Toast Kern Mother ******* Hinkley

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Enviable Tradition

Professional Procrastinator
Oct 12, 2007
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There is plenty we could have done. Only the non thinking give up.

In October 2015 we sit down and ask what if Ryder gets 2 years - ASADA had already appealed to CAS? What if Lobbe also picks up an injury like he has in the past for every year apart from 2014? What is our insurance policy/policies??

We then should have taken out an insurance policy, you know like WCE did when they offered a 300+ game Petrie a rookie contract at the end of 2016 after Nick Nat did his knee in the last game in 2016 and was going to miss all of 2017.

They already had Lycett, Jonathon Giles and young forward/ruck Fraser McInnes. So not only did they get insurance in Petrie they double insured and got Nathan Vardy for the main list. Who were their ruckmen come finals 2017?? Lycett and Giles? No it was Vardy and Petrie. Lycett got injured in 2017 and only played 1 game - he had a history of injuries. Did they use their CHB Jeremy McGovern to ruck for 16-18 games?

So either by a trade, or by the national draft, or by the preseason draft, or by the rookie draft, we could have picked up an insurance ruckman to be an insurance ruckman just like a Petrie, who was on a 1 year deal. Sure he would have got paid more than a standard rookie, but he got a 1 year deal. They cut him at the end of 2017.

So we lacked the intellectual horse power to do what if scenarios. That's why we weren't going to win in 2016 without Ryder. You don't need to make a $6mil a year profit like WCE, to think and be smart rather than just hope for the best.

But no we didn't think, we didn't plan. We stupidly said it wont happen and if it does, the AFL are good blokes and will help us out, despite drafting Ryder knowing the cloud over his head.
And we need to be very careful about managing our ruck stocks now so we dont end up back there.

There is no way we should be letting more than one of them go and really if we let one of the young ones go it is effectively 2 when Ryder retires.

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TeeKray

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The biggest problem with 2016 was that not only did we lose Ryder (our #1 ruck) and Monfries (83 goals in his 3 years to date at Port), we then experienced the worst injury run of any of the Hinkley years just to compound the problems created by the WADA suspensions even further. Of all the Hinkley years, I'm happy to give him a mulligan on that one.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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The biggest problem with 2016 was that not only did we lose Ryder (our #1 ruck) and Monfries (83 goals in his 3 years to date at Port), we then experienced the worst injury run of any of the Hinkley years just to compound the problems created by the WADA suspensions even further. Of all the Hinkley years, I'm happy to give him a mulligan on that one.
Indeed and I wrote that in my reply to The Burger King about 2016. When we played the eventual premiers - Bulldogs in Rd 12 and lost by 3 pts, in what I reckon is our most honourable loss in the last decade, we basically played our SANFL defence because we had so many injuries plus players missing elsewhere on the ground.

But the problem started before the pre-season even started, when we didn't plan for the worst case scenario with Ryder and Monfries. That to me is where the malaise really set in. Some will say it started earlier in 2015, but we started our annual big review and took a she'll be right attitude.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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I also recall in 2015 that we had the hardest schedule in AFL history. Like only a few double up against non finalists.
I don't know how you even measure that, but we started 3-2 with a very hard draw against 4 finalists Freo away, Syd home, NM away, Hawks home and then the showdown. But then it dropped away.

We played 13 games against the 8 finalist ie 8 who made it + 5 double up games but Adelaide and Bulldogs didn't make finals in 2014, but did in 2015 didn't help.

We played the grand finalists as doubles based on great games produced in 2014 against them, but its not unusual that Prelim final sides play 2 of the 3 of the other sides that made the Prelim twice the next year. Freo was the other double up game. We had a 6-7 record in these 13 games, helped by wins in Rd 21 v Hawks and Rd 23 v Peel Thunder when they had made the finals and were safe, and they were effectively our finals games.

The stuff up really was losing to cellar dwellers Brisbane and Carlton by Rd 12. We were 6-9 after losing the Phil Walsh showdown and season over. I did a spreadsheet of wins/losses against top 4, 5-8, 9-14 and bottom 4, at end of 2015 season and we were the only team in the top 9 sides, who lost a game to the bottom 4 teams - Essendon, Gold Coast, Brisbane and Carlton. There were no excuses for those 2 losses to Brisbane and Carlton.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Indeed and I wrote that in my reply to The Burger King about 2016. When we played the eventual premiers - Bulldogs in Rd 12 and lost by 3 pts, in what I reckon is our most honourable loss in the last decade, we basically played our SANFL defence because we had so many injuries plus players missing elsewhere on the ground.

But the problem started before the pre-season even started, when we didn't plan for the worst case scenario with Ryder and Monfries. That to me is where the malaise really set in. Some will say it started earlier in 2015, but we started our annual big review and took a she'll be right attitude.
I think what people are taking issue with is the idea that if we'd recruited some spud like Jake Spencer or Sam Baulderstone it would've made any difference to our fortunes that year.

Let's put it this way. Who would you have recruited that was a) available, b) would've been willing to come to Port to sit as third banana behind Ryder and Lobbe (keeping in mind the trade and draft periods were before we knew Ryder was suspended) and c) would've done a better job for us than Trengove did?

Trengove going into the ruck was also the reason we were able to get our first extended look at Tom Clurey in the seniors too. That's more of a happy accident than anything else, but it's worth mentioning.
 

Marmozet

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Apr 10, 2014
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Indeed and I wrote that in my reply to The Burger King about 2016. When we played the eventual premiers - Bulldogs in Rd 12 and lost by 3 pts, in what I reckon is our most honourable loss in the last decade, we basically played our SANFL defence because we had so many injuries plus players missing elsewhere on the ground.

But the problem started before the pre-season even started, when we didn't plan for the worst case scenario with Ryder and Monfries. That to me is where the malaise really set in. Some will say it started earlier in 2015, but we started our annual big review and took a she'll be right attitude.
Yep.

"We concede there can be honour in defeat, but to each of us, honourable defeat of our club and guernsey can only come after human endeavour on the playing field is completely exhausted".

That was a loss you can roll out the Creed for if I've ever seen one.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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I think what people are taking issue with is the idea that if we'd recruited some spud like Jake Spencer or Sam Baulderstone it would've made any difference to our fortunes that year.

Let's put it this way. Who would you have recruited that was a) available, b) would've been willing to come to Port to sit as third banana behind Ryder and Lobbe (keeping in mind the trade and draft periods were before we knew Ryder was suspended) and c) would've done a better job for us than Trengove did?
I don't even know where to find a list of those players who were cut at the end of 2015.

I also don't recall who the rucks at state league level available were all around Australia.

That was our full time recruiters jobs to know that. Not mine.

Why did Sydney find Sam Naismith playing in a very weak Sydney league, wasn't even dominating the SAFL, at the end of 2014, who was good enough to play in the 2016 Grand Final?? Because they went looking! They had a strategy. They had an idea and went seeking a solution to find a back up.

What I didn't know at the time and obviously West Coast did the next year, was that you could pay Rookie's a lot more than the Rookie listed wages and that there was a clause in the CBA which said that a set base payment amount was outside the salary cap and any excess base payment was included in the salary cap. That's why they went and got Petrie and paid him more than the base payment to do a back up job. He had value.

Did we go thru the Petrie scenario at the end of 2015 with an equivalent veteran who had just been cut and we could stick on list for 1 year and were prepared to pay more than the base Rookie payment?? Did we even know we could do what West Coast did?

Who did we have for Jacko to practice against at training once Frampton and Lobbe were injured? Johnathan Ross IIRC. They say you play like you train. What sort of match practice did part time Maggies player provide for Jacko to play like?

Jacko did a pretty good job. But have a look at his record, gets pumped up for a game. Plays well, but because he isn't built like a ruck gets battered and bruised and plays poorly the second week. By the time the odd numbered week comes up his body is healing and he has another good game going hard at it, then the even numbered week he struggles.

I don't recall him having 2 big games in a row, like he did in his first game against Stephan Martin at Adelaide Oval, but he might have, but I know he didn't have 3 big games in a row.

Trengove going into the ruck was also the reason we were able to get our first extended look at Tom Clurey in the seniors too. That's more of a happy accident than anything else, but it's worth mentioning.
No it wasn't.

Carlile only played the first 2 games. Hombsch only played the first 10 games and Jonas only played the first 9 games for the season. That's why I keep saying after the middle of the season we were playing our SANFL defence - most of them. Clurey would have played to cover any one of Carlile, Hombsch or Jonas. Jacko would have anchored our defence if he didn't have to ruck.

I put up this spreadsheet in September 2016 in the thread I started of the injuries, games missed and games played to our best 24 players (as at the start of the season) and listed how many games played by the others.

 

Enviable Tradition

Professional Procrastinator
Oct 12, 2007
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After Essendon streamrolled us at AAMI with a 6 goal to 0 last quarter, they were 11-4 and were only percentage off 4th spot. They then lost by 67, 94, 4, 24, 96, 45 & 32 points to end the season on a 0-6 streak to finish 11-11 and 11th.
That's so Ports to lose to them before the streak.

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