Unsolved Karmein Chan

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shellyg

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Take a pretty sick unit to abduct lil girls wouldn't it , especially to touch and knock female children . Too bad know one can piece it together can they shelly, some one must be close . Not a bad map , you into maps aswell ?
No but I was looking at that map anyway, checking to see if my memory of it was right. Not much more than a kid but it was a very big deal at the time.
 

metic

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#78
I have it on good authority from police sources her body was cut in half.
Never mentioned in msn news though was it.
Did police want you to keep it to yourself, or is it fine to say it publicly ?
I read that the bones were scattered around a bit and it was hard to collect everything.
But nowhere did it mention being cut in half!
Wonder why police dont release that information? Its well known from msn news that Sharon Masons body was cut in half, So why don't they mention If K.Chans was ?
 

metic

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#79
I know, a map right but I was having a quick look. It's always been interesting to me that the HA's Nomads Headquarters was only a stones throw really from where Karmein was found, that just behind where she was found it was alleged the Nomads were running their car rebirthing operations. Lot of raids etc and the police were always watching. So in that section, there were some pretty heavy characters and I've been brief.

They'd ride their bikes down Edgars Road onto Mahoneys a lot, get petrol near the corner. Cruel was running quite a bit of risk choosing that particular place to leave Karmein but I don't think it was lost on him. Not sure what it says but something.

The crosses are new buildings that I dont think were there when she was left. The lines, not sure ... could be add ons.

View attachment 525750

Another red herring he left her there? If so, he knew the dynamics of that area really well or leans more towards him being a cop imo.
Was the remains/body found at the X next to Dan Murphys?
 

shellyg

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I know, a map right but I was having a quick look. It's always been interesting to me that the HA's Nomads Headquarters was only a stones throw really from where Karmein was found, that just behind where she was found it was alleged the Nomads were running their car rebirthing operations. Lot of raids etc and the police were always watching. So in that section, there were some pretty heavy characters and I've been brief.
If so, he knew the dynamics of that area really well or could point more towards him being a cop imo.

Also, the Calabrians are right in the middle of all that. One of the buildings has a circular glass tower on top the owner can stand in with his binos and surveil the area. Control freak's probably got night vision goggles.
Interesting couple of blocks.
 

shellyg

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Cruel's FBI profile and details of their arrangement/advise to Vicpol. I had a quick look and couldn't see it in here, hope I haven't missed it and am repeating.

They think he lives in Lower Plenty, where the first attack was and that seemed to be strengthened when he returned to the general area for the fourth. It's quite interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/interactive/2016/fbi.pdf
 

vast

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Thanks. I never saw it until very recently, the similarities are fascinating. And a cop. What do you think of Elkner?
Honestly who knows if it was actually him. I only learned of his name recently but I did remember an article in the age where they talked about 7 suspects I think it was and the prime was a former lecturer so I assume him this was before they named anyone.

I know a girl who worked with to one of the lead investigators on the case, she worked wirh him way later though. He is a well known policeman and she briefly mentioned one day he had a strong suspect in his mind, she pretty much made it sound like it was definitely him at least in that cops mind but he obviously would not say who that was to her. I wonder now if that was him he was referring too?

It could very much likely be someone that isnt even a suspect. D'Angelo never came up at all.

I remember in another article they had a sketch of what his house may have looked liked from the outside and inside and police searched 20,000 homes or something like that. I wonder if they ever took the survivng victims around to see if they would recognise any of the places?

I cant think of any other way they get him without DNA or a confession. Unless somebody knows who that has not come forward yet.
 
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#86
Honestly who knows if it was actually him. I only learned of his name recently but I did remember an article in the age where they talked about 7 suspects I think it was and the prime was a former lecturer so I assume him this was before they named anyone.

I know a girl who worked with to one of the lead investigators on the case, she worked wirh him way later though. He is a well known policeman and she briefly mentioned one day he had a strong suspect in his mind, she pretty much made it sound like it was definitely him at least in that cops mind but he obviously would not say who that was to her. I wonder now if that was him he was referring too?

It could very much likely be someone that isnt even a suspect. D'Angelo never came up at all.

I remember in another article they had a sketch of what his house may have looked liked from the outside and inside and police searched 20,000 homes or something like that. I wonder if they ever took the survivng victims around to see if they would recognise any of the places?

I cant think of any other way they get him without DNA or a confession. Unless somebody knows who that has not come forward yet.
Deep down someone knows something and probably knows the person behind it all.
 

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shellyg

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I know a girl who worked with to one of the lead investigators on the case, she worked wirh him way later though. He is a well known policeman and she briefly mentioned one day he had a strong suspect in his mind, she pretty much made it sound like it was definitely him at least in that cops mind but he obviously would not say who that was to her. I wonder now if that was him he was referring too?
If it was Charlie Bezzina, he's a very good cop imo and he wouldn't have shied away from looking at one of their own if it pointed in that direction.

I remember in another article they had a sketch of what his house may have looked liked from the outside and inside
Not sure it was his house, a cop might know though when people go away on the school holidays for example. Just my opinion but the duct tape going missing from evidence isn't a good look, not on a case as high profile and serious as this. And if Elkner is number one, I'd have thought they would have got him. He must have decent alibis or something.
 

vast

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If it was Charlie Bezzina, he's a very good cop imo and he wouldn't have shied away from looking at one of their own if it pointed in that direction.

Not sure it was his house, a cop might know though when people go away on the school holidays for example. Just my opinion but the duct tape going missing from evidence isn't a good look, not on a case as high profile and serious as this. And if Elkner is number one, I'd have thought they would have got him. He must have decent alibis or something.
It was the same house that both the surviving victims were taken too I think. Doubt he breaks into the same house twice even if the attacks were always during school holidays odds of that seem low, but I guess there is the small possibility of having access to another home but given that home was made public in a sense surely someone would have recognised it if it belonged to one of the known suspects or a friend of theirs. Assuming they saw it on the news at all that is. That kinda makes me think it might be someone else as surely they would have checked all possible properties suspects could have had access too?

I dont think its a case of alibi, I just think its a case of not having enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt and as for the missing tape, I read it was more a case of incompetence and poor prodecure that saw it go missing rather than something more dubious. Perhaps that is just what is said publicly though if they do actually suspect one of their own, but personally I feel it most likely just was poor procedure, someone messing up etc.

I think they interrogated one guy for a very long time to try and get a confession but got nothing so had to let him go which also supports the theory of just not strong enough evidence. That reminds of a case in David Simons book 'A year on the killing streets' where they basically had a strong suspect who knew the victim but not strong enough evidence so put everything they could into getting a confession but could not do it.
 
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#89
If it was Charlie Bezzina, he's a very good cop imo and he wouldn't have shied away from looking at one of their own if it pointed in that direction.



Not sure it was his house, a cop might know though when people go away on the school holidays for example. Just my opinion but the duct tape going missing from evidence isn't a good look, not on a case as high profile and serious as this. And if Elkner is number one, I'd have thought they would have got him. He must have decent alibis or something.
I don't rate bezzina his claim to fame is stumbling across Paul denyar, and he was pretty basic .
 

shellyg

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I don't rate bezzina his claim to fame is stumbling across Paul denyar, and he was pretty basic .
Each entitled to their own opinion I suppose ... imo he didn't stumble over Paul Denyer serial. killer. he collared him. He's also a very nice person who comes from the Western Suburbs go doggies.
 
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Brings me to tears this case, but also because what I know about it. Let me get it straight that karmein is not one of mr cruels. Reason mr cruel is mentioned on this case and police think it is him is because they think he painted the message, he did used to leave traces at his other scenes that pointed to someone else and that karmein was a feisty child who pulled off her blindfold. Plausible theory and you cannot dismiss it

However what all I can say is that the thing about Asian drug dealing is possibly true. The chans has a family business but the father had a shady past. After the murder, the parents divorced, he took off and hasn’t been seen much.

There was a gang and I don’t know much about them but what I do know it was called the 45K gang, something along the lines of that. Phyllis, karemins mother was bashed by this gang, she was bashed soon after Karmeins disappearance for a debt that her husband owed to a member of this gang. I’m sure that this and other things were kept quiet when police interviewed the parents.

This person, whoever it was knew the family, they knew their movements. They knew when they would be out working at their restaurant and take away, they knew the house.

Very very sad
 

shellyg

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However what all I can say is that the thing about Asian drug dealing is possibly true. The chans has a family business but the father had a shady past. After the murder, the parents divorced, he took off and hasn’t been seen much.

There was a gang and I don’t know much about them but what I do know it was called the 45K gang, something along the lines of that. Phyllis, karemins mother was bashed by this gang, she was bashed soon after Karmeins disappearance for a debt that her husband owed to a member of this gang. I’m sure that this and other things were kept quiet when police interviewed the parents.
Cruel also knew when Nicola Linus's parents were out, the surveillance and research he did on all his victims was thorough. The Chans would have been easy compared to the others, they had a strict routine and obligations where they had to be at their restaurant.

Take enough girls, to be sure one of their parents might have something in their past or owe money somewhere but I'm pretty sure the Chans were cleared and there's a very good reason, one we haven't been made aware of, why the police believe it was Cruel who took Karmein. The police always feared that if he took another after Nicola, she would be murdered because he was steadily escalating with each attack and he'd told her 'My freedom is worth more than your life'.

Not many marriages last when a child of that union has been abducted and murdered, I don't think it's unusual perhaps even expected.

karmein.png
 
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Cruel also knew when Nicola Linus's parents were out, the surveillance and research he did on all his victims was thorough. The Chans would have been easy compared to the others, they had a strict routine and obligations where they had to be at their restaurant.

Take enough girls, to be sure one of their parents might have something in their past or owe money somewhere but I'm pretty sure the Chans were cleared and there's a very good reason, one we haven't been made aware of, why the police believe it was Cruel who took Karmein. The police always feared that if he took another after Nicola, she would be murdered because he was steadily escalating with each attack and he'd told her 'My freedom is worth more than your life'.

Not many marriages last when a child of that union has been abducted and murdered, I don't think it's unusual perhaps even expected.

View attachment 664670
Good point
You can’t discredit Mr cruel, although it doesn’t explain Phyllis being bashed soon after, the father taking off and having little contact as well. Not to mention the other info I’ve mentioned as well.
 
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That's a rumour then ... ?
Would like to edit but can’t
Yes this was reported and the head investigator was disgusted that she had been bashed, was mentioned in the media. Will try find if there is an article from them but she was bashed after the disappearance, to keep her quiet

Edit: He described Karmein's mother, who was beaten and robbed outside her home in January 1995, as inspirational.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/vic-schoolgirl-murder-takes-toll-on-family

Article below mentions it
 

shellyg

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Would like to edit but can’t
Yes this was reported and the head investigator was disgusted that she had been bashed, was mentioned in the media. Will try find if there is an article from them but she was bashed after the disappearance, to keep her quiet

Edit: He described Karmein's mother, who was beaten and robbed outside her home in January 1995, as inspirational.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/vic-schoolgirl-murder-takes-toll-on-family

Article below mentions it
Was it outside the Templestowe home? If it was, she was an easy mark by any thief willing to put the time into finding her house. She was probably assumed to be carrying cash takings home from the restaurant most nights.,
 

SmAshmoto

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#98
I just listened to the Casefile episode on Mr Cruel. The episode also mentions an extortion attempt against the family by 2 people claiming to have kidnapped Karmein. They were demanding a ransom when they were investigated and outed by police.

Talk about preying on vulnerable people...
 
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