Kdfl - 2011

[Joe Mama]

Hey John, while I realise that you're entitled to your opinion, and for the most part I agree with what your side of the arguement, I think you're constant use of the word 'nebulous' and your disdain for district clubs paying players have been risen enough.

If you're that passionate about it, why don't you use some other kind of forum or be proactive in joining a committee etc where action has more chance of success??

In reality only a minor % of people who follow the KDL read this forum, and as of yet I haven't read of another poster who actually agrees with your side of the arguement, therefore, it seems like chances of change are limited.

If you're that against Longwood paying for players who can help your team's onfield chances of success, why not run for presidency and convince the committee that they're better off not chasing players and paying recruits? Why not lobby with AFL Vic and convince them of the need to change the current approach by clubs? Or why not write an article in one of the local papers and see if you can drum up support that way..?

For the most part I get the impression that on this forum your arguement falls on deaf ears, so why not start 'walking the walk' instead of constantly 'talking the talk...?'

I don't want to rain all over your argument here Tav, but J.C is one of those people who backs up his words with actions, and he's one of those guys who aren't afraid to put something back into Longwood (just like with you and Rushy, coming back to have a fair dinkum crack at another flag when you've still got a number of years of Major Comp. footy still in you).

So in that way, both of you do good deeds for your respective clubs.

But, as far as player payments go, they've been around to some degree for decades (there's a good story about Rushy trying to recruit Murch players with cash nearly 100 years ago, that's was documented in our 100 year booklet our club did in 1981) , so even then, people have used the "carrot and stick", approach to get players, although like most clubs, there are blokes who aren't worth what they're getting paid, but I can't think of any better alternatives than the status quo we have now.

But, back to the gambling thing, although it's very unlikely that anyone would tank a game for money, but a situation like say a club running out of money after June 30 and not being able to pay players, and if that said club makes the Grand Final, and considering that Paid Players usually play in key positions, you would only need 5-6 players to back the opposition on the day for compensation, and to play dead to make it work.

That's what happened with the Chicago White Sox in 1919, when key players threw the World Series under similar circumstances to the senario that I've put up here (They make this into a movie called "Eight Men Out", with John Cusack & Charlie Sheen 20 years ago), they got caught and they were banned for life.

So, It can happen even though there would have to be a lot of variables to fall into place to pull it off, so J.C has a point there.

 

[Joe Mama]

Reading the Record from last week, I've noticed that Tallygaroopna are going to wear their traditional jumper (Bottle Green with a Red V, White Numbers, Red Shorts & Socks) as a one off against Undera on May 28th.

Congrats. to Tally for bringing back their old uniform, (even if it's only for a one-off) and I hope that they bring it back permanently in 2012, and ditch the Melbourne Jumpers they've worn for a decade.

Also, I've noticed that Merrigum got an Under 18's side playing again (their first game was against Tally, one of the favourites in the Under 18's), and although they were a bit short numbers wise, I hope that every club in the KDFL helps them out with players and support (Murch have been there before, and any help is appreciated), and I hope that this will the point where things turn around for the 'Dogs.

 

[Woody Woodman]

Conversation overheard between a KDFL netballer and footballer.
Netballer: Would like to purchase some fundraising chocolates?
Footballer: Dunno, what are they paying for?
Netballer: You!
While JC is certainly riding his hobby horse, these discussions must continue. The reality is that there are ‘seconds’ players from major leagues putting ridiculous prices on their own heads, that being more than the cost of petrol and membership. Desperate district clubs are acceding to their demands and this continues to drive up club costs. Of courses paid players need to be brought in but when does it get out of hand? There is little doubt that some clubs will soon go to wall and what then of the clubs remaining, back to the HDFL, off to the MFL? Perhaps the VCFL should call in clubs’ books and then set and enforce a cap. After all, it would be reasonable to assume that a KDFL club would turn over well in excess of $100,000 a year meaning that it should be subjected to business auditing procedures. Over the weekend the Hampden League complained that it was losing ‘seconds’ players to the district leagues’ money and this powerful competition is reassessing the future of its Reserves competition. Additionally, three years ago Shepparton Swans failed to field a Reserves side against Rochester. It’s head out orifice time boys and only an ongoing discussion will bring about suggestions for the future benefit of the game.

 

[Blackout]

Conversation overheard between a KDFL netballer and footballer.
Netballer: Would like to purchase some fundraising chocolates?
Footballer: Dunno, what are they paying for?
Netballer: You!
While JC is certainly riding his hobby horse, these discussions must continue. The reality is that there are ‘seconds’ players from major leagues putting ridiculous prices on their own heads, that being more than the cost of petrol and membership. Desperate district clubs are acceding to their demands and this continues to drive up club costs. Of courses paid players need to be brought in but when does it get out of hand? There is little doubt that some clubs will soon go to wall and what then of the clubs remaining, back to the HDFL, off to the MFL? Perhaps the VCFL should call in clubs’ books and then set and enforce a cap. After all, it would be reasonable to assume that a KDFL club would turn over well in excess of $100,000 a year meaning that it should be subjected to business auditing procedures. Over the weekend the Hampden League complained that it was losing ‘seconds’ players to the district leagues’ money and this powerful competition is reassessing the future of its Reserves competition. Additionally, three years ago Shepparton Swans failed to field a Reserves side against Rochester. It’s head out orifice time boys and only an ongoing discussion will bring about suggestions for the future benefit of the game.

I agree completely with what you're saying. Unfortunately a lot of people play football for the wrong reasons.

From my experience a lot of major league reserves players seem to forget they are only reserves players. I'm not talking about fringe senior players either, but run-of-the-mill reserves players who are putting price tags on themselves, when in reality they're borderline KDL senior footballers at best (in a lot of cases they want to tell their mates they're on X amount a game).

There is also the argument that if a club is silly enough to offer that kind of money then it's the club's fault. Unfortunately some district clubs don't really do much research into the calibre of players they throw money at; which unfortunately leads to the scenario above.

Personally I think it is the responsibility of the club to think about who they pay and what a player can do for their club.

 

[dwyane WADE show]

Reading the Record from last week, I've noticed that Tallygaroopna are going to wear their traditional jumper (Bottle Green with a Red V, White Numbers, Red Shorts & Socks) as a one off against Undera on May 28th.

Congrats. to Tally for bringing back their old uniform, (even if it's only for a one-off) and I hope that they bring it back permanently in 2012, and ditch the Melbourne Jumpers they've worn for a decade.

Also, I've noticed that Merrigum got an Under 18's side playing again (their first game was against Tally, one of the favourites in the Under 18's), and although they were a bit short numbers wise, I hope that every club in the KDFL helps them out with players and support (Murch have been there before, and any help is appreciated), and I hope that this will the point where things turn around for the 'Dogs.

Yeah for that round 7 May 28th Avenel are also changing their jumper. I've heard its because the kdfl has made it heritage round or something like that, so maybe all clubs are doing the same

 

[Blackout]

Yeah for that round 7 May 28th Avenel are also changing their jumper. I've heard its because the kdfl has made it heritage round or something like that, so maybe all clubs are doing the same

What are Avenel going to be wearing?

 

[dwyane WADE show]

We are wearing red and white vertical striped jumpers, as in some of our old team photos hanging on the wall from the early 1900s were wearing them

 

[jayco13]

Yeah for that round 7 May 28th Avenel are also changing their jumper. I've heard its because the kdfl has made it heritage round or something like that, so maybe all clubs are doing the same

god i hope not coz rushy was originally collingwood colors... no one wants to wear that
and are the league gonna pay for all the jumpers that the clubs will need... doubt it

 

[The Harry Factor]

I agree completely with what you're saying. Unfortunately a lot of people play football for the wrong reasons.

From my experience a lot of major league reserves players seem to forget they are only reserves players. I'm not talking about fringe senior players either, but run-of-the-mill reserves players who are putting price tags on themselves, when in reality they're borderline KDL senior footballers at best (in a lot of cases they want to tell their mates they're on X amount a game).

There is also the argument that if a club is silly enough to offer that kind of money then it's the club's fault. Unfortunately some district clubs don't really do much research into the calibre of players they throw money at; which unfortunately leads to the scenario above.

Personally I think it is the responsibility of the club to think about who they pay and what a player can do for their club.

Agree with this. Unfortunately clubs see recruiting outside players as essential to remaining or becoming competitive in their league. And until all clubs agree to curb this practice the status quo will be maintained.

One of the biggest downsides to this type of recruiting is once these players make their way onto a list they tend to keep their place in the seniors side whether they deserve it or not. It takes a brave coach to drop a paid player to the magoos, so usually they stay in the ones at the expense of someone that deserves to be there.

 

[John Carrot]

G’day fellow KDFNL Punters..
At my age I sleep like a baby – four hours at a time to then awake to go to the loo!
So that is why I write at this time.

Just had a read of some of the replies from my Satd’y night post which has got some responses going.
Some complimentary .. some insulting ..some backhanded compliments like, for instance Dermie did on Yates in the 1989 Grand Final.

Many of you younger blokes reckon I live in the attitude of the sixties.
My points below belie that.

But I’ll be back to flog the banner that we don’t stick our head further into our own orifice and watch district footy morph into supporting major league seconds!! As the AFCL wants .. with $1.25 Bm support from the AFL!

Have a read of my payment schemes further below.

Cheers John Carrot

p.s. Durum Wheat. No not a Longwood Redlegs recruit! Pasta – the football player’s breakfast. All have it for breakfast cos of the energy in the carbs and it is low GI and slow release. So don’t pay for brand names .. it’s all made from the same stuff!

I have footy memorbillia, a photo from the 60’s which I’ll sell in 10 years for my retirement.

A smiling Teddy Whitten in 1963 eating steak, bacon and eggs with toast at 10.00 a.m. in the morning before the big game at 2 o’clock at the Western Oval! Plenty of protein and fat for muscle-building but no carbs effective on match day.
The Vegie man says get into the pasta on Frid’y night – Satd’y morn .. don’t drink beer the night before and for Cripes sake don’t watch Frid’y night footy – but how many times have you seen DISTRICT footballers switch play to kick across goal in the backline?
P.p.s. Happy Birth last Thursday, Taylor Joseph Hamill 8.7lbs. Signed up at Centre Half Back for the Leggers from 2027! Brother for future Redlegs midfielder Aaron! From Great uncle John Carrot. Good love to Jaime and Gerard.

As posted before on Big Footy .. without $9.95 Postage and Handling...!
Work with sponsors ..
~ Attract players with the promise of accommodation – be it billeting a couple of travellers, a family for two days at a hotel/motel for the price of one person one night.
~ Meals at half price for local and all footballers, or a family for one!
~ Get a local petrol station to work with 20% off for travellers.
~ Pay everyone in the seniors $50 a WIN ... not a game.
~ Pay the Twos a $10 drink/food card a WIN .. not a loss

That night have an awards presentation which is transparent and truly goes to the best players of the Ones and Twos. Not as decided by some leaders of the past to share the prizes around.
This last point may employ more supporters to come to training and match day to become more involved.
Not like the 2010, $800 a game to an Underpants mercenary who is now getting more bucks back in metropolitan footy.” Bejeepers Beazley! I’ll be back”, said the Carrotnator!

 

[Blackout]

As posted before on Big Footy .. without $9.95 Postage and Handling...!
Work with sponsors ..
~ Attract players with the promise of accommodation – be it billeting a couple of travellers, a family for two days at a hotel/motel for the price of one person one night.
~ Meals at half price for local and all footballers, or a family for one!
~ Get a local petrol station to work with 20% off for travellers.
~ Pay everyone in the seniors $50 a WIN ... not a game.
~ Pay the Twos a $10 drink/food card a WIN .. not a loss

That night have an awards presentation which is transparent and truly goes to the best players of the Ones and Twos. Not as decided by some leaders of the past to share the prizes around.
This last point may employ more supporters to come to training and match day to become more involved.

It's a nice idea in theory, however I could see a club having a hard time becoming successful with a philosophy like that. It would be hard to attract players to a new club when you're offering them $50 a game plus expenses. Particularly when they would have to make it into the best half a dozen players to get a little bit more. It may be the fairest way to run a club, however I can't seeing it be the most effective.

Then you have to consider the reality that some people really do just want money for nothing.

 

[Joe Mama]

god i hope not coz rushy was originally collingwood colors... no one wants to wear that
and are the league gonna pay for all the jumpers that the clubs will need... doubt it

You would think that Avenel would have to pay for those jumpers, and considering that they're around $60 a pop (depending on what you get, although I have seen jumpers go for less than that on the Footy Graphic Design page for $45), they would likely be selling or auctioning off those jumpers after the game (after being washed and cleaned of course).

I wanted to do this for Murchison's 125th, but it was kyboshed, which is a shame because our original uniform was black & white stripes with a green sash (which would've looked interesting).

I reckon, going by the description, the jumper Avenel's going to wear will look like that Sydney Swans jumper they wore against Carlton last week (which didn't look bad, especially with the hooped socks), like Where's Wally's jumper .

Personally Avenel should go back to the hooped socks (like the ones that the Swans are starting to wear), because I reckon it looks better with your uniform, and it doesn't clash (and provides a better contrast) colour wise with the socks worn by Tally, Longwood & Violet Town.

 

[dwyane WADE show]

You would think that Avenel would have to pay for those jumpers, and considering that they're around $60 a pop (depending on what you get, although I have seen jumpers go for less than that on the Footy Graphic Design page for $45), they would likely be selling or auctioning off those jumpers after the game (after being washed and cleaned of course).

I wanted to do this for Murchison's 125th, but it was kyboshed, which is a shame because our original uniform was black & white stripes with a green sash (which would've looked interesting).

I reckon, going by the description, the jumper Avenel's going to wear will look like that Sydney Swans jumper they wore against Carlton last week (which didn't look bad, especially with the hooped socks), like Where's Wally's jumper .

Personally Avenel should go back to the hooped socks (like the ones that the Swans are starting to wear), because I reckon it looks better with your uniform, and it doesn't clash (and provides a better contrast) colour wise with the socks worn by Tally, Longwood & Violet Town.

Na our jumpers will be vertical striped mate, like north melbourne or collingwood except red and white for that one off game. But i agree with ya about us going back to the hooped socks...a few of us senior players have already put it to our committee as in the old photos from the 70s and 80s look heaps better too

 

[Joe Mama]

Ah right, well that (Red vertical stripes) would look a lot better than horizontal red hoops (Like Where's Wally ), and I hope that hooped socks thing goes ahead for 2012, because Avenel wore that uniform when you were at your strongest (Late 70's-Early 80's).

 

[Joeyboy]

Na our jumpers will be vertical striped mate, like north melbourne or collingwood except red and white for that one off game. But i agree with ya about us going back to the hooped socks...a few of us senior players have already put it to our committee as in the old photos from the 70s and 80s look heaps better too

Agree Goody, i reckon the hoops look heaps better

 

[up there cazaly]

Agree Goody, i reckon the hoops look heaps better

I see the nagambie player only got three weeks for admitting he struck the lanky player in the head and that he ran off the bench at time to do this effectively meaning nagambie had 19 men on the ground at the time ! Seems like another example of our tribunal failing to deter these types of acts happening again in our league.

 

[John Carrot]

It's a nice idea in theory, however I could see a club having a hard time becoming successful with a philosophy like that. It would be hard to attract players to a new club when you're offering them $50 a game plus expenses. Particularly when they would have to make it into the best half a dozen players to get a little bit more. It may be the fairest way to run a club, however I can't seeing it be the most effective.

Then you have to consider the reality that some people really do just want money for nothing.

G’day Blackout
Bloody interesting points of yours I’ll cover soon .. but this little bit of history might also give some perspective to yourself and Tav Perry.
After being Avenel-Longwood for ten years from 1960; without footy at Longwood’s Redlegs Stadium, the Redlegs re-formed in 1970. At 19 I was the first secretary with Keith Patton (22 years) as Pres.
And Nev Trewin from Avenel as coach. That was 41 years ago.
‘Til 1976 we had had a preliminary final, a runner-up grand final and in ’76 lost the first semi final to Slimbo’s Benalla All Blacks.
For our 1977 year (four farmers and a hotel owner); business men - formed a coterie outside of the footy committee (.. of which I was footy club secretary .. the Club paying nothing, as we did!) to fund “travelling costs” to get local kids who had gone to Melbourne to come back with mates. Mind you, different days to today and at my age then, as Club Secretary, I had to turn a blind eye to the work of the coterie!!
I wonder if the Australian Tax Office would do the same nowadays?
As well, we had a sixties VFL star (Footscray’s Merv Hobbs ..42 years old then) who had bought land locally, ready to play his last ever season with his mate and younger brother to join in. Legendary Longwood President Ian Chisa Hamilton; together with his wife Jean, turned their homestead into the Redlegs Motel.
We won the flag of 77 by defeating the Benalla All Blacks by 10 goals .. sorry Slim18! (I had $100 at even money Hank .. take betting out of local footy mate!).
That year. One local in Melbourne drove to all home and away games each week from Melbourne, so he got paid “travelling” by the outside coterie.
One mate in the car (a top forward) also got his “travelling expense” covered by the coterie, even tho’ he was with the old mate in the same car! Hey .. a top centre half-forward .. eh? It’s ok .. isn’t it?
The other passenger just brought his own grog and drank it in the car until he said, “I can play in this country footy – but I want $20 travelling expenses too”!! And he got it!!
1977 .. eh! First year of the VFL televising the Grand Final live and in colour. Co-incidentally, just like last year 2010, a tie with a replay, (ker-ching!).
How much has this TV money filtered down over the years to the attitude of 2011 players now expecting Big $$$$ to play DISTRICT footy.
One final point for 2011 is that in ’77 I was still co-ordinating the votes of the random/valid 6 guys given a vote card each match day for the top 8 awards at presentation that night .. Club Prizes.
Those 35 odd years ago I discovered the “last quarter syndrome”!
You would have a top recruit in an even game doing bludging nothing all day! Cos he was being paid by the outside coterie.
In the last quarter he would earn his keep by kicking 4-5 goals to win the game and all voters would award him BoG and the main money from the Club .. at the expense of the local bloke champion at centre half-back who was unrecognised for his defence all day! As Graham Kennedy would say in those days ... PHwarkinwhat!!
In 2011, I still do vote cards and have always rated players out of ten points, quarter by quarter. Add ‘em up at the end and there are your top players .. transparent and no “Last Quarter Syndrome” at all!
Tav I’ve been there and done that .. but what does Joe Mama say quoting George Bush .. “Is our children learning?”
Cheers
John Carrot
p.s.
Good point Blackout –
“It may be the fairest way to run a club, ( sponsors and transparent awards on the day) however I can't seeing it be the most effective.
Then you have to consider the reality that some people really do just want ’money for nothing’.”
And the chicks for free? Well said Blackout!

 

[T.Perry]

Hey John,

Interesting story mate. I guess my post started this foray into a subject that's been flogged to death. I wasn't having a personal attack on you, more the fact that you constantly bring up how much you loathe 'mercenary' district footballers.

I don't really understand your above post - is it right that when you were paying players you were playing finals? I understand your point about the gun local CHB who plays his heart out for 4 quarters each week, but I'd love to get his opinion on having someone in the side who was capable of kicking 4-5 goals a quarter! I bet he'd prefer the club spent money on helping his side win..

I've no doubt you do an insurmountable of work for the Longwood FC and wasn't meaning to imply that you don't. From a personal point of view, I just think you've flogged the issue of district footballers playing for money to death and would prefer to read posts on match updates from Longwood, how the club is planning on moving forward, potential recruits, good news stories about young local talent etc.. Of course, you can write about whatever you want, but in a forum where we're all entitled to our opinions I was just giving you my opinion.

Hopefully catch you at the next Rushy v Longwood match

 

[sparra]

And as another sideline to the money effects on grass roots football - surely the money spent on Greater Eastern Dubbo or more commonly known as SRF (Sheedy Retirement Fund) may be better spent on paying for all insurances, footballs and junior development in the areas where football first began, then succeeded and now in a lot of cases is struggling.

That big fat bull necked prick in charge of the AFL will in years to come have a lot to answer to.

 

[Harro17]

Any interesting results from the round????

 

[BODZY#32]

Any interesting results from the round????

Avenel 6.4.40 lost to Murch 25.13.163
Girgarre 1.4.10 lost to Rushy 31.16.202
Lanky 31.27.213 beat Ardy 4.3.27
Merrigum 3.6.24 lost to Nag 28.21.189
Stanhope 15.13.103 beat Longwood 9.7.61

Stanhope only winning by 6 goals and 6 behinds on their home ground against Longwood. That seems a bit interesting....

Hank or Vege man got a report of the match? Stanhope rest a few sorer blokes and take the game a bit easy or have Longwood improved immensely and taken it right up to a top 3 team?

VT play Undera @ VT tomorrow for our first Sunday match out of 3 for the year. Both of us probably playing at a similar level at the moment but with Undera having had the harder draw too date, they're sitting a little lower on the ladder. Should be a cracker of a match in both the 2nds and 1sts, so come one, come all and have yourself and a carload a nice little Sunday session at VT...

 

[hank1]

NO
All as expected, Longwood only a goal down against Stanhope at 3/4 time, ended up going down by 7 goals

 

[hank1]

Avenel 6.4.40 lost to Murch 25.13.163
Girgarre 1.4.10 lost to Rushy 31.16.202
Lanky 31.27.213 beat Ardy 4.3.27
Merrigum 3.6.24 lost to Nag 28.21.189
Stanhope 15.13.103 beat Longwood 9.7.61

Stanhope only winning by 6 goals and 6 behinds on their home ground against Longwood. That seems a bit interesting....

Hank or Vege man got a report of the match? Stanhope rest a few sorer blokes and take the game a bit easy or have Longwood improved immensely and taken it right up to a top 3 team?

VT play Undera @ VT tomorrow for our first Sunday match out of 3 for the year. Both of us probably playing at a similar level at the moment but with Undera having had the harder draw too date, they're sitting a little lower on the ladder. Should be a cracker of a match in both the 2nds and 1sts, so come one, come all and have yourself and a carload a nice little Sunday session at VT...

Just didnt come to play, took it too easy, Longwood were excellent with there intensity and contested footy, they were up and about and celebrating every goal. Lowe, Gray, O'Reilly, Armstrong, Ferrari all back after the bye.

 

[Blackout]

Thrashings are becoming a bit too common this year for my liking...

 

[Joe Mama]

That tends to happen when you have a 13 team competition, but your right all of us here would like it to be a bit more even.

Although there are around 7-8 teams that are pretty good (Lancaster, Violet Town, Stanhope, Undera, Rushworth, Murchison, Tallygaroopna & Nagambie), teams from 9-13 (Avenel, Longwood, Merrigum, Girgarre & Ardmona) really fall away, but at least there are more competitive teams than most seasons, despite recent results.

Anyway, it seems that Stanhope were lucky they played a bad game against Longwood (they kept Murch in the game last week through bad kicking), because according to what Hank posted here, you would think that a Nagambie or a Tally would have beaten them, but great effort from Longwood though, after being un-competitive against Murch at home, to come back and do that is a credit to Ricky Shiner and his players, and you would think that they would be favourites to beat Avenel next week, if recent form is any guide.

As far as the Murch/Avenel game went, well Murch were good, but you sensed that by the end they were going through the motions a bit, but all and all it was a good effort, especially from Nick Airs & Matt Hodgetts (Our coach, Willo went O.K as well, and will get better up forward), but really we can only guage how good we are when we play the best, and that for now is Lancaster (Murch play them in a fortnight, away), and Violet Town in three weeks time (where I think we have a big chance of causing an upset).

Anyway, as far as tomorrow's game goes, I'm going to favour Violet Town at home in a close one.