Key Forward

[Kunna17]

think mumfords out of contract at end of year, could be a target although more of a ruckmen has a strong pair of hands. Would you guys be keen or would you prefer a genuine key-forward but maybe not as proven a performer??

 

[Kunna17]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...fremantles-radar/story-fni5f6su-1226678931587

Freo's offer is enticing, at near his asking price and for four years and some top-end Dockers are believed to be willing to restructure their contracts to help entice the Tiger.
​

didnt actually read the article earlier however this last bit does sound promising yet unconvincing. Trying not to get my hoeps off coz not likely but i would love jack over here, I'd love any high profile key forward. This just shows how much of a team game we play now though, on and off the field.

 

[teamex]

think mumfords out of contract at end of year, could be a target although more of a ruckmen has a strong pair of hands. Would you guys be keen or would you prefer a genuine key-forward but maybe not as proven a performer??

you'd think it has to be a genuine KPF giving our current ruck stocks
with griffin, bradley (plays forward although no guaruntee to return from injury imo), clarke (plays forward), Hannath, (plays forward)

 

[Freomaniac]

That's our issue though. Our window is open. We've got Pav, a two year gaps and then prospects like Taberner, we hope will step (not commenting on his potential to do so). We need player to fill that two year gap and in my opinion. Jesse white is the best option we have considering value for money. We've likely missed all the big names. He's a fringe player at his current club with a long list of forwards ahead of him. While at our club he'd be playing THIS WEEK and in all liklihood will play for the time we spend waiting for a Taberner to step up

My thoughts exactly... I got shot down by whiteoak for suggesting Freo to get Jesse White. Look at the Situation now. Kepler is out for 12 months with a knee injury. Pav is at the end of his career and Tabs is only a rookie. Jesse white would be a good pick up.

As I said beggars can't be choosers. Give white a cheap 2 year contract. If he doesnt cut it then Tabs body will be ready for a full season of AFL.

 

[free at last]

My thoughts exactly... I got shot down by whiteoak for suggesting Freo to get Jesse White. Look at the Situation now. Kepler is out for 12 months with a knee injury. Pav is at the end of his career and Tabs is only a rookie. Jesse white would be a good pick up.

As I said beggars can't be choosers. Give white a cheap 2 year contract. If he doesnt cut it then Tabs body will be ready for a full season of AFL.

I'd be fine if we landed J.White....He definitely wouldn't unbalance our player payment model,we'd have heaps of coin to keep mundy satisfied and whoever else is commanding more coin.We could possibly make our midfield even more impressive via FA.

Draft and develop our own kpf's within.

 

[Docker82]

Would White get a game before Taberner, Hannath and Bradley?

Pavlich will play next year, so we only need him to fill a spot when he is injured or being rested.

White he may be an upgrade on those three players, I do not believe it is enough of an upgrade (if any) to use up a spot on our list.If we sign him which extra player will you delist?

The Jonathan Griffin comparison is actually a very good one. He was on the scrap heap at Adelaide. He was seen as slightly too good to be delisted but was not seen as part of their future and was not rated by anyone. What we got from Griffin was unexpected as he played a role as the no.1 ruck at Freo, something he'd never done at Adelaide.

Mitch Clark excelled when being played as solely a key forward, something Jesse White has barely had the opportunity to do. It's no coincidence his best games this year were when Pyke and Mumford were also in the side, meaning he could play solely as a key forward.

 

[Freo88]

My thoughts exactly... I got shot down by whiteoak for suggesting Freo to get Jesse White. Look at the Situation now. Kepler is out for 12 months with a knee injury. Pav is at the end of his career and Tabs is only a rookie. Jesse white would be a good pick up.

As I said beggars can't be choosers. Give white a cheap 2 year contract. If he doesnt cut it then Tabs body will be ready for a full season of AFL.

WAFL KPF's are better though, thats the difference. The bloke is not mobile and takes very few grabs. Why play him ahead of Tabs when it a perfect opportunity to develop him in the big time. It quite simply is a no brainer and i will eat my hat if our recuiters have even considered it.

 

[Lach72]

No way NM will accept that deal.
Black is one of the best KP forward prospects in the game. You don't trade players like that for peripheral best 22 players of the Suban /Sheridan ilk.

It would take something along the lines of Hill + Sheridan + 1st round pick. And it would probably require the consent of Black + him wanting to leave NM.

Ya what? He's not freakin' Chris Judd

 

[Freomaniac]

WAFL KPF's are better though, thats the difference. The bloke is not mobile and takes very few grabs. Why play him ahead of Tabs when it a perfect opportunity to develop him in the big time. It quite simply is a no brainer and i will eat my hat if our recuiters have even considered it.

We can do both. Rotate both Jesse White and Tabs as a 2nd forward with pav. Thats what I would do

 

[teamex]

wouldnt the plan be to play jesse and tabs? develop tabs against the second defender and when he's ready take the leap?

 

[theGav56]

It would take something along the lines of Hill + Sheridan + 1st round pick. And it would probably require the consent of Black + him wanting to leave NM.

That deal would get the #1 pick from GWS (ignoring that it doesn't specifically fit their needs). Black wouldn't.

 

[Docker82]

WAFL KPF's are better though, thats the difference. The bloke is not mobile and takes very few grabs. Why play him ahead of Tabs when it a perfect opportunity to develop him in the big time. It quite simply is a no brainer and i will eat my hat if our recuiters have even considered it.

No it isn't. Tabs is way too skinny to play afl and is no where near afl standard yet, not to mention odds are he won't make it anyway. White has proven he can play at afl level, wafl players haven't. Also curious as to who these players are. Most of the top kfs in the wafl have already failed at afl level and had a record far worse than White when playing at afl level.

Personally I want to use our first two picks on kpps but let's put these scenarios forward.
1. There aren't any decent kpps available. We end up with none or end up with spuds
2. They are available but have to play at afl too early, shattering their confidence, meaning we are back where we started except with no pav. Not to mention the team rapidly falling down the ladder.

A mature kf would help these guys out massively. I don't want an injury prone forward as they'll likely be injured and not help the situation. The kids we draft won't be Jeremy Cameron or Jesse Hogan, there's a reason these guys went as high as they did. They won't be ready to go and will suffer if played as the no.1 key forward.

 

[theGav56]

No it isn't. Tabs is way too skinny to play afl and is no where near afl standard yet, not to mention odds are he won't make it anyway. White has proven he can play at afl level, wafl players haven't. Also curious as to who these players are. Most of the top kfs in the wafl have already failed at afl level and had a record far worse than White when playing at afl level.

Personally I want to use our first two picks on kpps but let's put these scenarios forward.
1. There aren't any decent kpps available. We end up with none or end up with spuds
2. They are available but have to play at afl too early, shattering their confidence, meaning we are back where we started except with no pav. Not to mention the team rapidly falling down the ladder.

A mature kf would help these guys out massively. I don't want an injury prone forward as they'll likely be injured and not help the situation. The kids we draft won't be Jeremy Cameron or Jesse Hogan, there's a reason these guys went as high as they did. They won't be ready to go and will suffer if played as the no.1 key forward.

He has proven he is a depth player at afl level but is not a best 22 player. In the end it is a fine line between that and being a wafl player. It is simply about injury and opportunity. But I can't see the reason why the lobby to get him. This season we have demonstrated a great ability to win with an unnorthadox forward line and some midfield scoring.

Personally I don't care if we have a go at him or not. As you suggest he could find a role if injuries permit it. But for me that decision should be purely made based on Lyon's confidence in Clarke, Hannath and Taberner, plus whoever else comes on the radar. If any of them are a better option he becomes a wafl player.

 

[Alfonz]

I don't think Jesse White improves our side at all. I simply don't see the point in making an effort to bring such an average player over. It would be just like Jack Anthony again, only he is a bit taller and on lower salary.

 

[prattsta]

I don't think Jesse White improves our side at all. I simply don't see the point in making an effort to bring such an average player over. It would be just like Jack Anthony again, only he is a bit taller and on lower salary.

I somewhat agree. I think we either swing for the fences on a superstar (existing or future via a top draft pick) or don't bother. Bradley will be back next season. We've got plenty of average KPF that can play a role on our list already.

Taking a low cost gamble on a 'lots of potential, but hasn't delivered' type might work, but there aren't many out there. Even a Jack Watts type - who I mentioned earlier - would cost far more than I'd want to pay.

May as well continue down the Ruck/Fwd rotation backed up by a bunch of really talented med/small fwd/mids.

 

[clogged]

I think a good key forward is paramount to Lyon's gameplan. The side averages 100 points this year when Pavlich has played, 80 points when he hasn't. His use of Riewoldt was also key to the Saints fortunes. While he wasn't head coach at Sydney, Barry Hall was used in much the same way.

I think the makeshift option of second class talls and rucks might get through the regular season but won't take the side deep into finals. Against Geelong their defenders just picked off any forward entries with ease.

 

[prattsta]

I think a good key forward is paramount to Lyon's gameplan. The side averages 100 points this year when Pavlich has played, 80 points when he hasn't. His use of Riewoldt was also key to the Saints fortunes. While he wasn't head coach at Sydney, Barry Hall was used in much the same way.

Pavlich, Hall and Riewoldt are much better than 'good' key forwards though.

I think the makeshift option of second class talls and rucks might get through the regular season but won't take the side deep into finals. Against Geelong their defenders just picked off any forward entries with ease.

I see your point; the Geelong game isn't the best example. Our midfield/ruck was second rate that day. More clearances, more disposals, more F50s, more scoring opportunities etc

 

[clogged]

Pavlich, Hall and Riewoldt are much better than 'good' key forwards though.

Then that's the price Fremantle will have to pay. I can't see the side muddling through a finals series with Kepler or similar as the target.

I see your point; the Geelong game isn't the best example. Our midfield/ruck was second rate that day. More clearances, more disposals, more F50s, more scoring opportunities etc

Against Sydney that very thing happened yet with the only tall being Silvagni + ruckmen they easily cherry picked entries and rebounded off the back half for three quarters of the game until Freo's late rally.

 

[Freo Dr]

Jesse White is bog average after 7 seasons in the system - arguments about him not having enough time up forward are bollocks - most games I have seen him play were as a forward and he constantly looks like tarzan plays like Jane as a KPF. With another pre-season there will be very little that is better about him versus a slimmed down running Hannath, Bradley or Taberner or Griffin. So while he may be low cost he would also be low reward/average depth player.
If we cannot get a premium KPF via trade then someone like Mitch Thorpe has far more upside than White while we wait for Taberner/Howson and maybe another draftee to come on.

Also (and I realize this is a different argument but comes into the trade for big name player thing) I am rather keen on saving our dosh for a serious tilt at getting a real prize like O'meara next year. Lyon has said before we need another A grade midfielder still and while Michie, Crozier, Sutty and Simpson all show some promise calling them potential A grade is a stretch (Simpson the most talented but needs his head in the right place). Jaeger is the jizz.

 

[freo84]

Jesse White is bog average after 7 seasons in the system - arguments about him not having enough time up forward are bollocks - most games I have seen him play were as a forward and he constantly looks like tarzan plays like Jane as a KPF. With another pre-season there will be very little that is better about him versus a slimmed down running Hannath, Bradley or Taberner or Griffin. So while he may be low cost he would also be low reward/average depth player.
If we cannot get a premium KPF via trade then someone like Mitch Thorpe has far more upside than White while we wait for Taberner/Howson and maybe another draftee to come on.

Also (and I realize this is a different argument but comes into the trade for big name player thing) I am rather keen on saving our dosh for a serious tilt at getting a real prize like O'meara next year. Lyon has said before we need another A grade midfielder still and while Michie, Crozier, Sutty and Simpson all show some promise calling them potential A grade is a stretch (Simpson the most talented but needs his head in the right place). Jaeger is the jizz.

There is no chance that anyone but the Suns will ever be getting Jaeger O'meara. They will just continue to pay him whatever he wants. He is the next Ablett. You don't let that walk out of your club.

 

[Nothing]

There is no chance that anyone but the Suns will ever be getting Jaeger O'meara. They will just continue to pay him whatever he wants. He is the next Ablett. You don't let that walk out of your club.

Didn't Ablett's last club let him walk out?

 

[freo84]

Didn't Ablett's last club let him walk out?

True. I just cannot see how we would get our purple paws on him. I'd rather Jeremy Cameron tbh as he would fill our need for a forward. But i cant see us getting either one of them.

 

[Paracleet]

I'm in inclined to agree with freo84 on this one. Ablett doesn't really count since it was silly money and mostly from outside the cap. Apart from Judd and Buckley how many other AAA superstars have left their club (lets say since footy became professional, late 80's?) for another before they were over the hill or had slept with another players wife or had otherwise given themselves cause to get the boot? Those three are the exception that prove the rule if you ask me.

 

[estibador]

They players aren't going to be sanctioned in any meaningfull way. If they do it will go to court with the players association and straight away. The club will carry the can in the form of fines and possible points loss. Remember the AFL is not subject to any rules, other than voluntarily, other than it's own.

My understanding is they are subject to WADA rules because to be eligible for government funding they had to sign up. And if they withdraw from the WADA code they will lose that funding - that's if the funding didn't come with the condition they aren't allowed to withdraw.

 

[prattsta]

Then that's the price Fremantle will have to pay. I can't see the side muddling through a finals series with Kepler or similar as the target.

I agree with this. That is kind of my point though; if we're not bringing in a superstar it's not worth worrying about.

Against Sydney that very thing happened yet with the only tall being Silvagni + ruckmen they easily cherry picked entries and rebounded off the back half for three quarters of the game until Freo's late rally.

Fair point, even that wasn't the best Pavlich-less lineup we could field though. Silvagni isn't even in the same class as Bradley up forward. Clarke/Hannath is by no means our best ruck/forward combo either.

At any rate, I think we're on the same page. We need a really good KPF in order to compete with the best. At the moment we have Pavlich, after that?...