Keith Pitt the lobby group for coal within government.

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Aristotle Pickett

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Keith Pitt amoungst others, seems to be the voice of the coal lobby within the coalition.
Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government especially when it is costing the tax payer money to support this antiquated and wastful technology?
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
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Keith Pitt amoungst others, seems to be the voice of the coal lobby within the coalition.
Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government especially when it is costing the tax payer money to support this antiquated and wastful technology?
your right

all political parties based on lobby groups should be wound up immediate
all politicians associated with lobby groups should resign immediately

I support you on this!
 

Original Moody Blue

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Keith Pitt amoungst others, seems to be the voice of the coal lobby within the coalition.
Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government especially when it is costing the tax payer money to support this antiquated and wastful technology?
How much of a subsidy does renewable energy receive? 3-5 billion per year nadclimbing. Wind & solar has no power storage mechanism and assuming all of the targets were met for renewable energy we would release millions of tons of Co2 from all the mining we would have to do to provide the materials for China to build wind farms and solar panels and send them back to us. We would end up polluting the earth with solar panels and wind towers as their life cycles are 15-20 years and most of them not recyclable.

Australia has 24 coal fired power stations, which is less than 2% of the world's total. We have enough coal to keep us going for a further 300 years. But instead we want to listen to the Europeans who talk a lot but do little in actually shutting down polluting industries, like their North Sea Gas & Oil fields. We will close it etc etc, but they never will. Why? $$$$$$. Why do you think Scotland wants to break away from the UK? That tells me they have no short term plan of shutting down oil & gas production.

Co2 capture and storage are very viable but the left refuses to address it.
 

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Aristotle Pickett

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How much of a subsidy does renewable energy receive? 3-5 billion per year nadclimbing. Wind & solar has no power storage mechanism and assuming all of the targets were met for renewable energy we would release millions of tons of Co2 from all the mining we would have to do to provide the materials for China to build wind farms and solar panels and send them back to us. We would end up polluting the earth with solar panels and wind towers as their life cycles are 15-20 years and most of them not recyclable.

Australia has 24 coal fired power stations, which is less than 2% of the world's total. We have enough coal to keep us going for a further 300 years. But instead we want to listen to the Europeans who talk a lot but do little in actually shutting down polluting industries, like their North Sea Gas & Oil fields. We will close it etc etc, but they never will. Why? $$$$$$. Why do you think Scotland wants to break away from the UK? That tells me they have no short term plan of shutting down oil & gas production.

Co2 capture and storage are very viable but the left refuses to address it.
Absolute rubbish with misleading 'facts'.
'We only use 2% so what's the big deal?' is a disgusting argument that basically asserts that Australia is special and doesn't need to contribute.
It's not 2% anyway, it's more and you can add our massive coal exports.
You sound like someone from a coal lobby group.
Carbon capture is unproved bs technology.
 

Theseventhhamster

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Also it's proven to be a giant ******* lol in regards to energy generation. Takes ~a third of the plant's output to run and then you have to move and store the sh*t. At ~$100 a barrel of oil it's sorta viable if you can find a place nearby where you can use it to push out the oil from the ground. Obviously though if you're doing that you're not saving any emissions so it's nothing but a stupid subsidy for fossil fuel.

It's just stealing money from taxpayers.
 

Pie eyed

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Keith Pitt amoungst others, seems to be the voice of the coal lobby within the coalition.
Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government especially when it is costing the tax payer money to support this antiquated and wastful technology?
NO. He should be hung.
Faster the better.
Along with Joyce and Fraser the water thief.
 

Power Raid

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Absolute rubbish with misleading 'facts'.
'We only use 2% so what's the big deal?' is a disgusting argument that basically asserts that Australia is special and doesn't need to contribute.
It's not 2% anyway, it's more and you can add our massive coal exports.
You sound like someone from a coal lobby group.
Carbon capture is unproved bs technology.
your math and facts are in question

if we have 24 coal power stations and there are 4,000 coal power stations......that's 0.6%

you then bang on about "use 2%"........I'm assuming you mean consume coal given we use 130mT and the world uses 8.5Bt which is 1.5%

CCS is proven https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...3E21YZttMPFit7NZJEbAKv&cshid=1625051105156260

I'm pro moving away from coal but please stick with the facts
 

Aristotle Pickett

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your math and facts are in question

if we have 24 coal power stations and there are 4,000 coal power stations......that's 0.6%

you then bang on about "use 2%"........I'm assuming you mean consume coal given we use 130mT and the world uses 8.5Bt which is 1.5%

CCS is proven https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...3E21YZttMPFit7NZJEbAKv&cshid=1625051105156260

I'm pro moving away from coal but please stick with the facts
Australia are international coal bastards who are wasting tax payers money propping up coal in a climate emergency and ignoring cheaper renewable energy.
Stop coming up with excuses for that.
 

Power Raid

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Australia are international coal bastards who are wasting tax payers money propping up coal in a climate emergency and ignoring cheaper renewable energy.
Stop coming up with excuses for that.
who needs excuses when there is are reasons.

Please name one jurisdiction on the planet that has a renewable strategy that has delivered 15-70g CO2 per kwh, without relying upon hydro or nuclear? Further those with clean energy who achieved it in the 1980s (at 14-70) have increased their CO2 output per kwh on the introduction of renewables.

So why do you advocate following failed power generation models, in a climate emergency, when the only solution is clear and obvious?


If the climate emergency is not an emergency, when does it become an emergency? How long do we give renewables a chance to be effective in reducing CO2?



Further electricity is 18% of the problem with 32% being transport and 50% being heat. If renewables are at 30% of 18% and ineffective at that level, then how do we move from 6% to 100% and be effective? Again the answer is clear!
 

Taylor

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your right

all political parties based on lobby groups should be wound up immediate
all politicians associated with lobby groups should resign immediately

I support you on this!
Is this a subtle nod to the fact the ALP is a union coalition that is heavily lobbied by them to promote conditions for their member's interests?

That the standard for whether lobby groups or other groups of power being acceptable to be involved in government is entirely down to whether their objectives are agreed with or not?

But I agree with you that power and money having a direct line to politicians is anti-democratic and makes our elections a rubber stamp for an oligarchy deciding what's best for us. Deciding what issues we will pretend to be fighting over at the election while they've secured their policy in the background without fanfare.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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I also note you didn't like facs
No your throwing a random numbers at me that don't prove anything. You sound like a coal lobby spokesman.
It's a joke that you think we can just keep burning coal .
Maybe you could listen what the climate scientists say instead of the coal lobby. That's if you respect science and not BS.
 

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Original Moody Blue

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Absolute rubbish with misleading 'facts'.
'We only use 2% so what's the big deal?' is a disgusting argument that basically asserts that Australia is special and doesn't need to contribute.
It's not 2% anyway, it's more and you can add our massive coal exports.
You sound like someone from a coal lobby group.
Carbon capture is unproved bs technology.
Oh so our bulls*it is unacceptable, but Europe's is fine. Whether you like it or not, it is a fact that we have 24 coal powered stations, whereas China has over 1200 and growing.

It is a fact that our 24 coal powered stations represent less than 2% of the planet's total coal stations. All of a sudden you demand we tell poor Third World countries that they do not have the right to develop their energy grid with coal, because little Prince's like you do not like it. You have been the beneficiary of coal, gas iron ore, uranium and mining in general, but how dare these little grubby foreigners demand the same thing.
What is next? We stop exporting meat and food products, valuable minerals because that contributes to climate change? Let the rest of the world starve because little Prince's like you don't like it?

1: If the little prince got his wish and we became totally carbon neutral tomorrow, it would still take 900 years for the current Co2 levels to dissipate. The little Prince's of the world never tell you this fact. It is always conveniently omitted from any discussion. I wonder why??

2: The current global population is 8 billion, with 1.3b in China, 1.2b in Africa, 1.8b in India, Pakistan & Bangladesh (India pre-1948) and South America 460m. Nearly 5/8 of the population who are demanding energy now, not fantasies about solar and wind that have no storage capacity and these countries that cannot simply afford it. By 2050, the global population will be 10 billion and climbing. This is not sustainable on any scale, but it is never addressed.

I might sound like someone from the coal lobby, but I live in the real world as do most Australians. You want us to completely destroy our economy based on fairy tales of thousands of renewable jobs. Even David Spears on the Insiders program last Sunday morning grilled Labor's Chris Bowen about the promises and policies of Labor and tripped him up so often it was embarrassing. Coal miners lose their jobs but will get new jobs in the new economy. That is a blatant lie. Clinton was spewing this rubbish in the 90's as millions of Americans lost their jobs offshore. There was no training or rebuilding, just left out to wither and die until Trump came along. The lefties could not understand how Trump became popular. He brought jobs back to the US or appeared to, and this resonated well with ordinary folk, but not with the little Prince's. Lefties are very good at discarding generations of workers so little Prince's can feel satisfied.

Even a devout lefty, Michael Moore has called Bulldust on all of this. The lefties and little Prince's were outraged. His documentary also sadly demonstrates how ignorant people are about renewable's and just follow the line so as to be popular.
If you want to save the planet, we need to halve the population. China is calling for its population to get larger, but Australia is an irresponsible and selfish country. Well, I call bulldust on that and have no doubt the electorate will do the same when Labor tries to sneak its policies through the next election. Shorten was caught out time and again with his lies, and the people saw right through him.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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Oh so our bulls*it is unacceptable, but Europe's is fine. Whether you like it or not, it is a fact that we have 24 coal powered stations, whereas China has over 1200 and growing.

It is a fact that our 24 coal powered stations represent less than 2% of the planet's total coal stations. All of a sudden you demand we tell poor Third World countries that they do not have the right to develop their energy grid with coal, because little Prince's like you do not like it. You have been the beneficiary of coal, gas iron ore, uranium and mining in general, but how dare these little grubby foreigners demand the same thing.
What is next? We stop exporting meat and food products, valuable minerals because that contributes to climate change? Let the rest of the world starve because little Prince's like you don't like it?

1: If the little prince got his wish and we became totally carbon neutral tomorrow, it would still take 900 years for the current Co2 levels to dissipate. The little Prince's of the world never tell you this fact. It is always conveniently omitted from any discussion. I wonder why??

2: The current global population is 8 billion, with 1.3b in China, 1.2b in Africa, 1.8b in India, Pakistan & Bangladesh (India pre-1948) and South America 460m. Nearly 5/8 of the population who are demanding energy now, not fantasies about solar and wind that have no storage capacity and these countries that cannot simply afford it. By 2050, the global population will be 10 billion and climbing. This is not sustainable on any scale, but it is never addressed.

I might sound like someone from the coal lobby, but I live in the real world as do most Australians. You want us to completely destroy our economy based on fairy tales of thousands of renewable jobs. Even David Spears on the Insiders program last Sunday morning grilled Labor's Chris Bowen about the promises and policies of Labor and tripped him up so often it was embarrassing. Coal miners lose their jobs but will get new jobs in the new economy. That is a blatant lie. Clinton was spewing this rubbish in the 90's as millions of Americans lost their jobs offshore. There was no training or rebuilding, just left out to wither and die until Trump came along. The lefties could not understand how Trump became popular. He brought jobs back to the US or appeared to, and this resonated well with ordinary folk, but not with the little Prince's. Lefties are very good at discarding generations of workers so little Prince's can feel satisfied.

Even a devout lefty, Michael Moore has called Bulldust on all of this. The lefties and little Prince's were outraged. His documentary also sadly demonstrates how ignorant people are about renewable's and just follow the line so as to be popular.
If you want to save the planet, we need to halve the population. China is calling for its population to get larger, but Australia is an irresponsible and selfish country. Well, I call bulldust on that and have no doubt the electorate will do the same when Labor tries to sneak its policies through the next election. Shorten was caught out time and again with his lies, and the people saw right through him.
Stop this ridiculous coal lobby influenced line of argument.
What's your problem with transitioning to renewable energy? Got coal investments ?
You like 2 billion native animals getting burnt alive in bushfires so a few billionaires can get richer?
What a farce your argument is.
 

Taylor

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Stop this ridiculous coal lobby influenced line of argument.
What's your problem with transitioning to renewable energy? Got coal investments ?
You like 2 billion native animals getting burnt alive in bushfires so a few billionaires can get richer?
What a farce your argument is.
You actually haven't made an argument here at all.

I'll wait for your PR handlers to issue you the next talking points.

See how that isn't advancing the conversation at all to accuse everyone who presents a different position as being bad people associated with bad things and to absolve you of having to discuss anything they actually said.
 

Gough

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You actually haven't made an argument here at all.

I'll wait for your PR handlers to issue you the next talking points.

See how that isn't advancing the conversation at all to accuse everyone who presents a different position as being bad people associated with bad things and to absolve you of having to discuss anything they actually said.
The arguement has been made, plenty of times and by people who know far more than you or I. If we are to avoid catastrophic climate change, fossil fuels must be left in the ground. Not difficult to understand.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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You actually haven't made an argument here at all.

I'll wait for your PR handlers to issue you the next talking points.

See how that isn't advancing the conversation at all to accuse everyone who presents a different position as being bad people associated with bad things and to absolve you of having to discuss anything they actually said.
It's not a different opinion, it's misleading and incorrect stats.
This method of throwing a few stats around to win an argument is disingenuous.
It's only Keith Pitt and other coal lobbiest liars that believe these ridiculous arguments..
You and I know that the argument of ' but,but we don't use much coal compared to China' is a spurious argument only used by people with a vested interest in making money from coal.
Renewables are cheaper and the transition is being held up by coal lobby stooges. These people are making Australia an International pariah and putting us behind the rest of the world and I include in that the Labor coal unions and the Labor party.
What's even more baffling is regular people going into bat with the coal lobby purely because their political party has duped them.
I don't have to reply with pages of statistics for my argument, the facts are 1/ Australia has the world's 2nd worst per capita carbon emissions IN THE WORLD, Australia is one of the world's BIGGEST EXPORTERS OF FOSSIL FUELS.
Tell me why you support coal over renewable alternatives ?
 

Kwality

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Keith Pitt amoungst others, seems to be the voice of the coal lobby within the coalition.
Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government especially when it is costing the tax payer money to support this antiquated and wastful technology?
Some bloke advocating for the workers in his electorate, a Nat doing it because the traditional workers party has gone missing ...
Given the proliferation of coal burning power stations under construction in the developing world, to leave the most efficent coal in ground would be virtue signalling at best.

Why would China, India, Vietnam etc be building coal burners when recyclables are cheaper ? Why indeed, file under 'pull the other leg'.
Ari, next time someone tells you renewables are cheaper in Aus, ask yourself how a country can import our coal & choose it over renewables built in their own backyard.
 

Taylor

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The arguement has been made, plenty of times and by people who know far more than you or I. If we are to avoid catastrophic climate change, fossil fuels must be left in the ground. Not difficult to understand.
I agree, now let's address how this discussion goes currently:

There's a problem.
How do we fix it?
Oh you're a denier, you're in it for the money!
How do we fix it in a way that doesn't lead to rampant human suffering?
Oh you're a denier and you don't care about people because if you did you'd worry about those who will suffer because of climate change!!

The how is and has always been the only real issue for debate here.

It's not a different opinion, it's misleading and incorrect stats.
This method of throwing a few stats around to win an argument is disingenuous.
It's only Keith Pitt and other coal lobbiest liars that believe these ridiculous arguments..
You and I know that the argument of ' but,but we don't use much coal compared to China' is a spurious argument only used by people with a vested interest in making money from coal.
Renewables are cheaper and the transition is being held up by coal lobby stooges. These people are making Australia an International pariah and putting us behind the rest of the world and I include in that the Labor coal unions and the Labor party.
What's even more baffling is regular people going into bat with the coal lobby purely because their political party has duped them.
I don't have to reply with pages of statistics for my argument, the facts are 1/ Australia has the world's 2nd worst per capita carbon emissions IN THE WORLD, Australia is one of the world's BIGGEST EXPORTERS OF FOSSIL FUELS.
Tell me why you support coal over renewable alternatives ?
Just as an example, if we want to use solar power or wind and completely remove the cost of building the panels and turbines and entirely write off the cost of production of the supply - it will cost $750 billion dollars for just Victoria to have a stable power supply from these sources alone. That's the cost of a single week of backup storage. Not including the cost of changes to the distribution grid to handle decentralised production and centralised backup.

So nuclear is both cleaner and cheaper and we also have a huge amount of that we could mine and export.

But that's not a suitable solution... because?
 

Aristotle Pickett

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I agree, now let's address how this discussion goes currently:

There's a problem.
How do we fix it?
Oh you're a denier, you're in it for the money!
How do we fix it in a way that doesn't lead to rampant human suffering?
Oh you're a denier and you don't care about people because if you did you'd worry about those who will suffer because of climate change!!

The how is and has always been the only real issue for debate here.



Just as an example, if we want to use solar power or wind and completely remove the cost of building the panels and turbines and entirely write off the cost of production of the supply - it will cost $750 billion dollars for just Victoria to have a stable power supply from these sources alone. That's the cost of a single week of backup storage. Not including the cost of changes to the distribution grid to handle decentralised production and centralised backup.

So nuclear is both cleaner and cheaper and we also have a huge amount of that we could mine and export.

But that's not a suitable solution... because?
Wrong, Nuclear is way,way more expensive and you have spent plutonium hanging around for 100's of years.
The only people pushing for this uneconomic plan are those industry groups who can pivot from coal to nuclear to continue to make enormous profits.
I would have thought liberal voters respected the adverse affect this would have on the budget.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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Some bloke advocating for the workers in his electorate, a Nat doing it because the traditional workers party has gone missing ...
Given the proliferation of coal burning power stations under construction in the developing world, to leave the most efficent coal in ground would be virtue signalling at best.

Why would China, India, Vietnam etc be building coal burners when recyclables are cheaper ? Why indeed, file under 'pull the other leg'.
Ari, next time someone tells you renewables are cheaper in Aus, ask yourself how a country can import our coal & choose it over renewables built in their own backyard.
Why do u keep comparing Australia to the developing world when Western countries are the ones that have put the most carbon in the atmosphere and developing countries use way less per capita than we do.
Do you think Western countries are superior or exceptional and that we don't have to do what it morally right?
You need to think of the economics and what it means for the budget not making fossil fuel dinosaurs richer.
Most of you guys gave been climate sceptics until recently so you don't have much credibility.
 

Gough

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I agree, now let's address how this discussion goes currently:

There's a problem.
How do we fix it?
Oh you're a denier, you're in it for the money!
How do we fix it in a way that doesn't lead to rampant human suffering?
Oh you're a denier and you don't care about people because if you did you'd worry about those who will suffer because of climate change!!

The how is and has always been the only real issue for debate here.
This is such a terrible argument when we're not even exploring the how. All we hear are portents of doom from fossil fuel apologists if Australia goes 100% renewable based on little more than their fervent imagination whereas as we know with 100% certainty what will happen if we keep digging up fossil fuels like we are.
 

Kwality

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Why do u keep comparing Australia to the developing world when Western countries are the ones that have put the most carbon in the atmosphere and developing countries use way less per capita than we do.
Do you think Western countries are superior or exceptional and that we don't have to do what it morally right?
You need to think of the economics and what it means for the budget not making fossil fuel dinosaurs richer.
Most of you guys gave been climate sceptics until recently so you don't have much credibility.
IF you are the slightest bit interested in the climate you would know China & India are relevant, Australia nah !!
You can try to spin that any way you like until you get to the bottom line, aka emissions.

As for you continuing the renewables are cheaper line .... its a good thing Mr Pitt is looking after his constituents, as is Joel Fitzgibbon, hell thats their job. They are 100% morally right.
Its well & good for elitists wanting to throw people on the scrap heap but the workers will never cop it, ask Bill Shorten.
 

Taylor

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Wrong, Nuclear is way,way more expensive and you have spent plutonium hanging around for 100's of years.
The only people pushing for this uneconomic plan are those industry groups who can pivot from coal to nuclear to continue to make enormous profits.
I would have thought liberal voters respected the adverse affect this would have on the budget.
Show your working. I've already told you it will cost $750 billion to have a week of backup battery from renewables.

Even at $20 billion a nuclear power plant that's way ahead.
 

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