Keith Pitt the lobby group for coal within government.

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STFUJEFF

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The strange bit is Keith Pitt represents farmers in his electorate not miners
Bundy to Hervey Bay
Cane Macadamia small crops and a bit of beef and citrus.

Unfortunately with the One nation vote and the Palmer vote he has Labor easily covered,so he can get away with what ever he likes.
It would take a massively strong campaign from a Fisher and Shooter to unseat him over a few elections
 

Heisenberg_

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Wind farms are an abomination. The cost to manufacture them (in China or Germany) then transport them here, erect them and then have to replace them in 20 years and they cannot be recycled. Plus the wildlife they obliterate each year. They should install a few of these monstrosities in Fitzroy and Brunswick and force the cafe latte set to have to experience what it is like to live near one of these monstrosities. Nuclear energy is not an option and will never happen in Australia.
If we had a government made up of educated and progressive forward thinkers we have a opportunity to become a clean energy superpower and in the process fix the mess that is the debt and deficit that has been created by the coalition since 2013.
Instead we are going deeper and deeper into the hole and will get hit by trading tariffs, not if but when because of the government’s refusal to step up and be a part of the international community.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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Dont you want to know about the article you quoted. You are simply misrepresenting that article, read it again with comprehension engaged.
Sorry what's your point? What is your response to Australia being the biggest climate bastards on the planet. Nothing to be proud of imo.
 

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Gough

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Vic Nats looking to disaffiliate from the federal body due to their position climate change.
Steph Ryan on the radio.
Certainly from a Victorian perspective, and we do have some coalmining communities in the Latrobe Valley, but we also understand that farmers and rural communities see the challenges of climate change and they want us to do more about it.

There are opportunities that can come with that, and that’s what I’m saying. We want to be part of those opportunities. So yes, I do think that the narrative needs to change. The discussion needs to change. We need to be sensible in how we approach those discussions and be part of the solution, rather than the problem.
 

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TheBrownDog
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China are biding their time. The person most afraid of China is Putin..The Chinese have been agitating that Vladivostok belongs to China...
Chinese workers have been pushing into Russian territory for the past decade...China would love to get their hands on the Russian oil and minerals.
You could kiss goodbye any reduction in Co2 if this happened.
By way of background, my funds are backed by a range of strategic partners CITIC (china), DFC (US), EBRD (EU) along with a number of industrials like dyson, bmw, rolls royce etc

On of our jobs was with the Indian government on a war metals strategy as 10,000 chinese workers would cross the indian border each day. The Indian army would push the workers back across the border, until one day the 10,000 chinese civilians put on their military uniforms..............hmmmmm

We ended up securing the war metals from Russia but an interesting story from Russia was...............10,000 chinese workers would cross into eastern russia each day. The only difference between India's and Russia's approach was Russia would not push them back across the border. Instead they use the FSP.

Russia is also working with the US and EU trying to open up Eastern Russia to create jobs and thus populate the region.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Keith Pitt amoungst others, seems to be the voice of the coal lobby within the coalition.
Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government especially when it is costing the tax payer money to support this antiquated and wastful technology?
have you worked out yet, your opening post is embarrassing?

Can you please provide discussion on which political parties would be wound up under your proposal as represented?
 

Aristotle Pickett

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have you worked out yet, your opening post is embarrassing?

Can you please provide discussion on which political parties would be wound up under your proposal as represented?

Can you be more articulate please. You make no sense. My opening post is quite truthful and easy to understand.
Fact-Australia is the world's worse climate bastard.
Fact- Keith Pitt is part of the coal lobby within the liberal party.
You need to get out of your far right wing fantasy world and accept the facts. Reading what Malcom Roberts says won't help you.
Why do you disrespect science so much?
 

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TheBrownDog
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Can you be more articulate please. You make no sense. My opening post is quite truthful and easy to understand.
Fact-Australia is the world's worse climate bastard.
Fact- Keith Pitt is part of the coal lobby within the liberal party.
You need to get out of your far right wing fantasy world and accept the facts. Reading what Malcom Roberts says won't help you.
Why do you disrespect science so much?
your opening post was an embarrassment.

You questioned the appropriateness of lobby groups in politics with the statement "Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government". Yet you failed to appreciate the Greens and Labor are founded by lobby groups and lobby group interests.

You also called out coal, which I to support moving away from. The difference in our position though is like your lack of understanding of lobby groups and politics, you have no idea about how we should move away from coal.

If your were honest with yourself, you wouldn't run away from:

Please name one jurisdiction on the planet that has a renewable strategy that has delivered 15-70g CO2 per kwh, without relying upon hydro or nuclear? Further those with clean energy who achieved it in the 1980s (at 14-70) have increased their CO2 output per kwh on the introduction of renewables.

So why do you advocate following failed power generation models, in a climate emergency, when the only solution is clear and obvious?


Answering these questions requires investigating the facts and the facts unfortunately don't lie.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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your opening post was an embarrassment.

You questioned the appropriateness of lobby groups in politics with the statement "Is it acceptable to have lobby groups embedded in government". Yet you failed to appreciate the Greens and Labor are founded by lobby groups and lobby group interests.

You also called out coal, which I to support moving away from. The difference in our position though is like your lack of understanding of lobby groups and politics, you have no idea about how we should move away from coal.

If your were honest with yourself, you wouldn't run away from:

Please name one jurisdiction on the planet that has a renewable strategy that has delivered 15-70g CO2 per kwh, without relying upon hydro or nuclear? Further those with clean energy who achieved it in the 1980s (at 14-70) have increased their CO2 output per kwh on the introduction of renewables.

So why do you advocate following failed power generation models, in a climate emergency, when the only solution is clear and obvious?


Answering these questions requires investigating the facts and the facts unfortunately don't lie.
You are in a cult.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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because I agree with you?
Not sure what you mean, but you you would have to admit your views are the same the mad coal cult, who are laughed at around the world.
If you want to find excuses to waste money and make climate change and our bushfires worse that's weird imo.
Keith Pitt wouldn't give two shits about people like you, he's setting himself up for a big pay day when he leaves politics and pissing on the environment on the way.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Not sure what you mean, but you you would have to admit your views are the same the mad coal cult, who are laughed at around the world.
If you want to find excuses to waste money and make climate change and our bushfires worse that's weird imo.
Keith Pitt wouldn't give two shits about people like you, he's setting himself up for a big pay day when he leaves politics and pissing on the environment on the way.
you must be posting whilst drinking or on drugs

how many more times do I have to say "I'm pro moving away from coal"

Now hopefully you can accept we have the same position................my question to you is:


Please name one jurisdiction on the planet that has a renewable strategy that has delivered 15-70g CO2 per kwh, without relying upon hydro or nuclear? Further those with clean energy who achieved it in the 1980s (at 14-70) have increased their CO2 output per kwh on the introduction of renewables.

So why do you advocate following failed power generation models, in a climate emergency, when the only solution is clear and obvious?
 

Aristotle Pickett

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you must be posting whilst drinking or on drugs

how many more times do I have to say "I'm pro moving away from coal"

Now hopefully you can accept we have the same position................my question to you is:


Please name one jurisdiction on the planet that has a renewable strategy that has delivered 15-70g CO2 per kwh, without relying upon hydro or nuclear? Further those with clean energy who achieved it in the 1980s (at 14-70) have increased their CO2 output per kwh on the introduction of renewables.

So why do you advocate following failed power generation models, in a climate emergency, when the only solution is clear and obvious?
So you got that quote from a pro-nuclear website and you're pro-nuclear?
Nuclear is not established here therefore it is uneconomic not to mention the nuclear waste that would have to be stored plus the potential for Fukoshima like disasters.
It's a silly idea being pushed by people worried about losing their coal revenues, especially when there is plentiful wind and solar and ever improving battery storage capabilities.
 

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TheBrownDog
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So you got that quote from a pro-nuclear website and you're pro-nuclear?
Nuclear is not established here therefore it is uneconomic not to mention the nuclear waste that would have to be stored plus the potential for Fukoshima like disasters.
It's a silly idea being pushed by people worried about losing their coal revenues, especially when there is plentiful wind and solar and ever improving battery storage capabilities.
no re a pro-nuclear website

It is based on facts provided by government and energy regulators



as I requested, given we have a climate emergency, how long do we give renewables and batteries to become effective? or were you just bull shitting about a climate emergency and just like the idea of renewables?
 

Kwality

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If we had a government made up of educated and progressive forward thinkers we have a opportunity to become a clean energy superpower and in the process fix the mess that is the debt and deficit that has been created by the coalition since 2013.
Instead we are going deeper and deeper into the hole and will get hit by trading tariffs, not if but when because of the government’s refusal to step up and be a part of the international community.
PLs explain the concept of 'a clean energy superpower'.
Then explain how it could eliminate debt & deficit .....
 

Kwality

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Sorry what's your point? What is your response to Australia being the biggest climate bastards on the planet. Nothing to be proud of imo.
That is not the only position to your drum beating alarmism of your fellow travellers. Questioning what we do is not denial in the real world.
 

Kwality

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Vic Nats looking to disaffiliate from the federal body due to their position climate change.
Steph Ryan on the radio.
That different people across the country have differing views is nothing unusual. Its only when the HQ power brokers seek to deny this that it costs votes. Need an example?
 

Admiral Byng

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PLs explain the concept of 'a clean energy superpower'.
Then explain how it could eliminate debt & deficit .....
Wasn't directed at me but I'll have a stab.

There is going to be a huge demand for products made with low carbon footprint. Future tariff and trade quotas will begin to account for it. Those countries with the lowest carbon footprint will have a trade advantage. If we could have a clean energy grid then all the stuff we make will have that advantage. Especially if we can use renewable energy to turn our ores into metals. This would be a massive value adding from which we would get a significant boost in export values, which equals higher tax revenues, less public debts etc -to answer that specific question. Value adding has been the big economic dream for decades, as the world transitions from fossil fuels to renewables might be the right time to achieve it.
 

Kwality

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Wasn't directed at me but I'll have a stab.

There is going to be a huge demand for products made with low carbon footprint. Future tariff and trade quotas will begin to account for it. Those countries with the lowest carbon footprint will have a trade advantage. If we could have a clean energy grid then all the stuff we make will have that advantage. Especially if we can use renewable energy to turn our ores into metals. This would be a massive value adding from which we would get a significant boost in export values, which equals higher tax revenues, less public debts etc -to answer that specific question. Value adding has been the big economic dream for decades, as the world transitions from fossil fuels to renewables might be the right time to achieve it.
Manufacturing will have all the disadvantages we face today, ditto value adding our minerals. Love to see how it can happen.

Bloody long time since Bjelke Joh & Lang Hancock proposed an east west railway, to bring harness WA iron ore to Qld coal & establish a steel industry that is internationally competitive:
The idea of a railway across the top end is not new. Former Queensland Premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen and iron ore tycoon Lang Hancock reportedly envisioned a similar line in 1975.
 

Admiral Byng

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Manufacturing will have all the disadvantages we face today, ditto value adding our minerals. Love to see how it can happen.

Bloody long time since Bjelke Joh & Lang Hancock proposed an east west railway, to bring harness WA iron ore to Qld coal & establish a steel industry that is internationally competitive:
The idea of a railway across the top end is not new. Former Queensland Premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen and iron ore tycoon Lang Hancock reportedly envisioned a similar line in 1975.

Forget manufacturing. Just turning ores into metals of semi finished or simple shapes - billets, bars, sheets, etc. That alone will be a big boost in value adding.

The future for low carbon footprint steel is away from coking coal and towards direct reduction. Mostly using syngas as the reducing agent. At the moment syngas comes from natural gas, but it can be derived from biomass. The technology already exists but nobody has tried to do it on the necessary industrial scale yet. Also saves a lot of energy because it doesn't need to be quite as hot as a blast furnace, about 850C rather than 1200C. Also, there is the possibility of using hydrogen gas instead of syngas as the reducing agent - so there is scope for this fitting in nicely with the "new hydrogen economy".

Also, aluminium, titanium and other rarer but industrially important metals that need bulk electricity to turn into metals.

I see the better way of doing things is to move energy around via high voltage DC, rather than moving coal or iron ore across continents by heavy rail. The old JBP/ Lang Hancock dream is outdated now, since that is all based around coal and blast furnaces - which is high carbon footprint old tech. So it doesn't really count in the context of a low carbon future.
 

Kram

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What benefit do we get from reducing our carbon footprint?

I remember during the fires a couple of years back you were laying the blame for the fires at the feet of the government for not taking action on climate change.

Well I challenge you to show how even a -100% emissions from Australia would have impacted the global situation enough to have prevented the fires.

Your position is assigning all responsibility to the non action and unable to show the results of action.

You are the one literally selling a dream.

It's so simple though. If you want zero emissions, it's going to cost a lot of money or we are going nuclear and it will still cost money but not as much.

What happens when we are there and we still have climate change? Do we go to war over it? Do we build a bubble over Australia?

Show the expected returns for the money spent.

Or do we admit that it's never been the goal. It's just the next convenient political tool?
And ding, ding we have a winner.
 

Kwality

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Forget manufacturing. Just turning ores into metals of semi finished or simple shapes - billets, bars, sheets, etc. That alone will be a big boost in value adding.

The future for low carbon footprint steel is away from coking coal and towards direct reduction. Mostly using syngas as the reducing agent. At the moment syngas comes from natural gas, but it can be derived from biomass. The technology already exists but nobody has tried to do it on the necessary industrial scale yet. Also saves a lot of energy because it doesn't need to be quite as hot as a blast furnace, about 850C rather than 1200C. Also, there is the possibility of using hydrogen gas instead of syngas as the reducing agent - so there is scope for this fitting in nicely with the "new hydrogen economy".

Also, aluminium, titanium and other rarer but industrially important metals that need bulk electricity to turn into metals.

I see the better way of doing things is to move energy around via high voltage DC, rather than moving coal or iron ore across continents by heavy rail. The old JBP/ Lang Hancock dream is outdated now, since that is all based around coal and blast furnaces - which is high carbon footprint old tech. So it doesn't really count in the context of a low carbon future.
Got it, I responded to your suggestion:

If we could have a clean energy grid then all the stuff we make will have that advantage.
Happy to acknowledge I dont have the tech understanding of how hydrogen is such a break though in terms of clean energy, but I am wary of our ability to be large scale manufacturers any time soon.
 

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TheBrownDog
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PLs explain the concept of 'a clean energy superpower'.
Then explain how it could eliminate debt & deficit .....
we have a mortgage over the sun for 8 hours a day and we can buy chinese made solar panels and land clear thousands of square kilometres of vegetation
we have some wind which we can link by tens of thousands of kilometres of high CO2 copper cable in an endeavour to reduce reliability issues
we can have non recyclable batteries and create abundant e-waste which can power our homes providing we don't use appliances (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-03/battery-power-dandenong-ranges-tesla-agm-grid/100264988)

eliminate debt and deficit
if we place high taxes on chinese imports like solar panels and wind turbines, we can pay off our debt and deficit

clean superpower
with low paying jobs and poor prospects in Australia as we have made it too hard and too expensive to create value in Australia, like the Philippines, we can export our women to clean around the world to support their families back home
 
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Can you be more articulate please. You make no sense. My opening post is quite truthful and easy to understand.
Fact-Australia is the world's worse climate bastard.
Fact- Keith Pitt is part of the coal lobby within the liberal party.
You need to get out of your far right wing fantasy world and accept the facts. Reading what Malcom Roberts says won't help you.
Why do you disrespect science so much?
You are under the illusion that scientists and institutions do not have vested interests. It was proven in the early 2000's that scientists were fabricating climate change figures to suit their arguments, give them prestige and thereby very important grants.

What is a more profitable outcome? Find a cure for cancer or keep developing better drugs that will hold it off for a few years??? I can tell you what the Big Pharma companies will tell you privately.

This whole global warming climate change alarmist hysteria is there to serve as a means to an end. Get the population to stress out about things they can neither change nor control, force them to pay more for everything, and allow the military-industrial industry of all the super powers to continue to spend trillions developing weapons of mass destruction. China is building hundreds of missile silos. The Americans, Russians, Europeans, Indians, Israeli's continue to invest trillions but have the audacity to lecture us about our lifestyle. Imposing congestion taxes, and carbon credits, as they funnel trillions to their mates in the armaments industry.

Anyone who takes this climate emergency seriously is a fool.
 

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