Unsolved Karmein Chan

mikey127

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Its so said that this case has never been resolved.

I won't say where it is even though a lot of people would know but I am a reguarly at her mothers take away shop and she is the most lovely lady you will ever meet and despite this tradgedy still has a great sense of humour.

The reality is they don't know whether whoever did it is alive, dead, jumped the country, in jail for something else or what.
 

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#2
Very sad story. I was a kid around the same age, it really changed how parents saw their child's safety at the time. Almost every day at school some kid/s would be reporting being followed by strangers to the teachers, and parents were picking kids up instead of letting them walk home. One of those crimes that changed peoples attitudes in Melbourne and Victoria, sadly.

Is often linked to being part of (perhaps the last) the Mr Cruel reign of crimes, although some think its a seperate perpertrator. Gets press every year or so, Victoria Police still look into it but seems to be one of those cases they'll never be able to solve. I had heard years ago that the Police 'knew' who did it but couldn't prove it. Every few weeks/months they give him a visit to remind him they are watching; which is why there were no more victims. No idea whether this is true, but had heard it from a couple of different areas.
 

vast

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#3
There was a great series of articles in the HS in their new true crime section about Mr Cruel earlier this year. I obviously new of his crimes as a kid but I had never read the details. Seriously scary what this guy did and really disturbing. One of the lead investigators Fontana (i think) was certain he knew who they guy was but not enough evidence, because virtually no evidence was left behind the closest they got was a 16 hour interrogation but had to let him go. I have a friend who used to work with him but I couldn't get any details out of her other than they probably knew who it was. There were other detectives who had different suspects though.
 

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There was some speculation that Mr Cruel was actually someone of 'repute'- I think the popular theory was a lawyer.

I was only three when she was found, so I don't recall it happening at the time. I often go walking and jogging along Edgars Creek (a little further downstream in Resevoir and Coburg) now, and it was a little unnverving at first when I found out she had been dumped just a couple of kilometres upstream in Keon Park.
 

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#6
There was some speculation that Mr Cruel was actually someone of 'repute'- I think the popular theory was a lawyer.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was a lawyer, or another 'professional' like a doctor or someone versed in forensics, etc. The lack of evidence and details regarding a perpertrator possibly points to this also. Wouldn't be surprised if it's never solved, but I hope it is.
 
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#7
Recall the case well. Guy I went to school with knew her.

I also recall there being suggestion that Karmein was killed because the Dad had crossed very serious Chinese organised crime groups by refusing to launder money through his restaurant, or not paying standover money or similar.
 

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#8
Isn't there a theory on this one that the police know who it is but can't prove it? That they have pretty much been keeping an eye on him since so nothing else happens?
 

vast

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Isn't there a theory on this one that the police know who it is but can't prove it? That they have pretty much been keeping an eye on him since so nothing else happens?
Possible as I said in my earlier post one cop firmly believed he knew who it was. But I wonder as an FBI profiler said a offender like this one rarely stops unless dead or caught. Maybe he moved overseas or just went overseas to commit crimes. He would still be able to leave the country wouldn't he? I mean if he has never been charged with any crime.

Looking into this guy, there are rumours that it was someone who worked at the Heidelberg Repatriation Hospital.

This is from a live HS chat with former homicide cop charles bezzina

http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.p...sk=viewaltcast&altcast_code=c6a7972fca&ipod=y
 

kickazz

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#10
bump

Police have increased the reward for information leading to catching Mr Cruel.

I too remember this being big news when I was a kid (also remember the Nicola Lynas abduction, not so much Sharon Wills).
To abduct and return was rather brazen, but a lot of the modus operandi suggested he was quite meticulous and knowledgeable of forensics.

Did he kill Karmein because he got sloppy and she ended up exposed to stuff that could incriminate him?
Experts say it would be unlikely he's stop offending, so what happened? Did he die, drastically change hiss MO or leave the country?

Truly was a scary time. Don't know if anyone could be so brazen today and not get caught.


So why the increase? Do the cops really think there is someone who knows something? If it was anything of substance would they have not come forward by now? Or do the police need to provide a bit more info to prompt the right sort of information coming forward?

Perhaps just making it newsworthy again may set off some behaviour (in potential witnesses, or the perp) that they can work with.

What are people's gut feelings on it? I can't see him ever coming to justice unfortunately.
 

beta_condition

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Possible as I said in my earlier post one cop firmly believed he knew who it was. But I wonder as an FBI profiler said a offender like this one rarely stops unless dead or caught. Maybe he moved overseas or just went overseas to commit crimes. He would still be able to leave the country wouldn't he? I mean if he has never been charged with any crime.
Child predators that don't get caught right away are often very clever and have no criminal history so yes very possible he skipped country,

Karmein's abduction is quite out of place from what I understand of Mr.Cruel he was apparently "very caring" with his other victims, so you assume he had a twisted sense of morality. So if Karmein was one of his victims something set him off, maybe he tried living out a new fetish and acted on impulse and later regretted what he did and committed suicide, would explain the sudden stop he obviously was very abrasive with his abductions so stopping manually is unlikely.
 

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vast

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#12
Child predators that don't get caught right away are often very clever and have no criminal history so yes very possible he skipped country,

Karmein's abduction is quite out of place from what I understand of Mr.Cruel he was apparently "very caring" with his other victims, so you assume he had a twisted sense of morality. So if Karmein was one of his victims something set him off, maybe he tried living out a new fetish and acted on impulse and later regretted what he did and committed suicide, would explain the sudden stop he obviously was very abrasive with his abductions so stopping manually is unlikely.
I think most likely she either fought back as she did in her house or saw his face/knew who he was.

He had told a previous victim that he valued his freedom more than her life.
 

Visions

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Reading through the stories the most interesting thing I found was that the house where the girls were abducted was near a flight path as they heard jet planes coming in to land. They have a description of some of the rooms in the house and where the driveway was located in relation. I'm surprised they weren't able to pinpoint it using council records and doing a thorough search.
 

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Reading through the stories the most interesting thing I found was that the house where the girls were abducted was near a flight path as they heard jet planes coming in to land. They have a description of some of the rooms in the house and where the driveway was located in relation. I'm surprised they weren't able to pinpoint it using council records and doing a thorough search.
Pretty clearly northern suburbs then given the area she was found and so on. I would suggest a bit closer to the airport though due to the definitive sound of planes landing. Reckon anywhere from gladston park to the hume under that flight path is the best bet.
 
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Pretty clearly northern suburbs then given the area she was found and so on. I would suggest a bit closer to the airport though due to the definitive sound of planes landing. Reckon anywhere from gladston park to the hume under that flight path is the best bet.
Depends on what direction the planes were landing or taking off on the day at the time she was held captive.

Planes can land from all directions at Tulla.

Most likely within a 15km radius from the airport though it doesn't say how loud the planes were, just that they could be heard. I'd bet within 10k though given the house probably had some sort of walls blocking them out (brick would block more sound than weatherboard etc). More modern aircraft are quieter but sometimes I can hear aircraft out in the far eastern suburbs ie. 747 cargo planes.
 
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rippersnipper

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Depends on what direction the planes were landing or taking off on the day at the time she was held captive.
I know what you mean but very, very rare that planes don't land from the east. Seeing as there are basically no houses to the north and west and planes more commonly take off south than land from that direction i think east is the best area to look
 
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I know what you mean but very, very rare that planes don't land from the east. Seeing as there are basically no houses to the north and west and planes more commonly take off south than land from that direction i think east is the best area to look
Agree with you though that if landing then east, you are more likely to hear noise from a residential area given there are more houses closer to the airport under the flight path.
 

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Agree with you though that if landing then east, you are more likely to hear noise from a residential area given there are more houses closer to the airport under the flight path.
Yeah. There are only about 4 or 5 suburbs to the east of the airport that i would consider. Maybe mill park and lalor too although they could be a bit far away to hear the engines that well. To the south, it's a bit harder because there are a few more suburbs starting from the keilor suburbs and trending a few kms south. However even then it should narrow the options sufficiently.
 

Hard Ball Get

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#21
My aunt is good friend with her mother, went to the restaurant a few times, so sad.

This is one case that really stands out to me, as a kid growing up in the Fawkner/Pasco value area at the time, and having sisters, it was a scary thing to front.
 

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#22
Depends on what direction the planes were landing or taking off on the day at the time she was held captive.

Planes can land from all directions at Tulla.

Most likely within a 15km radius from the airport though it doesn't say how loud the planes were, just that they could be heard. I'd bet within 10k though given the house probably had some sort of walls blocking them out (brick would block more sound than weatherboard etc). More modern aircraft are quieter but sometimes I can hear aircraft out in the far eastern suburbs ie. 747 cargo planes.
Yes true, but both Sharon Wills and Nicola Lynas heard planes and quite a few of them. Sharon was held captive for 18 hours, Nicola for 50 hours. Surely they can cross match the days with when the planes were landing and their directions and take it from there and match it up with council plans of properties using the other information they had (i.e. driveway on right hand side of house, single step to the front door, etc) to limit the amount of possible properties and to owners/renters who were single men. Maybe they already did this and their searches came up with nothing.
 

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#23
Reading through the stories the most interesting thing I found was that the house where the girls were abducted was near a flight path as they heard jet planes coming in to land. They have a description of some of the rooms in the house and where the driveway was located in relation. I'm surprised they weren't able to pinpoint it using council records and doing a thorough search.
They searched my family home in Airport West because of the drive way being on the right hand side of the property and the layout of the house with the positions of the bedrooms and bathrooms. They made up some excuse about local burglaries and it wasn't until my parents went to a Neighborhood Watch meeting that they found out it was a systematic search of the area relating to Mr Cruel. They had been to the old Keilor Council to get the layouts of the houses and knew which ones to target. They were looking for a particular colour carpet and walls and the position of the wash basin in the bathroom.
 

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To my knowledge, no rewards have ever been paid out in the history of crime in Victoria. Maybe if they actually started paying these rewards for information they would get witnesses coming forward.
 
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