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Key Forward

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Kaney321 said:
Dan Stewart delisted from Port. Get it done.
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I would laugh if that happened.

Nathan Blee was de-listed at Port as well tall enough to be a key defender at 192cm. Maybe we can turn him into a key forward?

I have said this before and I will say it again... Considering this will be a draft with very few key Position players, let alone key forwards. Freo will use their 1st round pick to get the best available key forward or at Worst use a 2nd round pick to get one.
 
BeinPurplenGreen said:
Zaarke, Griff, Bradley, Sandi and Pav as proven tall forwards.

Mayne and one of Crozier/Fyfe/Mello as the mid talls.

Ballas, Walters and Neale as small forwards.

Ma-Ta, Howson and Moeller all have a chance to develop as tall young forwards.

Simpson to come on as a small forward flanker.

We do have a bit of light at the end of the "tunnel", we ain't Melbourne, Bulldogs or Brisbane.
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Can we stop being desperate? Without any disrespect Clarke, Griffin, Sandilands, Neale, Fyfe and Moller aren't forwards. We need to draft key forwards, ruckman don't cut it. Also quality inside mids should play mainly as inside mids.

I do somewhat agree with you though. We can't just panic and draft hacks cos they're tall forwards. Perhaps we will have to play ruckman as forwards for a year or two but we'll be a far better side when we don't.
 
Docker82 said:
Can we stop being desperate? Without any disrespect Clarke, Griffin, Sandilands, Neale, Fyfe and Moller aren't forwards. We need to draft key forwards, ruckman don't cut it. Also quality inside mids should play mainly as inside mids.

I do somewhat agree with you though. We can't just panic and draft hacks cos they're tall forwards. Perhaps we will have to play ruckman as forwards for a year or two but we'll be a far better side when we don't.
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Oh FFS...

Get this - no "tall forward" ever magically kicks 19 goals a game by themselves and single-handedly wins a premiership. Goals from resting rucks, midfielders, and half-forward flankers have actually won far more finals and grannys than any stand out "KPF" performances ever have. For every Sumich, Hall or Lynch, there are 19 Matthew Richardsons.

We are much, much better letting Griff, Zaarke and Croz/Fyfe/Ballas/Walters be the scoring power for us than betting on some magic tall forward/KPF to solve all our "problems". Which, by the way, we don't have so long as we keep being so stingy on defense...
 
BeinPurplenGreen said:
Oh FFS...

Get this - no "tall forward" ever magically kicks 19 goals a game by themselves and single-handedly wins a premiership. Goals from resting rucks, midfielders, and half-forward flankers have actually won far more finals and grannys than any stand out "KPF" performances ever have. For every Sumich, Hall or Lynch, there are 19 Matthew Richardsons.

We are much, much better letting Griff, Zaarke and Croz/Fyfe/Ballas/Walters be the scoring power for us than betting on some magic tall forward/KPF to solve all our "problems". Which, by the way, we don't have so long as we keep being so stingy on defense...
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I understand what you are saying but when pavs played this year we've looked a better side even when he doesn't score any goals. I'm not pretending I think we'll replace pav and I don't expect anymore than a 35 goal a year forward but the fact is it's my belief we'll be much better with a b grader down there than we would be with a ruckman. I understand you don't think we can land another teams key forward for next year and we probably can't but the club is clearly trying to land one. We have inquired into Black, White and Gumbleton if you believe reports. It was confirmed that we were into Black today when he signed.

I'll give you a challenge. Name a team that won a premiership without a key forward. Even Sydney last year had LRT and Reid down there. Many teams with ordinary key forwards win premierships, teams without them don't.
 

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Bulldust. Not one winning Gf since the one Lynch won for the Lions has been decided by a pure forward on their own. In every case since then, any pure KPF impact has been more than offset by midfield and HFF/HBF impacts.

Fact is, no team gets to the big dance without having a backline capable of shutting down any individual "KPF legend" types. Hence why Gary Ablett Senior and Matthew Richardson never won premierships...
 
Docker82 said:
I'll give you a challenge. Name a team that won a premiership without a key forward. Even Sydney last year had LRT and Reid down there. Many teams with ordinary key forwards win premierships, teams without them don't.
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I'm not quite sure what kind of challenge that is. Because every team has a key forward or two. Whether good or bad. So of course every team that wins a premiership is going to have a key forward.
 
BeinPurplenGreen said:
Bulldust. Not one winning Gf since the one Lynch won for the Lions has been decided by a pure forward on their own. In every case since then, any pure KPF impact has been more than offset by midfield and HFF/HBF impacts.

Fact is, no team gets to the big dance without having a backline capable of shutting down any individual "KPF legend" types. Hence why Gary Ablett Senior and Matthew Richardson never won premierships...
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I don't think you understood me 100%. We don't need a gun key forward. We just need someone who can provide a contest and apply some defensive pressure. I don't see the defensive pressure side of things covered by a ruckman (Moller may be an exception but he's years away) and don't see a contest provided by small forwards when marked up on key defenders unless the kick is perfect. I think we both agree a superstar won't come to the club any time soon and that may be a good thing as teams win premierships not a KFF. Most good teams have at least solid KFFs though. I don't believe ruckmen will cut it, I think we'll have it agree to disagree on this and just wait and see what the club does.
 
Alfonz said:
I'm not quite sure what kind of challenge that is. Because every team has a key forward or two. Whether good or bad. So of course every team that wins a premiership is going to have a key forward.
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That's exactly what I'm saying mate, teams without a proper key forward don't make it to a gf, see the bulldogs pre Barry Hall. They had a jet midfield and solid defence too.
 
It's obvious we want one. The club has wanted one for a few years such is the foresight of our recruiting team.

Not getting one (yet) is disappointing but hardly worth losing sleep over. Besides Tippett most KPFs in the game aren't clunking everything that comes to them (and the Swans are more dangerous without him). Instead, the Roughies, Cameron's, Cloaks etc either create contests, create space or lead into opportunity.

This is something that the coaching staff we look into over the offseason in great detail. How to provide these things that FPF's provide without having one. I have no doubt we will have a solid contingency plan.

I'm a Hannath fan so my money is still on him.

ONE MORE SLEEP TO GO!!
 
How many did Buddy kick again tonight??

How many did Hawkins or Pods kick again tonight????

Once again, shows that no real benefit in punting all the cards on some magic KPF - the win will always, always come from the mids, half backs and half forwards...
 
BeinPurplenGreen said:
How many did Buddy kick again tonight??

How many did Hawkins or Pods kick again tonight????

Once again, shows that no real benefit in punting all the cards on some magic KPF - the win will always, always come from the mids, half backs and half forwards...
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Roughead.

That being said, Gunston and Hale were very good.
 

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Wigarus said:
Roughead.

That being said, Gunston and Hale were very good.
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Indeed, Roughead also did nothing of note.

And (as noted by me above) the ruckmen forward (Hale in this case) was the decisive difference - Vardy was great for the Cats too. In MHO, Griff, Zaaarke, Hannath, and Moeller will be a key part of our attacking structure difference in the next few years. Many top 4 backlines can lock down a Hawkins, a Reiwoldt or a Buddy. Very few can stop an on song Sandi or Zaaarke.

Gunston is a great example of the mid-level, mid-frame, mid-height, mid-forward that the modern AFL game really favours (see also N Fyfe, C Wingard, J Kennedy (Swans), Bruest, McGuane, etc
 
pokerspiv said:
Roughhead forced Geelong to play Harry Taylor on him. That's something.
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exactly the point of a kpf. Imagine Mcpharlin running around the backline on some little tiwig intercepting marks everywhere. If just playing a resting ruck iit could happen IE) DAWSON.
Ibbotson or somebody could play on a Tall Midfielder.
 
As has been said forward targets win games. If that's a key forward depends on the day. There's times you need one and times you don't. I hate that time to be a gf.

The Gunston example is a good one. He's not quite a key forward but kinda is in a way. What he is is a proper forward who knows where to lead and what to do to get the ball in his or his teams hands. Ruckmen and midfielders often lack these skills. Most of our apart from maybe Fyfe and Clarke do also.

The more I think of it the more I reckon Jonathan Marsh would be a fantastic pick up for us as he is not quite a key forward but will provide a contest and a target and is a natural forward. He's got weight on him so may only take him around 2-3 years to be a truly afl standard player.
 
Docker82 said:
As has been said forward targets win games. If that's a key forward depends on the day. There's times you need one and times you don't. I hate that time to be a gf.

The Gunston example is a good one. He's not quite a key forward but kinda is in a way. What he is is a proper forward who knows where to lead and what to do to get the ball in his or his teams hands. Ruckmen and midfielders often lack these skills. Most of our apart from maybe Fyfe and Clarke do also.

The more I think of it the more I reckon Jonathan Marsh would be a fantastic pick up for us as he is not quite a key forward but will provide a contest and a target and is a natural forward. He's got weight on him so may only take him around 2-3 years to be a truly afl standard player.
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And could rotate through the midfield if things dont go our way.
Fyfe forward him Middle or Mora forward or a change could be made.
Versatility is something we should be looking to gift LYon as he is a genius
 

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Its not how many they kick, the important part is having them and what they give to structures.
Creating a contest when out numbered etc to bring the ball to ground instead of allowing oppositions to mark it.
Allowing other forwards more space and less defenders etc.

They can kick 0 goals and still be very effective.

Look at the 2nd half of the last game.
We were bombing it deep and Pav was getting outnumbered, he created a contest on most occasions and didnt allow the oppposition to mark it.

They are crucial.
Espoecially in high pressure finals footy where it can be hard to find time and space to pinpoint short passes.
 

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