List Mgmt. Keep/Cut/Trade/Upgrade - Playing list manager 2018

[Maggsy]

Keep / Cut / Trade / Upgrade?

I'd be very interested to hear who people think at the end of the year we should Keep/Upgrade who we should Cut and who we should Trade.

To keep it simple, maybe just mention the players you think we should trade/cut/upgrade and we'll all assume the rest are Keep. But maybe add some rationale.

FOR ME:

Cut -
Paul Hunter(R) - Has had chances, I can't see him ever being good enough to command a spot.
Curtly Hampton - Retired.
Harry Dear - Same as Hunter, Has had chances - I can't see him ever being good enough to command a spot.
Sam Gibson - Was worth a try, but the experiment hasn't worked out, I'd move him.

Trade -
Cam Ellis-Yolmen - I love him as a bloke and he has played some good footy this year, BUT is he a good enough midfielder to win a flag? I don't think so. Should have some currency, I'd move him on.
David Mackay - Will likely never happen, but will start 2019 aged 30 and with 200 games under his belt and may appeal to a team in VIC seeking some experience and 'run'.
Rory Atkins - Plays 1 and 4 good games and the other 3 are putrid. Would have good currency, I'd move him in order to try and get another pick in the top 30-35 this year.
Jake Kelly - I'm on the fence about Jake. Looks solid sometimes but I don't know if I've ever see him kick the ball more than 30m and with Laird, Doedee, Smith, Talia, Keath, Hartigan, Cheney etc - I just don't see a spot for him, again has currency.
Josh Jenkins - The time is right. Aged 29, has 2-3 solid seasons left in him which will appeal to alot of clubs, but with Mcgovern, Fogarty, Walker and Lynch, the forward line is too top heavy with JJ. I'd move him while we can. Could see North nabbing him as a replacement Waite.

Upgrade -
Lachlan Murphy - No brainer here.

Keep -
Everyone else.

A healthy turnover of players clearing spots for new blood, giving opportunities for young players coming through whilst also freeing up some much needed cap space.


Current list below with Name / Games / Age / Position - (sorted oldest-youngest) (Rookies in red)

Name Games Age Position
Gibson,Sam 135 32yr 1mth Midfield
Betts, Eddie 290 31yr 7mth Forward
Douglas, Richard 234 31yr 5mth Midfield
Jacobs, Sam 191 30yr 3mth Ruck
Jenkins, Josh 131 29yr 5mth Forward
Gibbs, Bryce 248 29yr 4mth Midfield
Otten, Andy 104 29yr 2mth Defender/Forward
MacKay, David 198 29yr 11mth Defender/Midfield
Sloane, Rory 173 28yr 4mth Midfield
Walker, Taylor 164 28yr 2mth Forward
Cheney, Kyle 82 28yr 10mth Defender
Lynch, Tom 118 27yr 10mth Forward
Talia, Daniel 162 26yr 9mth Defender
Hartigan, Kyle 82 26yr 8mth Defender
Smith, Brodie 143 26yr 6mth Defender
Seedsman, Paul 85 26yr 6mth Defender/Midfield
Keath, Alex 8 26yr 6mth Defender
Greenwood, Hugh 32 26yr 4mth Midfield
Ellis-Yolmen, Cameron 26 25yr 5mth Midfield
Hunter, Paul (R) 0 25yr 5mth Ruck
Hampton, Curtly 63 25yr 4mth Midfield
Brown, Luke 130 25yr 10mth Defender
Laird, Rory 116 24yr 6mth Defender
Crouch, Brad 61 24yr 6mth Midfield
Atkins, Rory 72 24yr Midfield
McGovern, Mitch 45 23yr 9mth Forward
Wilson, Patrick (R) 1 23yr 7mth Midfield/Forward
Kelly, Jake 50 23yr 6mth Defender
Crouch, Matt 85 23yr 3mth Midfield
Knight, Riley 35 23yr 3mth Forward
O'Brien, Reilly 2 22yr 11mth Ruck
Doedee, Tom 17 21yr 4mth Defender
Davis, Ben 0 21yr 2mth Defender/Forward
Dear, Harry 0 21yr 11mth Defender/Forward
Gallucci, Jordan 12 20yr 2mth Midfield/Forward
Jarman, Ben (R) 0 20yr 2mth Forward
Himmelberg, Elliott 0 20yr 1mth Forward
Milera, Wayne 38 20yr 10mth Midfield/Defender
Poholke, Myles 9 20yr Midfield/Forward
Signorello, Matthew 0 19yr 8mth Midfield/Forward
Murphy, Lachlan (R) 8 19yr 7mth Defender/Forward
McPherson, Andrew 0 19yr 1mth Defender
Fogarty, Darcy 10 18yr 9mth Forward
Edwards, Jackson (R) 0 18yr 9mth Midfield

 

[Morning_Fog]

Talia isn’t 32 years old, is he?

 

[Cromulent]

Talia isn’t 32 years old, is he?

No. He also doesn't play midfield. Something is up with that table..

edit: He's actually in there twice..

 

[Maggsy]

No. He also doesn't play midfield. Something is up with that table..

edit: He's actually in there twice..

Hmmm hang on,. not sure why it's done that, he is in twice.. Gimme a minute - I'll fix

 

[thirtytwo]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Sam Gibson is not on that list anywhere?

 

[Maggsy]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Sam Gibson is not on that list anywhere?

Somehow I turned Sam Gibson into Daniel Talia Mach 2??? Fixed now.

 

[thirtytwo]

Somehow I turned Sam Gibson into Daniel Talia Mach 2??? Fixed now.

Suspected that was the case.

 

[Cromulent]

Agree with your cuts.

Doubt we'll trade too many on unless someone requests it though; especially Jenkins, who's mrs is pregnant, and are well established in Adelaide.

 

[Maggsy]

Agree with your cuts.

Doubt we'll trade too many on unless someone requests it though; especially Jenkins, who's mrs is pregnant, and are well established in Adelaide.

Fair call. I mean I like JJ, has been a really good servent of the club. But I just think with Fog coming through and McGovern and Walker best 22, IF we were ever going to move him on, now might be the time. Espescially if we somehow pull off a miracle and land Lukosius.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I’d have on the trade or cut table;

Dear - delist if no one shows interest
Atkins - trade bait
Kelly - trade bait
Mackay - trade or delist (i know... it’s a dream)
Hunter - delist
Wilson - delist or GCS
Hartigan - trade (I like Keath, more composed, more polish and just as competitive 1 v 1 and I hope we get Francis too)
Poholke - one more year
Sig - one more year
Otten - Sandfull captain/on field assistant coach - help teach the youngsters... he’s as slow as the queen Mary turning but has a great football brain imo
If McGovern wants to leave - massive overs or no deal.

I’ve given sig and poke 1 more year but at the same time can’t see where they fit in if we get three gun SA mids/forwards with our draft picks... and if we get Rankine as one of those... where does that leave Davis as he is another mid/small forward type?... really want to see Davis get a few games so if we go down this weekend he should be given a run in the last 5 games to show us what he’s got to offer, I think he’s got a shitload of talent and potential..

I’m hoping 1 or 2 of the lads I’ve listed can be used in a deal for Francis...

Edit: forgot gibson- delist

 

[Maggsy]

I’d have on the trade or cut table;

Dear - delist if no one shows interest
Atkins - trade bait
Kelly - trade bait
Mackay - trade or delist (i know... it’s a dream)
Hunter - delist
Wilson - delist or GCS
Hartigan - trade (I like Keath, more composed, more polish and just as competitive 1 v 1 and I hope we get Francis too)
Poholke - one more year
Sig - one more year
Otten - Sandfull captain/on field assistant coach - help teach the youngsters... he’s as slow as the queen Mary turning but has a great football brain imo
If McGovern wants to leave - massive overs or no deal.

I’ve given sig and poke 1 more year but at the same time can’t see where they fit in if we get three gun SA mids/forwards with our draft picks... and if we get Rankine as one of those... where does that leave Davis as he is another mid/small forward type?... really want to see Davis get a few games so if we go down this weekend he should be given a run in the last 5 games to show us what he’s got to offer, I think he’s got a shitload of talent and potential..

I’m hoping 1 or 2 of the lads I’ve listed can be used in a deal for Francis...

Some great points Clam, nothing above I disagree with. I'd personally rather put time and effort into Jarman / Edwards (leave them on Rookie lie) and move some of those fringe guys you mention.

 

[Carmo]

Didn't we have one of these threads already?

 

[thirtytwo]

Yep I agree with the cuts, but trading Atkins and JJ I’m unsure about and I am not a huge fan of either particularly JJ.

Rat has shown some absolute A class football at times, I have no doubt he could be a serious player.....but he cannot be allowed to only deliver on his terms, consistency in effort and competitiveness is his issue. No more gold, passes if his form drops off he gets dropped till he learns what is required of him consistently.

But I do think it’s best to remember that he was a very late pick, (due to sanctions thank you very much mister Trigg) who had a history of discipline and effort issues, but just the very fact of where he was taken in his draft and that he has progressed to become first 22 when in form speaks volumes of his talent.
We knew exactly what we were getting, a talented kid with issues, but if he can commit and let his talent guide him and not immaturity he has the potential to very important to our side.

JJ frustrates the hell out of me, he is soft at the physical contest......but he kicks goals regularly.
Will fog come in and match his output next year?
Also I believe the fella stayed with us for less than other clubs were offering, I’m not sure if forcefully trading a bloke out that has committed to his mates to stay and try to win a premiership together is that clever. We need everyone believing in this team and in what they can achieve together, JJ did his part in staying, we need to do ours in giving him another shot at a flag. We cannot bemoan players leaving and force a trade on a bloke who believes in the club, the coach and the players and wants to stay.....not this trade period as I firmly believe we are a real shot at winning this next year, even more so than last year. For the sake of team dynamics he stays with us next year.

If his form drops next year and fog looks the better option than sure drop him, if fog overtakes him next year than trade him then, he will know it’s in his best interests to go and so would the rest of the playing group.

 

[cmndstab]

I feel like I'm seeing a totally different player than everyone else with Atkins. I'm a big fan, albeit yes I admit he had a down patch earlier in the season.

Sure, he's not going to lay a bunch of crunching tackles or win many contested balls, but that's not his job. His job is to get the ball on the outside, find some space, and hit a target. And he's good at it. He gets around players well, wrong-foots them, etc, and hits targets. Yeah, occasionally he bites off more than he can chew but most of the time he gets it away well.

If we were trading him for pick 30ish I'd consider that a huge loss.


I wouldn't consider parting with Jenkins at this point for anything less than a first round pick, and I don't see too many clubs looking to give us one for him. He's a lot like Lever, much more valuable in our structure than he is to other sides. It's in the best interests of all parties for us to keep him.

 

[Morning_Fog]

Best 22 for 2018 and then I will work backwards.

B: Brown - Kieth - Doedee
HB: Milera - Talia - Laird
C: Smith - B Crouch - Sloane
HF: Lynch - Walker - Murphy
F: Betts - Jenkins - Greenwood
Ruck: Jacobs - M Crouch - B Gibbs

Interchange: Knight - Seedsman - Gallucci - Atkins

Keep: Poholke - Hartigan - Cheney - Douglas - Fogarty - Himmelberg - Signorello - McPherson - Davis - O'Brien - Edwards and Jarman (Rookie)

Rookie upgrade: Murphy

Trade: Kelly - MacKay (free agent) - CEY - McGovern (Only if we can get inside the top 3)

Delist: Dear - Wilson - Hunter -

Retire: Hampton, Gibson, Otten

2018 needs: a ruckman, a tall defender and a speedy half forward type.

Trade options: Kelly to Essendon for Francis - McGovern and our first round to St Kilda for pick 3 - CEY for a 4th round pick and MacKay won't warrent any compensation

 

[earlsta]

We can’t afford to get rid of Jenkins. Who’s going to chop out in the ruck when Jacobs goes to the bench? Keath?
We can’t play two ruckman in a game & Jacobs can’t play a full game in the ruck.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We can’t afford to get rid of Jenkins. Who’s going to chop out in the ruck when Jacobs goes to the bench? Keath?
We can’t play two ruckman in a game & Jacobs can’t play a full game in the ruck.

Have you been watching AFL football lately ? Richmond use Grigg and not many teams have a certified 2nd ruck

That's not a good enough reason , I feel it will be hard because he's committed and signed a contract but that is all

I do feel his form has been ok this year and has improved the little things but I also feel he will never fire in a prelim or GF type of game with high pressure and physicality

 

[Bicks]

Have you been watching AFL football lately ? Richmond use Grigg and not many teams have a certified 2nd ruck

That's not a good enough reason , I feel it will be hard because he's committed and signed a contract but that is all

I do feel his form has been ok this year and has improved the little things but I also feel he will never fire in a prelim or GF type of game with high pressure and physicality

Nup JJ stays until such time as Himmelberg has shown enough to replace him in his role [If Ever] or Fogarty comes on enough to rejig the Forward structure, I don't see that happening as soon as 2019.

 

[jirkago]

Best 22 for 2018 and then I will work backwards.

B: Brown - Kieth - Doedee
HB: Milera - Talia - Laird
C: Smith - B Crouch - Sloane
HF: Lynch - Walker - Murphy
F: Betts - Jenkins - Greenwood
Ruck: Jacobs - M Crouch - B Gibbs

Interchange: Knight - Seedsman - Gallucci - Atkins

Keep: Poholke - Hartigan - Cheney - Douglas - Fogarty - Himmelberg - Signorello - McPherson - Davis - O'Brien - Edwards and Jarman (Rookie)

Rookie upgrade: Murphy

Trade: Kelly - MacKay (free agent) - CEY - McGovern (Only if we can get inside the top 3)

Delist: Dear - Wilson - Hunter -

Retire: Hampton, Gibson, Otten

2018 needs: a ruckman, a tall defender and a speedy half forward type.

Trade options: Kelly to Essendon for Francis - McGovern and our first round to St Kilda for pick 3 - CEY for a 4th round pick and MacKay won't warrent any compensation

Surely McGovern is worth more then an upgrade??? He is at least a first rounder by himself.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Betts are off]

We can’t afford to get rid of Jenkins. Who’s going to chop out in the ruck when Jacobs goes to the bench? Keath?
We can’t play two ruckman in a game & Jacobs can’t play a full game in the ruck.

I had a thought the other day about that. Greenwood is 190cm, which happens to be the exact same height as Shaun Grigg who chops out for Richmond in the ruck.

Greenwood has noticeably longer arms and probably a bigger leap on him too. And he just seems to be excellent at high pointing the ball in marking contests which leads you to believe he would be pretty good at timing his jumps.

I wouldn't be against seeing him have run at it for a few 5 minute patches late in the quarter as an experiment!

 

[dogs105]

I feel like I'm seeing a totally different player than everyone else with Atkins. I'm a big fan, albeit yes I admit he had a down patch earlier in the season.

Sure, he's not going to lay a bunch of crunching tackles or win many contested balls, but that's not his job. His job is to get the ball on the outside, find some space, and hit a target. And he's good at it. He gets around players well, wrong-foots them, etc, and hits targets. Yeah, occasionally he bites off more than he can chew but most of the time he gets it away well.

If we were trading him for pick 30ish I'd consider that a huge loss.


I wouldn't consider parting with Jenkins at this point for anything less than a first round pick, and I don't see too many clubs looking to give us one for him. He's a lot like Lever, much more valuable in our structure than he is to other sides. It's in the best interests of all parties for us to keep him.

Plenty of Brownlow votes over last 2 years

 

[DJ75]

I feel like I'm seeing a totally different player than everyone else with Atkins. I'm a big fan, albeit yes I admit he had a down patch earlier in the season.

Sure, he's not going to lay a bunch of crunching tackles or win many contested balls, but that's not his job. His job is to get the ball on the outside, find some space, and hit a target. And he's good at it. He gets around players well, wrong-foots them, etc, and hits targets. Yeah, occasionally he bites off more than he can chew but most of the time he gets it away well.

If we were trading him for pick 30ish I'd consider that a huge loss.


I wouldn't consider parting with Jenkins at this point for anything less than a first round pick, and I don't see too many clubs looking to give us one for him. He's a lot like Lever, much more valuable in our structure than he is to other sides. It's in the best interests of all parties for us to keep him.

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true. Every player has to be willing to lay tackles and keep their head over the ball. You are only as strong as your weakest link...

 

[dogs105]

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true. Every player has to be willing to lay tackles and keep their head over the ball. You are only as strong as your weakest link...

Tony Modra laid 62 tackles.

In his career.

 

[Scorpus]

Tony Modra laid 62 tackles.

In his career.

Different era though

 

[dogs105]

Different era though

Okay, the Michael Hurley, Jeremy McGovern, Daniel Menzel, Tom McDonald and Michael Johnson all have far less tackles than Rat, but I'd still like them in my team because they do other things well .
Dusty Martin has produced an average of 1 tackle per 10 games more than Atkins this year, and he'd get a game for us.