Kennett the Fashionista

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The 747

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 19, 2008
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When this designer jeans incident is the primary driver for this “Hawthorn is racist” campaign, to me it’s obvious that this is fraudulent. I think they have seen some benefit in employing the Lumumba framework and are just rolling with that. After all, pushing back in any way is racist in itself apparently.

It isn't. You are tilting at windmills.

The designer jeans incident is part of the campaign to get rid of Jeff, the bigger story is the rest of the article which you didn't bother to read.
 

ElectricG

Club Legend
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Feb 18, 2019
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It isn't. You are tilting at windmills.

The designer jeans incident is part of the campaign to get rid of Jeff, the bigger story is the rest of the article which you didn't bother to read.
I have just read it now. I’m more assured than ever that the Riolis are acting in “bad faith” air quotes because I hate that term. Everything from photographing and sharing JK’s apology to Cyril’s statement that Clarko wanting to spend time with him was “throwing him a bone” and not a genuine attempt to mend bridges.

And I’m not tilting at windmills. She refers to the incident as a “racial red flag”. She pipes up about this incident in a meeting weeks later after having received an apology.
 

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burge13

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 25, 2019
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Lol, admits it. We need to address racism even where it doesn’t exist.
You can never be woke enough to these people, ever. They will keep demanding more and more and when you finally call out their absurdity they get to say "gotcha. see, you're racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist". They can never signal enough virtue, they are heroes. Notice it's always the same posters - the covid king Gralin for example going from cause to cause proving how much they care and they're right and are just better than you, common sense be damned?

Ignore them. Eventually, they'll argue with each other about who posts the most black squares or rainbows and they fight with each other. The rest of us can see in plain sight they're just ridiculously hysterical people with voids in their lives trying to be filled with likes from wokeisms
 

Bostonian

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Sep 9, 2015
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did you see a qualifier in my statement

I did.

That's why I asked but what if the assertion is ridiculous?

So hypothetically if a black person turned up to a black tie event dressed in casual street clothes and they were refused entry if they deemed that to be racist that makes it instantly racist?

Isn't this how words start to lose all meaning?
 

SuperMal

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She’s a woman, she’s black, she’s an adult, she has a brain. She was singled out for the joke because she was the only one wearing torn jeans. I’m not nit picking, I’m just stating the obvious.

She was wearing torn jeans - she also believes, quite fairly IMO, that JK would not have done the same thing with Hodge or Mitchells wife.

That makes it at the least...bullying....and at worst belittlement of a minority.

From there its a short step to her assuming the worst.
 

SuperMal

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You can never be woke enough to these people, ever. They will keep demanding more and more and when you finally call out their absurdity they get to say "gotcha. see, you're racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist". They can never signal enough virtue, they are heroes. Notice it's always the same posters - the covid king Gralin for example going from cause to cause proving how much they care and they're right and are just better than you, common sense be damned?

Ignore them. Eventually, they'll argue with each other about who posts the most black squares or rainbows and they fight with each other. The rest of us can see in plain sight they're just ridiculously hysterical people with voids in their lives trying to be filled with likes from wokeisms
Clearly it helps you to cast d everyone in the same cloth.

Funny thing is....the equity training I did 40 years ago is still as relevant today......even though the word ‘woke’ wasn’t invented then.

Personally I think it’s more a matter of the intelligence needed to understand not everyone is a white, male, footballer.
 

SuperMal

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I did.

That's why I asked but what if the assertion is ridiculous?

So hypothetically if a black person turned up to a black tie event dressed in casual street clothes and they were refused entry if they deemed that to be racist that makes it instantly racist?

Isn't this how words start to lose all meaning?

Your example is not an accurate analogy.

Try - “So hypothetically if a black person turned up to a black tie event dressed in casual street clothes and they were refused entry - when white people had not been selected out for the same treatment - if they deemed that to be racist that makes it instantly racist?”

My answer in this case is I’d be interested in any other possible reason.
 

burge13

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 25, 2019
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Clearly it helps you to cast d everyone in the same cloth.

Funny thing is....the equity training I did 40 years ago is still as relevant today......even though the word ‘woke’ wasn’t invented then.

Personally I think it’s more a matter of the intelligence needed to understand not everyone is a white, male, footballer.
Equality means treating everyone equally, not based on their skin, gender, religion etc

So why is treating everyone equally isn't good enough for some people? Why must some groups demand parades, welcome to country nonsense, dedicated rounds etc, and if it isn't pandered to it's racist/sexist etc? Equality my arse! People have learned to play victim professionally these days and weaponize it for gain
 

Bostonian

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Sep 9, 2015
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Your example is not an accurate analogy.

Try - “So hypothetically if a black person turned up to a black tie event dressed in casual street clothes and they were refused entry - when white people had not been selected out for the same treatment - if they deemed that to be racist that makes it instantly racist?”

My answer in this case is I’d be interested in any other possible reason.

Wrong.

Using his words so long as a black person views it as racist then a white person has no right to push back that it wasn't. No context required as its all about how they feel.

Your example is when people ask for context to determine if the claim is valid or not.

So this is a case of context be damned, feelings before facts.
 

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SuperMal

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Equality means treating everyone equally, not based on their skin, gender, religion etc

So why is treating everyone equally isn't good enough for some people? Why must some groups demand parades, welcome to country nonsense, dedicated rounds etc, and if it isn't pandered to it's racist/sexist etc? Equality my arse! People have learned to play victim professionally these days and weaponize it for gain
Wrong - Equity means treating people in accordance with their rights to access, participate , join, share employment, training etc.

However I should have said ‘equity and diversity’

Diversity means understanding the cultural differences present between people in a group, so that all feel they are treated fairly, humanely and as equals.

Isolating one of the few black females out because of her dress is not a great example of practicing diversity philosophies.

Equity and Diversity concepts exist because for too long certain cultures were excluded from schools, pubs, health care, churches, the vote, etc.

Its understood by intelligent people that these minorities are still playing ‘catch up football’ in many areas.

If you believe everyone has an equal chance in this country - go live on an Aboriginal mission for 6 months and see what is...and what is not..in their control.
 

Gralin

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Lol, admits it. We need to address racism even where it doesn’t exist.
No I'm saying you're a s**t judge of racism
This isn't ground breaking thinking.

I'm sure Bostonian won't be the only one to try and create some stupid analogy about this.

When a person who experiences racism on a regular basis tells you something is racist, is your automatic thought to deny it?
 

ElectricG

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Its understood by intelligent people that these minorities are still playing ‘catch up football’ in many areas.
This autofellatio is getting beyond a joke. I guess you include yourself in that group huh.
 

SuperMal

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Wrong.

Using his words so long as a black person views it as racist then a white person has no right to push back that it wasn't. No context required as its all about how they feel.

Your example is when people ask for context to determine if the claim is valid or not.

So this is a case of context be damned, feelings before facts.

Believe it or not, I’m a strong believer that people gave to tak some control of their own feelings - meaning just because someone says they were racially abused, there should be some evidence to support this.

However...we’re talking about denying that a person can feel a certain way....when there is enough evidence to say they may well be within their rights.

Anyone that wants to polarise these issues will come off as a bigot....or a ‘wokey’.

The whole point is about accepting they may have concerns..and evaluating it.

Starting from a position of denial reveals a lack of understanding of how these things should be managed.
 

SuperMal

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No I'm saying you're a s**t judge of racism
This isn't ground breaking thinking.

I'm sure Bostonian won't be the only one to try and create some stupid analogy about this.

When a person who experiences racism on a regular basis tells you something is racist, is your automatic thought to deny it?
Regrettably yes in the case of a few posters.
 

Bostonian

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No I'm saying you're a s**t judge of racism
This isn't ground breaking thinking.

I'm sure Bostonian won't be the only one to try and create some stupid analogy about this.

When a person who experiences racism on a regular basis tells you something is racist, is your automatic thought to deny it?


So you're saying that every time someone has claimed racism about something that it's been legitimate and 100% valid and proven to be right?

No disingenuous people or liars have ever claimed it just because they can?

So you will take the word of someone you don't know with zero context as being truthful because they look a certain way?
 

SuperMal

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This autofellatio is getting beyond a joke. I guess you include yourself in that group huh.

See, you've soiled your diaper again.

Just when you seemed like you were grasping the concept of what a minority is...you try to make it about point scoring over me....revealing your limited intellect to us all, again.

Go stand in the corner. D Minus. Must do better.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
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Believe it or not, I’m a strong believer that people gave to tak some control of their own feelings - meaning just because someone says they were racially abused, there should be some evidence to support this.

However...we’re talking about denying that a person can feel a certain way....when there is enough evidence to say they may well be within their rights.

Anyone that wants to polarise these issues will come off as a bigot....or a ‘wokey’.

The whole point is about accepting they may have concerns..and evaluating it.

Starting from a position of denial reveals a lack of understanding of how these things should be managed.

So isn't the point facts should come before feelings?

Any claims no matter what they involve in any part of our lives should come with the caveat that people will ask for evidence of said claims.

So you agree with me then.

That their concern should be listened to but that evidence of said claims still needs to be presented.

And it shouldn't matter who asks those questions if it's in the pursuit of truth. Certain skin colours or not.
 

GOHORCS

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Nov 12, 2011
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Is this jeans comment about the perspectives of two people.
Jeff probably meant no harm and had no intention nor forethought the often used joke had the possibility of being racist.
Cyril and wife thought and felt it was racist and representative of many experiences from their's and other First Nation's peoples lives.
Jeff is then defensive at being thought of as racist.
Cyril and wife see it as endemic cultural issue and part of larger body of racial events.
Jeff percieves this one event he is involved with.
Both parties have different views and an apology could be appropriate from Jeff's POV and completely inadequate from Cyril and wife perspective.
Who is right? From each perspective, it could be both. Both parties feel uncomfortable and justified. Is it reasonable to expect Jeff to know his joke is racially offensive? Is it reasonable for Jeff to expect forgiveness?
Cyril subsequently retiring could also be a natural reaction to all this.
All of us would benefit from walking in the other person's shoes, which is very hard to do.

On SM-A205YN using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

SuperMal

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So isn't the point facts should come before feelings?

Any claims no matter what they involve in any part of our lives should come with the caveat that people will ask for evidence of said claims.

So you agree with me then.

That their concern should be listened to but that evidence of said claims still needs to be presented.

And it shouldn't matter who asks those questions if it's in the pursuit of truth. Certain skin colours or not.
No, facts and feelings have to be evaluated together in these cases.

It may fall that whoever ‘arbitrates’ this says JK was ‘ignorant of appropriate behaviours towards Shannyn......BUT.....there is no clear evidence of a racial slur.’

This is why I keep saying...you cannot take an extreme position in these things....there’s way too much ‘grey’.
 

HairyO

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Jul 13, 2015
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Caro was on the right side of history then on she’s going to be on it again right now.

There’s far more Hawks supporters who are wanting the Rioli situation addressed than there is ones who want to pot Caro.

We can do both. That it happened there is no doubt. Beyond that she has been wrong about pretty much everything.
 

The 747

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 19, 2008
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I have just read it now. I’m more assured than ever that the Riolis are acting in “bad faith” air quotes because I hate that term. Everything from photographing and sharing JK’s apology to Cyril’s statement that Clarko wanting to spend time with him was “throwing him a bone” and not a genuine attempt to mend bridges.

And I’m not tilting at windmills. She refers to the incident as a “racial red flag”. She pipes up about this incident in a meeting weeks later after having received an apology.

So you made up your mind about this long before you bothered to read the article.
 

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