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Key Forward

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Kram81 said:
Even if Watts comes good it will never be as a 'key' forward.

I'd consider taking a punt on him if you got him for peanuts but given his profile that's not going happen so the bloke is not even worth talking about..
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I strongly disagree. Was at the recent Melbourne game.I thought Watts looked every bit the natural key forward. At one point in the game he was able to take a mark after being quicker on a lead then mcpharlin. Sydney won last years premiership because they identified underutilzed talents from other clubs, and then recruited the players they identified. Recruiting this guy seems a no brainer to me as i think lyon will get the best out of him.
Watts was regarded as a natural forward in his junior days and i have zero doubt he would be an awesome recruit with the right coaching.
 

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As said before I don't think Watts is worth what his profile will demand (and I'd be surprised if he's willing to head west anyway) but I still don't think it's right to underestimate the Melbourne factor either. Lyon to Freo is proof enough that Coach, training, gameplan and the team around you all have a massive impact on personal performances, and the more inexperienced/developing the player the greater the impact.
 
sherrif said:
I strongly disagree. Was at the recent Melbourne game.I thought Watts looked every bit the natural key forward. At one point in the game he was able to take a mark after being quicker on a lead then mcpharlin.
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Oh please.

And replay that scenario 100 times, and McP, Richards, Carlisle, MacKenzie etc, etc would spoil, outmark, out-muscle him for the next 99 times.

Natural Key forward my arse.
 
whiteoak said:
I think that's most of the problem.

People are all up in arms at out KPP stocks and are jumping at any log over 192cm's and 85kg's, despite their obvious deficiencies.

The SAME people were saying this prior to Kep and Griff going down, yet we still seem to be going ok, although it's not ideal.

I don't think that it's quite as bad as some people think, and we certainly don't need/won't pull the trigger on any crab that physically suits our requirements.
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So basically If Pav is Injured, you still think freo can win the grand final with heavily relying on Ballantyne, Mayne and Walters?

You shot me down for my opinion of Kossie which is Fair enough. Lets get this straight, If Freo did Pinch Jesse White from the Swans last season, I'm certain he would be playing against the lions. I will say it again, let see how well he can play from now until the end of the season.
 
Freomaniac said:
So basically If Pav is Injured, you still think freo can win the grand final with heavily relying on Ballantyne, Mayne and Walters?

You shot me down for my opinion of Kossie which is Fair enough. Lets get this straight, If Freo did Pinch Jesse White from the Swans last season, I'm certain he would be playing against the lions. I will say it again, let see how well he can play from now until the end of the season.
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No. I'm saying that Jessie White is a crab who would struggle to push out Jack Hannath on exposed form this year, and on his form throughout his career.

I didn't mention Pav or the GF at all.
 
whiteoak said:
No. I'm saying that Jessie White is a crab who would struggle to push out Jack Hannath on exposed form this year, and on his form throughout his career.

I didn't mention Pav or the GF at all.
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Ok Wrong choice of words.... We would have a better Forward line with a half decent tall forward Like Jesse white than no tall forward at all.

Call Jesse White a crab All you want... But if we somehow do get him, he could somehow fit in out forward line and that's even if we have 2 ruckmen on the 22.
 
I agree with you we need a 2nd REAL key forward.
I believe that is our only weakness and if we fixed that we are easily a top 2 team.
Jesse White is not the answer though.
Not even sure if i would play him ahead of Keps.
I would play him ahead of Clarke as a key forward though.

Finals footy is where 2 good key forwards really show thier value.
The pressure is so intense forwards cant rely on great kicks to their advantage or into space.
They need to be able to take contested marks or crash packs hard getting the ball down to the smalls.
 
But why waste the effort in bringing someone like White here? He might not cost much in salary or draft picks, but I still don't see the point. I'd rather just have a rookie on minimum wage on the list. I don't think he would improve the side at all. Highly doubtful he would give us any more than Hannath or Silvagni, not to mention he would be a list clogger as soon as any of our injured talls return.
 
Alfonz said:
But why waste the effort in bringing someone like White here? He might not cost much in salary or draft picks, but I still don't see the point. I'd rather just have a rookie on minimum wage on the list. I don't think he would improve the side at all. Highly doubtful he would give us any more than Hannath or Silvagni, not to mention he would be a list clogger as soon as any of our injured talls return.
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Lets get this straight, you want to get a rookie right? Ok fair enough. Would you want another KPP on the rookie list? Now Keep in mind Pav Might retire as soon as 2014 which is next season. It Took Zac Clarke 3-4 seasons until we was fully developed.

Getting Jack Hannath in the PSD was in retrospect a good idea. When this season started I personally didnt expect Kep and Big Griff to be out for the season with knee injuries by round 10. I dont think anyone else did either. Both of these guys wont comeback until the middle of next season. Imagine if we didn't pick up Hannath? Zac Clarke would be doing most of the ruck duties until Sandi returns. To be a decent team, you need depth around the whole squad.

Now what I think we should do... My opinion is that we get Jesse White on a 2 year deal on a small wage. While at the same time we develop Tarberner and Howson. If Jesse White fails like Jack Anthony did before then at least we got Plan B: Tarberner and Howson have bulked up to their proper playing weight in 2 years time. Also Bradley will be close to 30 and near the end of his career as well.
 
I'm saying I'd rather have a rookie (and not necessarily a KPP) than Jesse White specifically. Some other KPF who has proved they are OK, that is a different story.

White playing 1 decent game in 3-4 years is not enough to make me think he is someone to chase. If he was able to stay in the Swans lineup and put in some consistent performances, then I would reconsider.
 

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From a recruiters perspective I'd say trying to 'moneyball' a KPF would be one of the hardest jobs to do.
It's ended badly more often than not for most who are trying to pull off the great player heist.

We have 2 things in our favour here, a gameplan that is reliant on the teeth all being teeth to form a magnificant cog and some space in our salary cap to potentially upgrade said teeth.

We will all hypothesize about who's available, who's worth a shot, who's form is on the up etc and I hope to hell that Lloydy and co are doing the same each night.

My thoughts being there are 3 options ( in order of preference )
1. Grab the established KPF ( Buddy )
2. Identify and poach a developing KPF from another AFL list, hoping that your timing is impeccable as we need an impact from the get-go in 2014 ( we missed Aaron Black here, value has now been identified by NM and contractually hard to budge ),
3. Identify and grab a proven / rising KPF from the league below ( earlier mention of Ben Brown ( I think it was ) for example )

In the meantime we have Taberner and to a lesser degree Smith boiling away on the pot which can hopefully become an important ingredient in the mix.

I'm having faith that the club will have plans A,B and C all in place by seasons end - and hoping to be pleasantly surprised after trade period
 
whiteoak said:
No. I'm saying that Jessie White is a crab who would struggle to push out Jack Hannath on exposed form this year, and on his form throughout his career.
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Yep, i actually think the White / Hannath comparison.
I dont rate Jack that highly (sorry, i know i'm in the minority here) but Jesse White is a deadset hack. He was on his way to Adelaide last year but failed a medical so thats obviously a ??? on him as well.
 
DMan 11 said:
From a recruiters perspective I'd say trying to 'moneyball' a KPF would be one of the hardest jobs to do.
It's ended badly more often than not for most who are trying to pull off the great player heist.

We have 2 things in our favour here, a gameplan that is reliant on the teeth all being teeth to form a magnificant cog and some space in our salary cap to potentially upgrade said teeth.

We will all hypothesize about who's available, who's worth a shot, who's form is on the up etc and I hope to hell that Lloydy and co are doing the same each night.

My thoughts being there are 3 options ( in order of preference )
1.5 Grab the established KPF ( Buddy )
2. Identify and poach a developing KPF from another AFL list, hoping that your timing is impeccable as we need an impact from the get-go in 2014 ( we missed Aaron Black here, value has now been identified by NM and contractually hard to budge ),
3. Identify and grab a proven / rising KPF from the league below ( earlier mention of Ben Brown ( I think it was ) for example )

In the meantime we have Taberner and to a lesser degree Smith boiling away on the pot which can hopefully become an important ingredient in the mix.

I'm having faith that the club will have plans A,B and C all in place by seasons end - and hoping to be pleasantly surprised after trade period
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 
Freomaniac said:
Lets get this straight, you want to get a rookie right? Ok fair enough. Would you want another KPP on the rookie list? Now Keep in mind Pav Might retire as soon as 2014 which is next season. It Took Zac Clarke 3-4 seasons until we was fully developed.

Getting Jack Hannath in the PSD was in retrospect a good idea. When this season started I personally didnt expect Kep and Big Griff to be out for the season with knee injuries by round 10. I dont think anyone else did either. Both of these guys wont comeback until the middle of next season. Imagine if we didn't pick up Hannath? Zac Clarke would be doing most of the ruck duties until Sandi returns. To be a decent team, you need depth around the whole squad.

Now what I think we should do... My opinion is that we get Jesse White on a 2 year deal on a small wage. While at the same time we develop Tarberner and Howson. If Jesse White fails like Jack Anthony did before then at least we got Plan B: Tarberner and Howson have bulked up to their proper playing weight in 2 years time. Also Bradley will be close to 30 and near the end of his career as well.
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Look, we all understand that our KPP stocks are far from ideal at this point in time.

But pretty much weekly, you identify a crab from another team, (Kosi, Watts, and now White), and advocate for us to grab them.

Just because someone is big does not mean that they are good.
 
DMan 11 said:
2. Identify and poach a developing KPF from another AFL list, hoping that your timing is impeccable as we need an impact from the get-go in 2014 ( we missed Aaron Black here, value has now been identified by NM and contractually hard to budge ),
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This one is very hard to pull off as you basically have to make a play for guys before they establish themselves so there is still a pretty high risk component involved.

Our Mason Wood is in a very similar position to Black albeit a few years earlier, although he is only a first year draftee he has pretty much the same attributes of Black and is probably tracking better in terms of VFL progression at the same stage because he hasn't had the injuries Black had to deal with early. It is still very much unknown if he is going to take that next step or to the same extent, but he would be the type of player and the type of stage of development where you would have to make the play for in that category.
 

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That does sound interesting. Judging by that interview he has grown up a hell of a lot and the fact he is coaching and leading other men bodes well. Definitely one I'd take a closer look at.
 
go_the_dockers said:
How is his speed? contested marking?

If he is quick, and can take a big mark then yes.
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Yes his speed and marking were a feature....his problem was attitude and injury (as well as being stuck behind two super players in Franklin and Roughhead).
 
go_the_dockers said:
How is his speed? contested marking?

If he is quick, and can take a big mark then yes.
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It was attitude for this guy. Thorpe rated himself higher than he was due. He told Tom Harley he was going to end his career in a VFL match, Harley went on to win a premiership and Thorpe was delisted.
 
Tayl0r said:
It was attitude for this guy. Thorpe rated himself higher than he was due. He told Tom Harley he was going to end his career in a VFL match, Harley went on to win a premiership and Thorpe was delisted.
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He should just stick to swimming.
 
whiteoak said:
Look, we all understand that our KPP stocks are far from ideal at this point in time.

But pretty much weekly, you identify a crab from another team, (Kosi, Watts, and now White), and advocate for us to grab them.

Just because someone is big does not mean that they are good.
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I do recall myself going after Kosi. I do not remember posting about getting watts unless you can quote me on that. We won easily today in the end but I was interested id Tabs could of had a run today. Fair enough on your opinion about Just because someone is big, does not mean they are good.

Answer my question, Do you expect Freo to win a grand final or at the very least go deep into finals without a tall key Forward?

Learn from other teams mistakes Whiteoak.

Eagles struggled to get to a flag from 2002-4 because they did not have a Key Forward. Then a big lump of crap named Quentin Lynch kick 65 goals in that 2006 season where they won the flag. He still kicked 52 goals in 24 games the next season.

You can't deny Freo need an experienced key forward at the end of the season. If you think a fully fit Kepler Bradley is going to kick 60 goals in one season then your sadly mistaken.
 

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