenace made it to AFL standard because of speed, which he can't even use to its full extent because of next to no awareness and lateral movement ability(eg. Wojcinski).

An even better question... Why would you bother playing him in the seniors when there are at least 2 more effective players who could slot into team? The obvious answer is faith yeah?? Well, the club has put its faith in this bloke for too long and he is a proven non-performer. I can't recall any outstanding/important performances of his, and getting 30+ uncontested touches means nothing. He cannot man a defensive post... Lets bring in Hunt and/or Johnson and march into the GF!!!
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He got us over the line against the Saints last year at Telstra Dome when he had about 10 or more important touches in the last quarter.

He had a shocker on Friday night no doubt. But to give a little balance the bloke whose tyres you are pumping up (Hunt) has had more than his fair share of shockers too.

By the way they are different types of players and should be used in different roles. Leaving Tenace one out on Welsh was a shocking coaching move by Bomber pure and simple.
 
catempire said:
He's not clearly in our best 22
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Slightly off-topic, (and I'm not having a go at you specifically catempire) but it's interesting that people so often talk as if there is a "best 22" and that is set in stone (or at least that it doesn't change very often). This makes the assumption that a player's form is a stable thing and that, for example, Tenance is always a worse player than say Enright. However, a players form can fluctuate significantly during a season and our best 22 will change constantly. What makes picking the team so difficult is that the coaches are not just looking at current form but at what they think the player will produce in the next match. A classic example of this was the selection of Tom Harley. In this case I think they have been vindicated, but there will be other times where it doesn't come off (and then everyone jumps up and down with the benefit of hindsight saying what idiots the coaches were).

So, back to Tenace, I think there have been times this year where he has pretty clearly (IMHO) been in our best 22. Equally, I think there have been times when he hasn't and I guess that is why he is generating so much discussion on this board...
 
catempire said:
With respect, they can't "use the Welsh strategy". All we have to do is take him away from full back.
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That means he can't play in the backline because teams are going to keep isolating him one out in their forwardline.


"By the way they are different types of players and should be used in different roles."

Hunt can play a similar role racking up rebound 50's and inside 50's. He is not as dynamic with his running but he makes up for that with better footskills and defensive skills. He is still an attacking small backmen so I would say he can be used in a similar role.
 
year of the cat said:
But to give a little balance the bloke whose tyres you are pumping up (Hunt) has had more than his fair share of shockers too.
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Hunt is a more effective player in nearly every respect. Not only wins the ball, but hits targets running out of defense. Good rebound 50 player, better tackler, better for marking opposition forwards... often got Davey, N.Brown, Milne etc, etc...

He's had shockers yes... all players do. I believe Hunt brings much more to the table though. A more diverse player. I would also pick Johnson well and truly before Tenace also. Tenace came back for the round 6 win(Tigers) and has been carried by the team performances... It looks to me that the fact the Tenace was a high pick(7), gives him more time than others to show form... The bloke has had enough chances.
 
My5t3r10u5 said:
Slightly off-topic, (and I'm not having a go at you specifically catempire) but it's interesting that people so often talk as if there is a "best 22" and that is set in stone (or at least that it doesn't change very often). This makes the assumption that a player's form is a stable thing and that, for example, Tenance is always a worse player than say Enright. However, a players form can fluctuate significantly during a season and our best 22 will change constantly. What makes picking the team so difficult is that the coaches are not just looking at current form but at what they think the player will produce in the next match. A classic example of this was the selection of Tom Harley. In this case I think they have been vindicated, but there will be other times where it doesn't come off (and then everyone jumps up and down with the benefit of hindsight saying what idiots the coaches were).

So, back to Tenace, I think there have been times this year where he has pretty clearly (IMHO) been in our best 22. Equally, I think there have been times when he hasn't and I guess that is why he is generating so much discussion on this board...
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I agree with that. The concept of a best 22 is greatly overused.

DanA said:
That means he can't play in the backline because teams are going to keep isolating him one out in their forwardline.
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Just need a coach that's on the ball. On Friday night's evidence, I'm not sure we do.

There are plenty of defenders in the league that can't play that role and do just fine. Tenace can be the same.

martyk said:
Hunt is a more effective player in nearly every respect.
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Yet he's in the VFL and Kane's in the AFL. Hmmm... :p
 
My5t3r10u5 said:
Slightly off-topic, (and I'm not having a go at you specifically catempire) but it's interesting that people so often talk as if there is a "best 22" and that is set in stone (or at least that it doesn't change very often). This makes the assumption that a player's form is a stable thing and that, for example, Tenance is always a worse player than say Enright. However, a players form can fluctuate significantly during a season and our best 22 will change constantly. What makes picking the team so difficult is that the coaches are not just looking at current form but at what they think the player will produce in the next match. A classic example of this was the selection of Tom Harley. In this case I think they have been vindicated, but there will be other times where it doesn't come off (and then everyone jumps up and down with the benefit of hindsight saying what idiots the coaches were).

So, back to Tenace, I think there have been times this year where he has pretty clearly (IMHO) been in our best 22. Equally, I think there have been times when he hasn't and I guess that is why he is generating so much discussion on this board...
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Excellent point. There are obviously at least a dozen or more players that automatically pick themselves. Infact this year with the form we are currently showing there is probably a lot more than that - guys like Mackie, Enright etc are now I would assume seen as stable "best 22" players.

Tenace is obviously in that group of 5-10 players that are borderline, week to week prospects. In that category you would probably put Hawkins, Varcoe, Stokes, Prismall, DJ, Hunt, and possibly even King. Barring injuries our team is very settled at the moment which is one of the reasons no doubt for our ongoing success.

But as you have said, form fluctuates and it would be no surprise to see Tenace dropped this week, particularly against the pies who have a couple of small, nippy forward types (Didak, Davis) who need matching up. To me either DJ or Hunt should come in this week for matchup reasons as much as anything.
 

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Think Tenace is still a very important player at Geelong without being one of our best players. We are always going to need a Tenace to fill the gaps in our side. without ever being a Ablett or a Chapman or a Bartel or even a varcoe or a Stokes.
Tenace, King and others will come and go and do there share with out lighting up the AFL world
 
My5t3r10u5 said:
Slightly off-topic, (and I'm not having a go at you specifically catempire) but it's interesting that people so often talk as if there is a "best 22" and that is set in stone (or at least that it doesn't change very often). This makes the assumption that a player's form is a stable thing and that, for example, Tenance is always a worse player than say Enright. However, a players form can fluctuate significantly during a season and our best 22 will change constantly. What makes picking the team so difficult is that the coaches are not just looking at current form but at what they think the player will produce in the next match. A classic example of this was the selection of Tom Harley. In this case I think they have been vindicated, but there will be other times where it doesn't come off (and then everyone jumps up and down with the benefit of hindsight saying what idiots the coaches were).

So, back to Tenace, I think there have been times this year where he has pretty clearly (IMHO) been in our best 22. Equally, I think there have been times when he hasn't and I guess that is why he is generating so much discussion on this board...
Click to expand...

Granted, but as much of a throwaway line as it is, I guess it simply highlights those who are 'givens' as selections, and those who aren't (borderline guys, I guess). But if we are to go as deep as you suggest, then I agree on the analysis of fluctuating form, of which Kane is certainly prone to.

But a good post.
 
martyk said:
Hunt is a more effective player in nearly every respect. Not only wins the ball, but hits targets running out of defense. Good rebound 50 player, better tackler, better for marking opposition forwards... often got Davey, N.Brown, Milne etc, etc...

He's had shockers yes... all players do. I believe Hunt brings much more to the table though. A more diverse player. I would also pick Johnson well and truly before Tenace also. Tenace came back for the round 6 win(Tigers) and has been carried by the team performances... It looks to me that the fact the Tenace was a high pick(7), gives him more time than others to show form... The bloke has had enough chances.
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I reckon he needs to go back down this week as well. Don't get me wrong I know he has his deficencies. But I see more potential in him than obviously you do. I still think our midfield is too one-paced at times. Tenace adds legspeed and in my opinion complements the inside players like Corey, Bartel and Gazza.
 
Tonycam* said:
Think Tenace is still a very important player at Geelong without being one of our best players. We are always going to need a Tenace to fill the gaps in our side. without ever being a Ablett or a Chapman or a Bartel or even a varcoe or a Stokes.
Tenace, King and others will come and go and do there share with out lighting up the AFL world
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See, I just don't get that attitude. Why have "fill the gaps players"? This is a side that could potentially win the flag, we shouldn't be playing blokes for any other reason than they have EARNED it. We don't need to blood kids.. or have players getting form in the seniors with our current depth. Put the dam best side on the park every week PERIOD
 

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martyk said:
See, I just don't get that attitude. Why have "fill the gaps players"? This is a side that could potentially win the flag, we shouldn't be playing blokes for any other reason than they have EARNED it. We don't need to blood kids.. or have players getting form in the seniors with our current depth. Put the dam best side on the park every week PERIOD
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understand Marty but what about injuries , dont we need those players to cover these things , such as Rooke last week. Tenace is only in because Rooke was out mate , Real class A players arnt going to be there to cover these things.
 

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