DropBearess
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But what about her diaries and her own documentation that one of her children left "with a little help from me"?.
Current Kathleen Folbigg * Convictions Overturned
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One of the scientists was on the telly this morning but I honestly couldn't understand her (lack of coffee on my part maybe) but picked up the gist of what she was saying as in some gene which affects females ...but what about the male babies? I'm confused.
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Two babies apparently had the gene which was inherited from the mother and the other two had a variant of the same gene. I think ... so all four would be susceptible.
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Ahhh ok. I thought she was saying only the females carried the gene, just shows how easily things can get distorted,lol. But as DropBearess says what about the diary.
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The following extracts from Kathleen Folbigg's diary were read out during Crown Prosecutor Mark Tedeschi's opening address in the Supreme Court.
June 3, 1990
This was the day that Patrick Allan David Folbigg was born. I had mixed feelings this day. Whether or not I was going to cope as a mother or whether I was going to get stressed out like I did last time. I often regret Caleb and Patrick, only because your life changes so much and, maybe, I'm not a person who likes change. But we will see?
June 18, 1996
I'm ready this time. And I know I'll have help and support this time. When I think I'm going to lose control, like last times, I'll just hand baby over to someone else. Not feel totally alone. Getting back into my exercise after will help my state of mind and sleeping wherever possible as well. I have learnt my lesson this time.
June 22, 1996
I watched a movie today about schizophrenia, wonder if I have a mild curse of that? I change moods really quickly. In my most dangerous mood I'm not nice to be around and always want to be anywhere but where I am - as long as it has music and men to show off to. Then there are times I wish to be more of a home body and please my hubby. Am I strange or is this behaviour normal? Guess I'll never know.
October 14, 1996
Children thing still isn't happening. Thinking of forgetting the idea. Nature, fate and the man upstairs have decided I don't get a fourth chance. And rightly so I suppose. I would like to make all my mistakes and terrible thinking be corrected and mean something though. Plus, I'm ready to continue my family time now. But I think losing my temper stage and being frustrated with everything has passed. I now just let things happen and go with the flow. An attitude I should of had with all my children. If given the chance I'll have it with the next one.
January 1, 1997
Another year gone and what a year to come. I have a baby on the way, which means major personal sacrifice for both of us. But I feel confident about it all going well this time. I am going to call for help this time and not attempt to do everything myself anymore. I know that was the main reason for all my stress before and stress made me do terrible things.
February 4, 1997
Still can't sleep. Seem to be thinking of Patrick and Sarah and Caleb. Makes me seriously wonder whether I'm stupid or doing the right thing by having this baby. My guilt for how responsible I feel for them all haunts me. My fear of it happening again haunts me. My fear of Craig and I surviving if it did haunts me as well.
I wonder whether having this one wasn't just a determination on my behalf to get it right and not be defeated by my total inadequate feelings about myself.
What sort of mother am I, have been? A terrible one, that's what it boils down to. That's how I feel and that is what I think I'm trying to conquer with this baby. To prove that there is nothing wrong with me. If other women can do it, so can I.
Is that a wrong reason to have a baby? Yes I think so, but it's too late to realise now. I'm sure with the support I'm going to ask for I'll get through. What scares me most will be when I'm alone with baby. How do I overcome that? Defeat that?
April 28, 1997
I think this baby deserves everything I can give her. Considering I really gave nothing to the others. I think even my feelings towards this one are already deeper. Shame, but that's the way it is. I think its because I'm 30 now and time to settle and bring up a child. Obviously I wasn't ready before at all.
May 16, 1997
I think that she [Mel - a friend] will be a great help in preventing me from stressing out as much as I've done in the past. Night time and early mornings such as these will be the worst for me. That's when wishing someone else was awake with me will matter - purely because of what happened before. Craig says he will stress and worry, but he still seems to sleep okay every night and did with Sarah. I really needed him to wake that morning and take over from me. This time I've already decided if I ever feel that way again I'm going to wake him up.
July 6, 1997
Maybe then he [Craig] will see when stress of it all is getting to be too much and save me from feeling like I did before during my dark moods.
Hopefully preparing myself will mean the end of my dark moods, or at least the ability to see it coming and say to him or someone: "Hey, help, I'm getting overwhelmed here. Help me out." That will be the key to this baby's survival. It surely will. But, enough dwelling, things are different this time. It will all work out for sure.
June 11, 1997
Don't think I'll suffer Alzheimer's disease. My brain has too much happening, unstored and unrecalled memories just waiting. Heaven help the day they surface and I recall. That will be the day to lock me up and throw away the key. Something I'm sure will happen one day.
June 26, 1997
This time I'm positive, with support from friends etc and Craig, this time everything will work out fine and the sight and visions of the future I've been having will come true this time. With the other three I never bothered to think of school and teenage years. Maybe because I always knew they'd never get there. But this one, I see myself taking her to school and Craig doing homework etc with her. Therefore, I assume, I'm actually ready for the "family life" now where I wasn't before.
Feeling secure, loved, successful and wanted by Craig has helped me. And to a degree, the fact that I don't wish to die with no one really knowing I was here - at last now I know my son or daughter will, if God or that elusive higher power doesn't take them away from me once they are older to punish me. I'm trying to do this right. I hope that is received and understood.
September 20, 1997
Sleep, who needs it? Yes I'm getting a little bit irritable now. This is my punishment for the others - to be continually woken up because this time we know that we have a child with a sleeping disorder. How dare he [Craig] complain to me about lack of sleep? What the f--- would he know? Think he'll have to sleep in other room. Just so he's not disturbed - selfish prick. Well now I know where I stand. Craig is refusing to help and hasn't even attempted to in any way. Just wants me to bear all the stress, so he can keep selling his cars and making money. I suppose the stress of having to provide for us is real, but it's nothing compared to this.
October 25, 1997
I think Laura is beautiful compared to Sarah - she was cute but Laura has a special look about her. Her slight difference in looks gives her a beautiful face. Not just pretty, cute and cuddly, gorgeous and beautiful. Well so far anyway.
Looking at the video, Sarah was boyish looking. Laura has definite feminine features. They are chalk and cheese. And truthfully just as well. Wouldn't of handled another one like Sarah. She saved her life by being different.
November 9, 1997
Craig was pretty drunk Friday night. In his drunken stupor he admitted that he's not really happy. There's a problem with his security level with me and he has a morbid fear about Laura - he, well I know there's nothing wrong with her. Nothing out of ordinary anyway. Because it was me not them.
Think I handle her fits of crying better than I did with Sarah - I've learnt to, once getting to me, to walk away and breathe in for a while myself. It helps me cope and figure out how to help her.
With Sarah all I wanted was her to shut up. And one day she did.
December 8, 1997
Had a bad day today. Lost it with Laura a couple of times. She cried most of the day. Why do I do that? I must learn to read her better. She's pretty straight forward. She either wants to sleep or doesn't. Got to stop placing so much importance on myself.
Must try to release my stress somehow. I'm starting to take it out on her. Bad move. Bad things and thoughts happen when that happens. It will never happen again.
December 17, 1997
Tell you what - don't think anyone could read this and find out all my secrets. I write like a five-year-old. Disgusting to book.
December 31, 1997
Getting Laura to be next year ought to be fun. She'll realise a party is going on. And that will be it. Wonder if the battle of the wills will start with her and I then. We'll actually get to see. She's a fairly good natured baby, thank goodness, it will save her from the fate of her siblings. I think she was warned.
January 16, 1998
Been daydreaming again about life on my own. Wild, highly exaggerated, as if I would, could or really want to. Always seem to when not really happy. Sorry to say. I don't get excited anymore. Craig just doesn't do it for me any more. Has to be because of this last pregnancy. Plus I'm tired all the time. Want to do nothing but sleep. It's not Craig it's me. Plus, we don't get to go out to dinner or dancing together anymore. There isn't much, well there's no, romance between us anymore. It's all "let's make money and raise Laura". We've forgotten ourselves in the process. Sad how that happens.
One of my problems is I've lost me again. I'm just Mrs Craig Folbigg, now I'm just Laura's mother as well. Where's Kath gone? A person in her own right, who needs to have writing lessons but probably better if I don't then no one, not even me, will be able to read this when I'm gone.
January 28, 1998
Very depressed with myself, angry and upset. I've done it. I lost it with her. I yelled at her so angrily that it scared her. She hasn't stopped crying. Got so bad I nearly purposely dropped her on the floor and left her. I restrained enough to put her on the floor and walk away. Went to my room and left her to cry.
Was gone probably only five minutes but it seemed like a lifetime. I feel like the worst mother on this earth. Scared that she'll leave me now. Like Sarah did. I knew I was short tempered and cruel sometimes to her and she left. With a bit of help.
I don't want that to ever happen again. I actually seem to have a bond with Laura. It can't happen again. I'm ashamed of myself. I can't tell Craig about it because he'll worry about leaving her with me. Only seems to happen if I'm too tired. Her moaning, bored, whingy sound drives me up the wall. I truly can't wait until she's old enough to tell me what she wants.
www.smh.com.au
June 3, 1990
This was the day that Patrick Allan David Folbigg was born. I had mixed feelings this day. Whether or not I was going to cope as a mother or whether I was going to get stressed out like I did last time. I often regret Caleb and Patrick, only because your life changes so much and, maybe, I'm not a person who likes change. But we will see?
June 18, 1996
I'm ready this time. And I know I'll have help and support this time. When I think I'm going to lose control, like last times, I'll just hand baby over to someone else. Not feel totally alone. Getting back into my exercise after will help my state of mind and sleeping wherever possible as well. I have learnt my lesson this time.
June 22, 1996
I watched a movie today about schizophrenia, wonder if I have a mild curse of that? I change moods really quickly. In my most dangerous mood I'm not nice to be around and always want to be anywhere but where I am - as long as it has music and men to show off to. Then there are times I wish to be more of a home body and please my hubby. Am I strange or is this behaviour normal? Guess I'll never know.
October 14, 1996
Children thing still isn't happening. Thinking of forgetting the idea. Nature, fate and the man upstairs have decided I don't get a fourth chance. And rightly so I suppose. I would like to make all my mistakes and terrible thinking be corrected and mean something though. Plus, I'm ready to continue my family time now. But I think losing my temper stage and being frustrated with everything has passed. I now just let things happen and go with the flow. An attitude I should of had with all my children. If given the chance I'll have it with the next one.
January 1, 1997
Another year gone and what a year to come. I have a baby on the way, which means major personal sacrifice for both of us. But I feel confident about it all going well this time. I am going to call for help this time and not attempt to do everything myself anymore. I know that was the main reason for all my stress before and stress made me do terrible things.
February 4, 1997
Still can't sleep. Seem to be thinking of Patrick and Sarah and Caleb. Makes me seriously wonder whether I'm stupid or doing the right thing by having this baby. My guilt for how responsible I feel for them all haunts me. My fear of it happening again haunts me. My fear of Craig and I surviving if it did haunts me as well.
I wonder whether having this one wasn't just a determination on my behalf to get it right and not be defeated by my total inadequate feelings about myself.
What sort of mother am I, have been? A terrible one, that's what it boils down to. That's how I feel and that is what I think I'm trying to conquer with this baby. To prove that there is nothing wrong with me. If other women can do it, so can I.
Is that a wrong reason to have a baby? Yes I think so, but it's too late to realise now. I'm sure with the support I'm going to ask for I'll get through. What scares me most will be when I'm alone with baby. How do I overcome that? Defeat that?
April 28, 1997
I think this baby deserves everything I can give her. Considering I really gave nothing to the others. I think even my feelings towards this one are already deeper. Shame, but that's the way it is. I think its because I'm 30 now and time to settle and bring up a child. Obviously I wasn't ready before at all.
May 16, 1997
I think that she [Mel - a friend] will be a great help in preventing me from stressing out as much as I've done in the past. Night time and early mornings such as these will be the worst for me. That's when wishing someone else was awake with me will matter - purely because of what happened before. Craig says he will stress and worry, but he still seems to sleep okay every night and did with Sarah. I really needed him to wake that morning and take over from me. This time I've already decided if I ever feel that way again I'm going to wake him up.
July 6, 1997
Maybe then he [Craig] will see when stress of it all is getting to be too much and save me from feeling like I did before during my dark moods.
Hopefully preparing myself will mean the end of my dark moods, or at least the ability to see it coming and say to him or someone: "Hey, help, I'm getting overwhelmed here. Help me out." That will be the key to this baby's survival. It surely will. But, enough dwelling, things are different this time. It will all work out for sure.
June 11, 1997
Don't think I'll suffer Alzheimer's disease. My brain has too much happening, unstored and unrecalled memories just waiting. Heaven help the day they surface and I recall. That will be the day to lock me up and throw away the key. Something I'm sure will happen one day.
June 26, 1997
This time I'm positive, with support from friends etc and Craig, this time everything will work out fine and the sight and visions of the future I've been having will come true this time. With the other three I never bothered to think of school and teenage years. Maybe because I always knew they'd never get there. But this one, I see myself taking her to school and Craig doing homework etc with her. Therefore, I assume, I'm actually ready for the "family life" now where I wasn't before.
Feeling secure, loved, successful and wanted by Craig has helped me. And to a degree, the fact that I don't wish to die with no one really knowing I was here - at last now I know my son or daughter will, if God or that elusive higher power doesn't take them away from me once they are older to punish me. I'm trying to do this right. I hope that is received and understood.
September 20, 1997
Sleep, who needs it? Yes I'm getting a little bit irritable now. This is my punishment for the others - to be continually woken up because this time we know that we have a child with a sleeping disorder. How dare he [Craig] complain to me about lack of sleep? What the f--- would he know? Think he'll have to sleep in other room. Just so he's not disturbed - selfish prick. Well now I know where I stand. Craig is refusing to help and hasn't even attempted to in any way. Just wants me to bear all the stress, so he can keep selling his cars and making money. I suppose the stress of having to provide for us is real, but it's nothing compared to this.
October 25, 1997
I think Laura is beautiful compared to Sarah - she was cute but Laura has a special look about her. Her slight difference in looks gives her a beautiful face. Not just pretty, cute and cuddly, gorgeous and beautiful. Well so far anyway.
Looking at the video, Sarah was boyish looking. Laura has definite feminine features. They are chalk and cheese. And truthfully just as well. Wouldn't of handled another one like Sarah. She saved her life by being different.
November 9, 1997
Craig was pretty drunk Friday night. In his drunken stupor he admitted that he's not really happy. There's a problem with his security level with me and he has a morbid fear about Laura - he, well I know there's nothing wrong with her. Nothing out of ordinary anyway. Because it was me not them.
Think I handle her fits of crying better than I did with Sarah - I've learnt to, once getting to me, to walk away and breathe in for a while myself. It helps me cope and figure out how to help her.
With Sarah all I wanted was her to shut up. And one day she did.
December 8, 1997
Had a bad day today. Lost it with Laura a couple of times. She cried most of the day. Why do I do that? I must learn to read her better. She's pretty straight forward. She either wants to sleep or doesn't. Got to stop placing so much importance on myself.
Must try to release my stress somehow. I'm starting to take it out on her. Bad move. Bad things and thoughts happen when that happens. It will never happen again.
December 17, 1997
Tell you what - don't think anyone could read this and find out all my secrets. I write like a five-year-old. Disgusting to book.
December 31, 1997
Getting Laura to be next year ought to be fun. She'll realise a party is going on. And that will be it. Wonder if the battle of the wills will start with her and I then. We'll actually get to see. She's a fairly good natured baby, thank goodness, it will save her from the fate of her siblings. I think she was warned.
January 16, 1998
Been daydreaming again about life on my own. Wild, highly exaggerated, as if I would, could or really want to. Always seem to when not really happy. Sorry to say. I don't get excited anymore. Craig just doesn't do it for me any more. Has to be because of this last pregnancy. Plus I'm tired all the time. Want to do nothing but sleep. It's not Craig it's me. Plus, we don't get to go out to dinner or dancing together anymore. There isn't much, well there's no, romance between us anymore. It's all "let's make money and raise Laura". We've forgotten ourselves in the process. Sad how that happens.
One of my problems is I've lost me again. I'm just Mrs Craig Folbigg, now I'm just Laura's mother as well. Where's Kath gone? A person in her own right, who needs to have writing lessons but probably better if I don't then no one, not even me, will be able to read this when I'm gone.
January 28, 1998
Very depressed with myself, angry and upset. I've done it. I lost it with her. I yelled at her so angrily that it scared her. She hasn't stopped crying. Got so bad I nearly purposely dropped her on the floor and left her. I restrained enough to put her on the floor and walk away. Went to my room and left her to cry.
Was gone probably only five minutes but it seemed like a lifetime. I feel like the worst mother on this earth. Scared that she'll leave me now. Like Sarah did. I knew I was short tempered and cruel sometimes to her and she left. With a bit of help.
I don't want that to ever happen again. I actually seem to have a bond with Laura. It can't happen again. I'm ashamed of myself. I can't tell Craig about it because he'll worry about leaving her with me. Only seems to happen if I'm too tired. Her moaning, bored, whingy sound drives me up the wall. I truly can't wait until she's old enough to tell me what she wants.
Diary of mum accused of killing her four babies
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Author and legal academic Emma Cunliffe, who has written a book about the case, said: "I found the diaries distressing and difficult to interpret when I first read them. Kathleen Folbigg used her diaries to record her anxieties about herself and her mothering. She articulates her own sense that she carries some responsibility for her children's deaths, and when you read some of the entries that she puts, it sounds very much like she is hinting at having harmed the children."
Gradually, her opinion changed.
"I read the diaries now as Kathleen Folbigg blaming herself for getting frustrated, for losing her temper with her children, and feeling as if, if she had only been a better mother, perhaps the children would not have died. But that's very different from admitting that she killed the children."
Diary of mum accused of killing her four babies
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link for the complete details of petition lodged for Kathleen.
Notorious serial baby killer learns fate
Scientists say the evidence in support of Kathleen Folbigg’s innocence is “compelling” and “cannot be ignored” as the jailed mother continues to fight to overturn her convictions for killing her four infant children.
www.news.com.au
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What’s the thoughts on this one?
Even with the genetic issue, that diary is grim reading.
Even with the genetic issue, that diary is grim reading.
It is the greatest injustice in Australia that Kathleen Folbigg was ever convicted.
www.abc.net.au
Kathleen Folbigg's lawyers want inquest into children's deaths
Kathleen Folbigg, who was convicted in 2003 over the deaths of her four children, hopes a request to the NSW coroner could breathe new life into her bid to have her conviction overturned.
www.abc.net.au
Did you read the article?
Nothing to do with it being a woman or a man it is a conviction not based on scientific evidence that is available.
"There are more than 150 scientists and doctors, many of them leaders in their fields, now saying there's a genetic basis for the cause of deaths of Sarah and Laura, based on rigorous scientific evaluation," Ms Rego said.
It is in all likelihood that it is a gentic flaw that caused their deaths.......so yeah, a man did this too.
Four kids died. How many other families with a 'genetic defect' have had four infants die like this?
If a father was accused I doubt these crimes would be viewed in the same light.
I have no idea why you are insistant on making this an issue about men vs women.
It is not at issue that 4 children died and that it is a tragic case.
It is about a miscarriage of justice in the face of scientific evidence.
You obviously did not read the article I posted but want to straddle a hobby horse of your own bias.
'The former husband of convicted child killer Kathleen Folbigg is refusing to give a DNA sample and has withdrawn from an inquiry that could exonerate her over the deaths of their four infant children more than two decades ago.'
The success of Folbigg’s bid for freedom will hang on the strength of the new genetic evidence, which has been championed by some of the nation’s leading scientists, but Craig Folbigg’s refusal to provide DNA will limit the scope of the inquiry.
Mr Folbigg’s DNA has the potential to provide “considerable assistance” and reveal if he passed on any genetic mutations that could have led to the children’s deaths and establish from whom the boys inherited genetic mutations.
If you know the case in detail the husband has never been helpful to his then wife. That he wouldn't help with the provision of DNA now in the interests of getting to the truth leaves one thinking well what has he got to hide.
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Experts divided over whether genetic mutation could clear child killer Folbigg, inquiry told
Almost 20 years after Kathleen Folbigg was convicted of killing her four children, an inquiry is told of new research regarding a genetic mutation.
www.abc.net.au
Push continues for her release, but it says 2 of her kids didnt even have this genetic mutation. So its 2 from the genetic mutation (which she has and seems to be just fine) and 2 from SIDS?
I mean if it was a single father who had the 4 kids what would we be thinking the odds of nature rather than the parent?
Experts divided over whether genetic mutation could clear child killer Folbigg, inquiry told
Almost 20 years after Kathleen Folbigg was convicted of killing her four children, an inquiry is told of new research regarding a genetic mutation.
Push continues for her release, but it says 2 of her kids didnt even have this genetic mutation. So its 2 from the genetic mutation (which she has and seems to be just fine) and 2 from SIDS?
I mean if it was a single father who had the 4 kids what would we be thinking the odds of nature rather than the parent?
I also have never seen any evidence presented as to how many people in general have this genetic mutation? Is it 1/100000 or like 1/4?
They also conveniently fail to mention the outcome of the judicial inquiry, which was the judge was more convinced of her guilt than before the inquiry.
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SIDS is a really difficult area of science, sometimes infants die and nobody knows why. Is it acceptable for the law to create a default position of, if we cant find out today why they stopped breathing, it must be murder?
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There's more than one gene mutation that was passed down, one exclusively from Folbigg and the other from both but the father who seems like a real prik, is refusing to have his DNA taken.
Caleb and Patrick both, who didn't inherit the same mutation as the girls and/or science can't find it yet, did have the same genetic mutation linked to fatal epilepsy. Caleb couldn't breathe and swallow simultaneously and was diagnosed with a floppy larynx before he even left the hospital. Patrick was diagnosed as an infant with epilepsy and blindness.
utility
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He might be afraid of what science might find, that he and Kathleen are related by the first degree? Something like that.
Maybe it has something to do with the recent historical unsolved cases now solved by DNA?
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