Kenny get a kick

[Blue Red and Gold]

meaningless cliche board.

Any thread about Kenny on here turns out to be a meaningless cliche board, however all the meaningless cliches seem to use the word "structure."

 

[Crow-mo]

Any thread about Kenny on here turns out to be a meaningless cliche board, however all the meaningless cliches seem to use the word "structure."

why? do you not understand the meaning of structure in this context?

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

What is your understanding of Kenny's role?

When we play the Saints and Riewoldt is held to a goal or two and is forced up the ground our defender is commended for doing a good job. Why is Kenny applauded when he does the same? (if he has a good game)

Last year and the season before he has been very good, look through other threads about him from previous seasons, I have been behind him. He has not been good this year, why are people so precious about it? Why do we excpet mediocrity in regards to our forwards? Is it because we havent had a good one before? (bar Modra)

 

[The Crows Truth]

I am not a traditional Kenny basher, I have actually defended him in the past and in past years I have felt he was a very good player and an underrated one at that.

However his form this year has not been good, there is something not right there, he cannot even kick. I may be judging harshly, because I have rated him rather highly in previous seasons. I dont think you can read too much into what NC said about Kenny, lets be honest what else did you expect him, or any other coach for that matter to say?

agree

ive always rated kenny but his output is undeniably down in recent times

 

[Stiffy_18]

Cro-Mo I think most comments are based on his performance over a sustained period .....just as a rough patch highlights player performances our peak performances also tend to put a nice glossy coat on performances as well.

In addition what other tall KPP options have we had during the year...they're all injured or under-developed. So he was required

There is more that one way to skin the cat

If Kenny was as horrible as some make him out to be he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not we had any other talls to replace him with. Bulldogs have been savaged by injuries to their talls this year, yet they were still able to put together a short forward line with one genuine tall and kick a winning score. So much so that they are in contention for a top 4 spot.

Granted, Kenny has struggled this year and he certainly hasn't had his best season but he must be doing something right in the eyes of the coaching staff because he keeps getting a game week in week out.

This line of reasoning that he is getting a game because there is no one to come in for him is a crock of ****. There are more ways to skin a cat and we certainly have the types of players to play the small forward line. Roo, Thompson, Porplyzia etc are all great in the air and on the ground.

 

[knackers27]

Im with BRG.

Kenny needs a run in the SANFL and should not be a walk up start to the seniors when he recovers.

Has been ****house all season.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If Kenny was as horrible as some make him out to be he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not we had any other talls to replace him with. Bulldogs have been savaged by injuries to their talls this year, yet they were still able to put together a short forward line with one genuine tall and kick a winning score. So much so that they are in contention for a top 4 spot.

Granted, Kenny has struggled this year and he certainly hasn't had his best season but he must be doing something right in the eyes of the coaching staff because he keeps getting a game week in week out.

This line of reasoning that he is getting a game because there is no one to come in for him is a crock of ****. There are more ways to skin a cat and we certainly have the types of players to play the small forward line. Roo, Thompson, Porplyzia etc are all great in the air and on the ground.

Poor Stiffy so innocent to the ways of the world

1. All teams structure (gee I'm starting to hate that word) differently .....good coaches (like Eade) use the player types at their disposal and setup a gameplan around them. Eade has stated in interviews that when he joined the Bulldogs he was planning to play a different gamestyle to what has eventuated....but as he says he didn't fully realise the running capabilities of his group and changed his approach.

He has also said that if he had talls available he would still now probably structure up the same way.

Stiffy - no comparision here mate

2. Craig wants leading forwards but in pressure situations like finals balls do get simply pumped to the goalsquare.....so in his structure he wants talls and in Kennys case if he's not marking then as long as he's not being outmarked.

And no there have not been options unless a ruckman was used.

3. My point on Kenny (and people are not listening) is that he's not indespensible as you Stiffy have suggested last year as a contender for AA CHB ....sorry had to laugh at that. He's a workhorse ALA Mensch from Geelong who I also could never work out how he got a game as he only occasionly did something....anything!. But he played a lot of games and obviously structure was a buzzword at Geelong who won how many flags during Mensch's period at the club????

Back on sermon....I rate players as they would be benchmarked against players from other clubs and whether as a forward he could be a game winner. IMO he's a perfect backup player, a depth player and when injuries occur he can fill a number of rolls....but is he the superstar that people were making him out to be over the last couple of years....hell no! and yes he could easiliy have the game pass him by as the pace continues to increase each year.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Poor Stiffy so innocent to the ways of the world

1. All teams structure (gee I'm starting to hate that word) differently .....good coaches (like Eade) use the player types at their disposal and setup a gameplan around them. Eade has stated in interviews that when he joined the Bulldogs he was planning to play a different gamestyle to what has eventuated....but as he says he didn't fully realise the running capabilities of his group and changed his approach.

He has also said that if he had talls available he would still now probably structure up the same way.

Stiffy - no comparision here mate

2. Craig wants leading forwards but in pressure situations like finals balls do get simply pumped to the goalsquare.....so in his structure he wants talls and in Kennys case if he's not marking then as long as he's not being outmarked.

And no there have not been options unless a ruckman was used.

3. My point on Kenny (and people are not listening) is that he's not indespensible as you Stiffy have suggested last year as a contender for AA CHB ....sorry had to laugh at that. He's a workhorse ALA Mensch from Geelong who I also could never work out how he got a game as he only occasionly did something....anything!. But he played a lot of games and obviously structure was a buzzword at Geelong who won how many flags during Mensch's period at the club????

Back on sermon....I rate players as they would be benchmarked against players from other clubs and whether as a forward he could be a game winner. IMO he's a perfect backup player, a depth player and when injuries occur he can fill a number of rolls....but is he the superstar that people were making him out to be over the last couple of years....hell no! and yes he could easiliy have the game pass him by as the pace continues to increase each year.

Wow wow wow hold your freaking horses. I have never said last year that Kenny is contender for CHB as he didn't even play CHB for more than half a year. I did mention it a while back while he was playing at CHB under Ayres where he never got beaten and at the time the number of healthy CHBs in the competition was low.

Secondly who the **** ever said that Kenny is a superstar. Please prove that allegation with some sort of quote. What people are saying is that Kenny is a good player. Has been for a number of years now. He will never be a star but he is dependable and as honest as the day is long. We all know what we are getting with Kenny. For once stop putting words into other people's mouth. No one has ever labeled him a superstar.

Now back to the WB. So are you telling me that Craig wouldn't have changed up the set up if he felt it wasn't working? If Kenny has been as bad as you and many others make him out to be then he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not there is a tall to come in and replace him. Craig would have gone with a smaller forward line if Kenny was THAT bad. Craig's#1 objective as a coach is to win games and if he felt that he had better chance with Kenny out of the side then he sure as hell would have gone for that option.

There is more than one way to structure up. We made a prelim final in 2002 with Burton as our FF. With players like Roo, Burton, Edwards, Porplyzia, Vince, Hentschel, Johncock, Thompson and Bode, there was enough of mix there for him to go small like the Bulldogs. Those small/medium guys I mentioned apart from Bode are all very strong overhead for their size and they also happen to be good at ground level and quicker than Kenny. If Kenny is as much of a liability as you like to make him out to be, he would have been back in SANFL a VERY VERY long time ago.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Wow wow wow hold your freaking horses. I have never said last year that Kenny is contender for CHB as he didn't even play CHB for more than half a year. I did mention it a while back while he was playing at CHB under Ayres where he never got beaten and at the time the number of healthy CHBs in the competition was low.

Secondly who the **** ever said that Kenny is a superstar. Please prove that allegation with some sort of quote. What people are saying is that Kenny is a good player. Has been for a number of years now. He will never be a star but he is dependable and as honest as the day is long. We all know what we are getting with Kenny. For once stop putting words into other people's mouth. No one has ever labeled him a superstar.

1. I said a couple of years ago ....that didn't mean neccessarily last year but seeing as he was talked up early last year on the back of a good 2004 year at CHB....there is always a reputation carryover to the next season by supporters and you were no exception.

2. There was a thread on who in the Crows team at trading were considered "untouchable" ....guess who was in the top 5....yep you guessed Kenny

now people should never confuse dependability and being untouchable.......so whilst the term superstar I agree was not used it was strongly inferred thru that thread.

 

[The Crows Truth]

Now back to the WB. So are you telling me that Craig wouldn't have changed up the set up if he felt it wasn't working? If Kenny has been as bad as you and many others make him out to be then he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not there is a tall to come in and replace him. Craig would have gone with a smaller forward line if Kenny was THAT bad. Craig's#1 objective as a coach is to win games and if he felt that he had better chance with Kenny out of the side then he sure as hell would have gone for that option.

.

stiffy without wanting to get in between you and WW here I would have to say that Kennys form and output is considerably down on previous yrs. wouldnt you agree with this?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Now back to the WB. So are you telling me that Craig wouldn't have changed up the set up if he felt it wasn't working? If Kenny has been as bad as you and many others make him out to be then he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not there is a tall to come in and replace him. Craig would have gone with a smaller forward line if Kenny was THAT bad. Craig's#1 objective as a coach is to win games and if he felt that he had better chance with Kenny out of the side then he sure as hell would have gone for that option.

There is more than one way to structure up. We made a prelim final in 2002 with Burton as our FF. With players like Roo, Burton, Edwards, Porplyzia, Vince, Hentschel, Johncock, Thompson and Bode, there was enough of mix there for him to go small like the Bulldogs. Those small/medium guys I mentioned apart from Bode are all very strong overhead for their size and they also happen to be good at ground level and quicker than Kenny. If Kenny is as much of a liability as you like to make him out to be, he would have been back in SANFL a VERY VERY long time ago.

Thing with Kenny is he provides a contest and is rarely outmarked...that's good and we have been winning if you've noticed...so some issues remain dormant till a Collingwood loss occurs and then these issues raise their heads.

Problem is we need more from a CHF longterm IMO than just a contest....we need a contested marking player who can kick goals from 50+ mtrs.

Collingwood have the absolute identical problem at the moment with A.Rocca....not taking marks...yet is providing a contest
ATM I would find it hard to separate Rocca and Kenny and I know the momentum growing over here in Vic about Rocca performances.

Kemnny....good back up....but not a gamebreaker!

 

[The Crows Truth]

.

Kemnny....good back up....but not a gamebreaker!

unlike Bode

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Footnote:

everyone says the game is getting quicker each and every year......why then benchmark a player from 3 years ago to demonstrate how he has performed.

It maybe that the game has quickened up to a degree where Kenny is struggling to get to enough contests......is he injured....aren't they all to a degree this time of year, but they all have to perform in the finals if we're to get the flag!

 

[macca23]

If Kenny is as much of a liability as you like to make him out to be, he would have been back in SANFL a VERY VERY long time ago.

You're wasting your time Stiffy.

You can't reason with closed minds.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

unlike Bode

on the back of one game

Have you noticed how good so many of the players play who are about to complete a contract

 

[CrowMagnum]

No-one disagrees that he has some flaws in his game and if he is to stay in the team he needs to work on these.
The ones that I've seen (and I'm sure there are others) are

Marking - he's good overhead but tries to take the low contested mark on his chest rather than in front of him. Good defenders will always spoil him

Ground work - he's not good below the knees. Does he have a back problem that stops him bending down?

Kicking - used to be quite good but this seems to have deserted him this year

Keeping his feet - his high centre of gravity and slight lack of co-ordination predispose him to falling over more than most, but he needs a stronger mental approach to staying up

Lack of pace- this is hardly going to improve at this stage of his career but he is a tall and can compensate by running to the right places.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You're wasting your time Stiffy.

You can't reason with closed minds.

my minds not closed - give me a counter argument other than structure

 

[macca23]

my minds not closed - give me a counter argument other than structure

Okay.

Craig has faith in Kenny and says that he is doing the job he's asked to do. Raised by Craig unasked in a press conference to try to silence the knockers like you, who's attitude he said he can't understand.

My eyes can see the role that he's playing and I've expressed that many times. I agree with Craig.

WW says he's very ordinary. Too slow etc etc

Choice: What I see and what Craig tells us. OR WW's jaundiced opinion of Kenny.

It's as easy as that.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Okay.

Craig has faith in Kenny and says that he is doing the job he's asked to do. Raised by Craig unasked in a press conference to try to silence the knockers like you, who's attitude he said he can't understand.

My eyes can see the role that he's playing and I've expressed that many times. I agree with Craig.

WW says he's very ordinary. Too slow etc etc

Choice: What I see and what Craig tells us. OR WW's jaundiced opinion of Kenny.

It's as easy as that.

How can I beat that argument ..... solid logic, supporting evidence, obviously a legal background....I obviosly have not put my case succinctly enough and it's patently obvious I must concede

 

[macca23]

How can I beat that argument ..... solid logic, supporting evidence, obviously a legal background....I obviosly have not put my case succinctly enough and it's patently obvious I must concede

One of the smartest things you've said in this thread WW.

 

[Crow-mo]

1. All teams structure (gee I'm starting to hate that word) differently

obviously.

and which structure is Kenny valuable to? ours.

2. Craig wants leading forwards but in pressure situations like finals balls do get simply pumped to the goalsquare.....so in his structure he wants talls and in Kennys case if he's not marking then as long as he's not being outmarked.

you keep talking about finals, but why have you forgotten that kenny was one of our best finals players last year?

he was excellent in Both the St Kilda and WC games, and his 'quieter' game was when when we ran rampant over the power - a less structured game in anyone's language.

Against St Kilda - 12 poessessions; 8 marks (many contested) 4 goals
against West Coast - 19 possessions; 10 marks (again many contested) 3 goals
he still kicked 2 goals against port.
9 goals in 3 games, mostly from contested marks, is a great return for a workman forward in finals. above his regular season averages i.e. he averaged 1 goal a game regular season, and in finals 3 goals a game. given our so so finals effort, this is a damned fine return.

so can we now put away this blatant untruth you've been pushing recently about him being exposed in finals.

let's stick to the basic facts that he has not been in great form. the argument is whether he brings more than just raw statistics to the party.

3. My point on Kenny (and people are not listening) is that he's not indespensible as you Stiffy have suggested last year as a contender for AA CHB ....

you're getting confused here. he played forward for large tracts of last year. in 2003, Malthouse listed him as his pick for AA chb - so not so laughable. in 2004 he started to get the recognition he earnt in 2003.

sorry had to laugh at that. He's a workhorse ALA Mensch from Geelong who I also could never work out how he got a game as he only occasionly did something....anything!.

should you be laughing, when by your own admission, you've volunteered another player you got wrong?

you couldn't work it out, but the geelong match committee in a period of great success, could? this is not an endorsement for your view.

But he played a lot of games and obviously structure was a buzzword at Geelong who won how many flags during Mensch's period at the club????

yes, I've often thought it was all David Mensch's fault. given how much success they had in this period, this is a ridiculous assertion.

Back on sermon....I rate players as they would be benchmarked against players from other clubs and whether as a forward he could be a game winner.
IMO he's a perfect backup player, a depth player and when injuries occur he can fill a number of rolls....but is he the superstar that people were making him out to be over the last couple of years....hell no! and yes he could easiliy have the game pass him by as the pace continues to increase each year.

if the game is passing him by, how do you explain his excellent form in 2003/2004/2005? or is that filtered through the one eye open, fingers in the ears, la la la la, I can't hear you, see no evil, WW scale of assessment?

what I can't work out is how someone like you, who clearly knows a thing or two, often has some very good judgement and insights, can have such recalcitrant blind spots in the face of all evidence?

 

[Crow-mo]

Footnote:

everyone says the game is getting quicker each and every year......why then benchmark a player from 3 years ago to demonstrate how he has performed.

because his best season to date was in 2005.

It maybe that the game has quickened up to a degree where Kenny is struggling to get to enough contests......is he injured....aren't they all to a degree this time of year, but they all have to perform in the finals if we're to get the flag!

again, lay off this kenny no good in finals malarkey.

 

[Crow-mo]

my minds not closed - give me a counter argument other than structure

or...

2 + 2 = 4

ok that point is true, I concede but give me another argument: that's only 1 answer!!!!

when the answer is what it is, it's childish to say that's not enough.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Okay.

Craig has faith in Kenny and says that he is doing the job he's asked to do. Raised by Craig unasked in a press conference to try to silence the knockers like you, who's attitude he said he can't understand.

My eyes can see the role that he's playing and I've expressed that many times. I agree with Craig.

WW says he's very ordinary. Too slow etc etc

Choice: What I see and what Craig tells us. OR WW's jaundiced opinion of Kenny.

It's as easy as that.

What exactly is that role though?

 

[macca23]

What exactly is that role though?

Mate - just read the previous 3 million posts on this non-issue across countless threads and you'll find it stated there. Many times!!

I'm done with trying to graft eyes and ears onto the blind and deaf on this topic!!