Current Keli Lane

Did Keli Lane get a fair trial?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • No

    Votes: 10 76.9%

  • Total voters
    13

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Bunk Moreland

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I believe Tegan is dead However, it's an interesting case because if she had done something like leave Tegan in the bush because she couldn't cope or admitted to infanticide almost certainly she would have served her time by now. I don't think she did. But I do think she felt trapped because she was made very uncomfortable (I'm wondering if she was accused of using abortions and adoptions as contraceptives) with the previous adoption and didn't leave any option other than keeping the baby until the baby was born. Whether it was the shame she thought it may cause her family or end her relationship (and cause further shame) if her boyfriend found out, that she was desperate and asked her Dad to help out?

She would not want to ever address what that may have entailed and has lived in fairy tale land ever since. But she does realise that if this was what happened and she did tell the truth, she would be destroying all in her family. I don't think she ever thought she would be convicted and didn't realise the pile of lies would get her where she is.
Pretty much.

Saving face (in your own mind) can be a very, very powerful motivator. I think she ran the gauntlet with police and the courts and has been too deeply ashamed to ever admit it. And she never will, IMO.
 

Run n Spread

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Five theories Caro v Elise.

View attachment 573950
1. Theory 4 Just opinion but ultimately don't think timing works for murder. Most likely she gave Tegan to someone else. Given the shoddy search and the time elapsed chances of finding Tegan are nil.

2. Theory 5 Matches the last couple. Clearly Andrew Norris is not a real person/real name but the baby could've been given to someone illegally. i.e. Sold or to a father.

3. Theory 1 Possible. Timeframe is too tight and no motive or pattern of behaviour.

4. Theory 2 Maybe. But timing and motive still an issue unless you're looking at something like Infantacide.

5. Theory 3 Highly doubt any such person exits. Story is bullshit.

Just guesswork thou. Could easily switch orders. As someone above said I don't see how you could have not remembering as 1 and murder as 5. Unless it is something like Infantacide/PTSD or something.
 

Run n Spread

Norm Smith Medallist
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Pretty much.

Saving face (in your own mind) can be a very, very powerful motivator. I think she ran the gauntlet with police and the courts and has been too deeply ashamed to ever admit it. And she never will, IMO.
Possible and given she hid pregnancies shows the need to save face/not deal with parents/judgements. Doesn't really point to murder. Pattern of behaviour suggests she tends to wash her hands of these things. So either given away/possibly abandoned.
 

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big_e

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1. Theory 4 Just opinion but ultimately don't think timing works for murder. Most likely she gave Tegan to someone else. Given the shoddy search and the time elapsed chances of finding Tegan are nil.

2. Theory 5 Matches the last couple. Clearly Andrew Norris is not a real person/real name but the baby could've been given to someone illegally. i.e. Sold or to a father.

3. Theory 1 Possible. Timeframe is too tight and no motive or pattern of behaviour.

4. Theory 2 Maybe. But timing and motive still an issue unless you're looking at something like Infantacide.

5. Theory 3 Highly doubt any such person exits. Story is bullshit.

Just guesswork thou. Could easily switch orders. As someone above said I don't see how you could have not remembering as 1 and murder as 5. Unless it is something like Infantacide/PTSD or something.
Yeah, it's all guesswork.

What seems odd is that Andrew Norris turned up at the hospital with his wife/partner and his mother. Wonder if there were some discussions about adoption/surrogacy, Andrew said he'd sort it out and the two women aren't who she thought they were - ie not related to Andrew.

But it would be a prick of a thing for them to do to keep quiet while she spends that long in jail.
 

Kurve

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Run n Spread

Norm Smith Medallist
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Interesting conversation on Mamma mia between Caro and Mia Freedman.
Downloaded. Only on Mama Mia could they turn this into a man blaming exercise.........The men didn't come forward, Duncan Gillies wouldn't speak, the prosecutors bought up Kelli's story and her sex life, the men didn't use protection etc........Give it a spell.

Rest of it is Mia chucking her opinions, judgements and gossip in and Caro keeping it on track.

Weird thing with Caro is:

1) There are so many holes in the case
2) The psychology and pathology don't fit
3) The portrait of Kelli isn't accurate
4) We couldn't find any evidence of murder

etc etc

But: I still think she did it. WTF?
 
Last edited:

Run n Spread

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The AFP have busted a child stealing ring operating in NSW and QLD after a two year operation, it involves hiding children from their fathers in contravention of family court orders but it might be interesting to follow and find out how this ring managed to hide the kids in the system. A GP was involved.

A new thread opened here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/child-abductions-_-operation-noetic.1207607/#post-58562953
Same network possibly.

Looking at the Facebook group, looks like it at the “sign a change.org petition” stage already.

Going nowhere fast.
Nowhere for it to go really. Appeals are all done. Only way for it to open is compelling new evidence.

a) They find Tegan/Andrew Norris
b) One of the Police investigators admits/ it is found part of the evidence is contaminated or faulty. (Won't happen)

Case has already gone to the High Court and being knocked back.
 

CheapCharlie

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Downloaded. Only on Mama Mia could they turn this into a man blaming exercise.........The men didn't come forward, Duncan Gillies wouldn't speak, the prosecutors bought up Kelli's story and her sex life, the men didn't use protection etc........Give it a spell.

Rest of it is Mia chucking her opinions, judgements and gossip in and Caro keeping it on track.

Weird thing with Caro is:

1) There are so many holes in the case
2) The psychology and pathology don't fit
3) The portrait of Kelli isn't accurate
4) We couldn't find any evidence of murder

etc etc

But: I still think she did it. WTF?
Mama Mia playing to its audience
 

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Kurve

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But: I still think she did it. WTF?
I think what she means is that it all 'looks' like she disappeared or murdered the baby but not beyond a reasonable doubt. Thinking someone is guilty is not necessarily proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Caro would have been that hold out on the jury.
 

Bunk Moreland

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I’ve been thinking about the reasonable doubt thing, and it’s tricky, because you’re judging two things - (1) whether KL murdered her daughter, but also (2) the veracity of her bullshit Andrew Norris story.

It plays against her massively.

If her story was instead... I dunno... “I was walking the baby along X street, stopped to use a public toilet, turned around and she was gone, abducted etc, that’s all I know”... I reckon she’d have got off. Because she’s not being tripped up by having to prove her story, who the bloke is, etc.

But because she’s telling this story, about Andrew Norris (for whom there is zero credible evidence even exists), then you end up judging that in the first instance - not whether or not she committed murder. Almost everybody comes to the logical conclusion that it’s bullshit - BECAUSE there’s no evidence of what she’s saying - and the next step is she’s hiding the truth. And what’s (a) bad enough to lie and (b) being alleged? Murder.

I think that’s the stream of logic among jurors that has tripped up her defence. If she had a far simpler story, one that nobody could try to prove, she’d probably have got off - even though I think she’s guilty.

I actually think it’s beyond reasonable doubt that her Andrew Norris story is bullshit.

And based on that, for me it’s beyond reasonable doubt that she murdered the baby.

Hopefully that makes sense.
 

Perth gal

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I’ve been thinking about the reasonable doubt thing, and it’s tricky, because you’re judging two things - (1) whether KL murdered her daughter, but also (2) the veracity of her bullshit Andrew Norris story.

It plays against her massively.

If her story was instead... I dunno... “I was walking the baby along X street, stopped to use a public toilet, turned around and she was gone, abducted etc, that’s all I know”... I reckon she’d have got off. Because she’s not being tripped up by having to prove her story, who the bloke is, etc.

But because she’s telling this story, about Andrew Norris (for whom there is zero credible evidence even exists), then you end up judging that in the first instance - not whether or not she committed murder. Almost everybody comes to the logical conclusion that it’s bullshit - BECAUSE there’s no evidence of what she’s saying - and the next step is she’s hiding the truth. And what’s (a) bad enough to lie and (b) being alleged? Murder.

I think that’s the stream of logic among jurors that has tripped up her defence. If she had a far simpler story, one that nobody could try to prove, she’d probably have got off - even though I think she’s guilty.

I actually think it’s beyond reasonable doubt that her Andrew Norris story is bullshit.

And based on that, for me it’s beyond reasonable doubt that she murdered the baby.

Hopefully that makes sense.
No I don't think you can link the two. It was NOT proved beyond reasonable doubt that she murdered the baby. I'm unsure as to what I think about her story but even it's bullshit it can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt . Maybe there's another story but I think it's pretty scary really the way a person can be tried and convicted without a body, confession and a dodgy police investigation and witnesses not called.
 

Bunk Moreland

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No I don't think you can link the two. It was NOT proved beyond reasonable doubt that she murdered the baby. I'm unsure as to what I think about her story but even it's bullshit it can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt . Maybe there's another story but I think it's pretty scary really the way a person can be tried and convicted without a body, confession and a dodgy police investigation and witnesses not called.
I think her story was proven bullshit beyond reasonable doubt. The lengths the police went to in order to find Andrew were extensive. There is simply zero evidence he exists. Yes, if we want to poke singular holes in their investigation we can, despite two years of searching they may have missed something, and yes it’s possible he does exist. But enough for reasonable doubt? Not in my book, anyway.
 

Perth gal

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My opinion is that even if the story is crap it wasn't proven beyond reasonable doubt that she murdered her.

And I think the cops were just looking for a man by the name Keli gave.

The podcast is interesting. Caro says they have a number of leads of people saying there was a man by that name who hung around the Balmain area possibly with a drug past etc.
 

Bunk Moreland

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My opinion is that even if the story is crap it wasn't proven beyond reasonable doubt that she murdered her.

And I think the cops were just looking for a man by the name Keli gave.

The podcast is interesting. Caro says they have a number of leads of people saying there was a man by that name who hung around the Balmain area possibly with a drug past etc.
Do you think the Andrew Norris story is true?

I think it's bullshit - but that's just my opinion. I don't know, of course.
 

Kurve

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ChrisMurphy is backing her, his skill in law and instincts are formidable.

"The judge was astounded and retired saying he did not think the jury would convict Keli Lane. I was not Keli Lane's lawyer and don't have to live with that she was found guilty..however I engaged a brilliant ex senior homicide detective & a leading private eye. Both without fee examined the case and concluded the original police investigation was amateur and an inadequate disgrace. I know the Prosecutor cheated in Court. I visited Keli (no fee sought or paid) and as a trick asked would she undergo a lie detector test. She begged to do it. Would you if you were guilty of a crime?"
 

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