Remove this Banner Ad

Key Forward

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

So I'm assuming none of the Jesse White bashers on here are watching the Hawks game?

He is playing brilliantly and has kicked 2 in the first quarter so far with no Reid, no Tippet, no Goodes no LRT...


He was always going to be good enough to fit into our team the unfortunate situation is that he has well and truly shown it in the second half of this year and now might be out of our price range.

With any luck, Watts has just as much bubbling below the surface just waiting to be unleashed in a year or two wearing a purple jersey.
 
Wigarus said:
So I'm assuming none of the Jesse White bashers on here are watching the Hawks game?

He is playing brilliantly and has kicked 2 in the first quarter so far with no Reid, no Tippet, no Goodes no LRT...


He was always going to be good enough to fit into our team the unfortunate situation is that he has well and truly shown it in the second half of this year and now might be out of our price range.

With any luck, Watts has just as much bubbling below the surface just waiting to be unleashed in a year or two wearing a purple jersey.
Click to expand...

But if Roos is appointed at Melbourne, I don't reckon he'll be wanting to leave.
 
Hi, Swans fan here- forgive me for intruding but spotted the below and thought I'd add a some quick comments for context on your observations. I'm a fan of big Jesse, would rather see him stay at the club next year but if the salary cap squeeze is on for us (I understand it is) I can appreciate he may be toddling off elsewhere.

go_the_dockers said:
Key stats for me are
- 1 goal in 4 games when Sydney have lost.
Click to expand...
I understand you chaps are debating his merits as a key forward, of those 4 losses he's actually played as a backup ruck in 2 of those games so you could arguably say they aren't great examples of how he'd play as a permanent forward. Of those 2 games as a backup ruck;
  1. I thought he was generally fine against Hawthorn for his role- 10 disposals, 11 hitouts, 3 clearances, 4 tackles, kicked 1.1. At that point it was his first game for the year, tough opponent to come up against but it was pretty clear to folks watching that he had a pretty fair crack at it. He'd come in for Mummy who was then available again the next game (for the draw again you guys), if not he would have held his spot based on that performance.
  2. He wasn't great against Port, however the game was played in horrible conditions- the ground looked like a swimming pool and the ball was moving in the air like they were playing in a hurricane. Not great conditions for a big guy, but he did provide an outlet on the wing all game- he actually had a surprising number of spoils in that game, from memory, and that was from clearly doing what the coaching staff had told him and just crashing pack after pack on the wing to get the ball over the line as we banged it out of defence.
Of the 2 games where he wasn't also covering backup ruck duties, he had 13 disposals (Collingwood) and 12 disposals (Geelong)- that would mean he meets your criteria of contributing when he's not impacting on the scoreboard. ;) In both games he actually played quite well, and was generally playing further up the ground- if you're basing your appraisal on stats more than an eye test you can get an idea of that from him having more inside 50s than marks inside 50 across those games.

You could add the Hawks loss on Friday to that total now, so it's 4 goals from 5 losses.
go_the_dockers said:
- In a number of games, he only has single digit possessions which means if he is not contributing on the score board, then he is not contributing.
Click to expand...
I've taken a quick look, that "number" of single digit possessions is 3 in total- which I don't think is that awful for a big guy. Against;
  1. Port, awful conditions as I've mentioned above.
  2. Carlton, which was the following week from the Port swimming pool game and he played as a backup ruck again and was one of the wettest games I've seen. I remember it well, I went and got drenched. It wasn't a great game to rack up numbers as a big guy (although Tippett was pretty amazing in that game), and he was actually subbed off. From memory he was ill that week and was crook enough to not play but our cupboard was fairly bare for big guys so he toughed it out (Longmire acknowledged the effort).
  3. GWS, he kicked 3 goals so perhaps a moot point as obviously did contribute. He had 9 disposals in that game, and actually started as the sub and only played a half of footy so it's probably fair to think he would have grabbed that 1 extra touch somewhere if he'd played the whole game.
go_the_dockers said:
- He is only playing as the Third tall at the moment, I doubt he is capable of playing as a main focal point of the attack.
Click to expand...
It's tough to say if he's the second or third tall simply because he usually plays a long way up the ground; he's playing CHF, frequently lines up on the wing and is usually only a deep forward 50 target when resting- so still definitely playing as a forward, but just hard to gauge the pecking order between him and the resting ruckmen (I should add, Pyke and Mumford are both pretty handy tall forwards so there's no great shame in being behind them in the pecking order).
Small sample size I know, but he's had two games playing as the main focal point as a deep forward- against Adelaide (Tippett still suspended) and against Hawthorn on Friday night (Tippett rested). In both games he kicked 3 goals.
go_the_dockers said:
- He only kicked 16 goals in 11 games, and 10 have come from 3 games when Sydney have absolutely dominated a side, a. (3 Adelaide - 77 margin, 4 Richmond -47 point margin, 3 GWS - 129 margin)
Click to expand...
It's a fair point, but I do think that does speak more about our midfield getting on top and being able to actually hit targets than White (or any of the forwards, really). It's something we've struggled with this year, and it's been worse (ironically) with the introduction of Tippett as we try to integrate him to forward setups.
It's now 19 in 12 games, as I mentioned above he has played some of those games as a backup ruck- if you're focusing on production as a permanent forward and strip out those backup ruck games that would bring it down to 18 goals from 9 games (you could argue from 8.5, because he started as sub against GWS). So 13 goals from 4 games, 5 goals from the other 5- I don't think that's completely awful.

Anyway, apologies if it's a long post on a foreign board (I do read your board a bit, I'm quite fond of Freo)- the original post was well structured so gave something to be able to clearly respond to which led to my post being lengthy. Like I said, I like the guy and would much rather he stays with us- but given how he's performed this year I do think any team looking for a key forward for next year would be negligent not to at least consider him.

Best of luck for an upset at Kardinia Park next week.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

stellation said:
Hi, Swans fan here- forgive me for intruding but spotted the below and thought I'd add a some quick comments for context on your observations. I'm a fan of big Jesse, would rather see him stay at the club next year but if the salary cap squeeze is on for us (I understand it is) I can appreciate he may be toddling off elsewhere.


I understand you chaps are debating his merits as a key forward, of those 4 losses he's actually played as a backup ruck in 2 of those games so you could arguably say they aren't great examples of how he'd play as a permanent forward. Of those 2 games as a backup ruck;
  1. I thought he was generally fine against Hawthorn for his role- 10 disposals, 11 hitouts, 3 clearances, 4 tackles, kicked 1.1. At that point it was his first game for the year, tough opponent to come up against but it was pretty clear to folks watching that he had a pretty fair crack at it. He'd come in for Mummy who was then available again the next game (for the draw again you guys), if not he would have held his spot based on that performance.
  2. He wasn't great against Port, however the game was played in horrible conditions- the ground looked like a swimming pool and the ball was moving in the air like they were playing in a hurricane. Not great conditions for a big guy, but he did provide an outlet on the wing all game- he actually had a surprising number of spoils in that game, from memory, and that was from clearly doing what the coaching staff had told him and just crashing pack after pack on the wing to get the ball over the line as we banged it out of defence.
Of the 2 games where he wasn't also covering backup ruck duties, he had 13 disposals (Collingwood) and 12 disposals (Geelong)- that would mean he meets your criteria of contributing when he's not impacting on the scoreboard. ;) In both games he actually played quite well, and was generally playing further up the ground- if you're basing your appraisal on stats more than an eye test you can get an idea of that from him having more inside 50s than marks inside 50 across those games.


You could add the Hawks loss on Friday to that total now, so it's 4 goals from 5 losses.

I've taken a quick look, that "number" of single digit possessions is 3 in total- which I don't think is that awful for a big guy. Against;
  1. Port, awful conditions as I've mentioned above.
  2. Carlton, which was the following week from the Port swimming pool game and he played as a backup ruck again and was one of the wettest games I've seen. I remember it well, I went and got drenched. It wasn't a great game to rack up numbers as a big guy (although Tippett was pretty amazing in that game), and he was actually subbed off. From memory he was ill that week and was crook enough to not play but our cupboard was fairly bare for big guys so he toughed it out (Longmire acknowledged the effort).
  3. GWS, he kicked 3 goals so perhaps a moot point as obviously did contribute. He had 9 disposals in that game, and actually started as the sub and only played a half of footy so it's probably fair to think he would have grabbed that 1 extra touch somewhere if he'd played the whole game.
It's tough to say if he's the second or third tall simply because he usually plays a long way up the ground; he's playing CHF, frequently lines up on the wing and is usually only a deep forward 50 target when resting- so still definitely playing as a forward, but just hard to gauge the pecking order between him and the resting ruckmen (I should add, Pyke and Mumford are both pretty handy tall forwards so there's no great shame in being behind them in the pecking order).
Small sample size I know, but he's had two games playing as the main focal point as a deep forward- against Adelaide (Tippett still suspended) and against Hawthorn on Friday night (Tippett rested). In both games he kicked 3 goals.

It's a fair point, but I do think that does speak more about our midfield getting on top and being able to actually hit targets than White (or any of the forwards, really). It's something we've struggled with this year, and it's been worse (ironically) with the introduction of Tippett as we try to integrate him to forward setups.
It's now 19 in 12 games, as I mentioned above he has played some of those games as a backup ruck- if you're focusing on production as a permanent forward and strip out those backup ruck games that would bring it down to 18 goals from 9 games (you could argue from 8.5, because he started as sub against GWS). So 13 goals from 4 games, 5 goals from the other 5- I don't think that's completely awful.

Anyway, apologies if it's a long post on a foreign board (I do read your board a bit, I'm quite fond of Freo)- the original post was well structured so gave something to be able to clearly respond to which led to my post being lengthy. Like I said, I like the guy and would much rather he stays with us- but given how he's performed this year I do think any team looking for a key forward for next year would be negligent not to at least consider him.

Best of luck for an upset at Kardinia Park next week.
Click to expand...

Hey stellation, thanks for the in depth response, some good points there, what do you think would be a fair trade for jesse at this point? Any Dockers players take your fancy?
 
pokerspiv said:
If I had to guess I would say Sydney would request someone like Lee Spurr or Nick Suban to replace the retiring Jude Bolton.
Click to expand...

Looking at quality KPD more so. Have Mitchell, lamb, Jack and injured blokes to fill retirements. Trade in will be positional o reckon
 
Membling said:
Looking at quality KPD more so. Have Mitchell, lamb, Jack and injured blokes to fill retirements. Trade in will be positional o reckon
Click to expand...


Well the only KPD we have are Dawson and Silvagni. Sydney has typically not gone for young blokes in trades, but rather has preferred to take established mid-tier players and work them into their game plan. That's why I mention guys like Suban or Spurr. They are exactly the kind of player that Sydney has typically preferred. I guess Silvagni is a possibility, but I'm not sure how highly Sydney rate him.

And they can get stuffed
Click to expand...

Well, we aren't going to get him for nothing. And a player outside our best 22 is basically the same thing as nothing. So you have to be a little bit realistic.
 
mike91 said:
Jesse White for Silvagni?
Click to expand...

pokerspiv said:
Well the only KPD we have are Dawson and Silvagni. Sydney has typically not gone for young blokes in trades, but rather has preferred to take established mid-tier players and work them into their game plan. That's why I mention guys like Suban or Spurr. They are exactly the kind of player that Sydney has typically preferred. I guess Silvagni is a possibility, but I'm not sure how highly Sydney rate him.
Click to expand...

Not sure how keen our recruiters would be on Silvagni. Right profile but doubt he'd replace Grundy. Wouldn't be surprised if we just asked for picks if we did trade Jesse
 

Remove this Banner Ad

pokerspiv said:
Well the only KPD we have are Dawson and Silvagni. Sydney has typically not gone for young blokes in trades, but rather has preferred to take established mid-tier players and work them into their game plan. That's why I mention guys like Suban or Spurr. They are exactly the kind of player that Sydney has typically preferred. I guess Silvagni is a possibility, but I'm not sure how highly Sydney rate him.



Well, we aren't going to get him for nothing. And a player outside our best 22 is basically the same thing as nothing. So you have to be a little bit realistic.
Click to expand...

Lol. Spurr is a very important player for us. Clearly best 22. Not to mention he plays a position where realistically we are short on depth with. In the last few weeks we've been forced to play midfielders as medium defenders to cover for injuries to Pearce and Ibbotson.
 
Docker82 said:
Lol. Spurr is a very important player for us. Clearly best 22. Not to mention he plays a position where realistically we are short on depth with. In the last few weeks we've been forced to play midfielders as medium defenders to cover for injuries to Pearce and Ibbotson.
Click to expand...

would agree, however as unpopular as this may be, though Chrichton did good in that role against milne.

EDIT - not saying he should be traded and believe he is a very valuable member to our side.
 
Docker82 said:
Lol. Spurr is a very important player for us. Clearly best 22. Not to mention he plays a position where realistically we are short on depth with. In the last few weeks we've been forced to play midfielders as medium defenders to cover for injuries to Pearce and Ibbotson.
Click to expand...


I agree Spurr is best 22. I'm saying that's what we'll need to give up if we want to get a player like Jesse White.
 
arrow_dactyl said:
Hey stellation, thanks for the in depth response, some good points there, what do you think would be a fair trade for jesse at this point? Any Dockers players take your fancy?
Click to expand...

I must admit I simply don't know what they'll believe is a fair trade for Jesse, I'm hopeless when it comes to estimating that sort of thing accurately.

My understanding is during trade week last year there were potential suitors that were put on hold whilst the potential Adelaide trade played its drama out- so there was some interest. Brisbane were interested in Jesse, and he actually went up there and met with them, but in the end traded with Melbourne for Stefan Martin; I believe they gave up a 3rd and a 4th round pick for him and I suspect that would have been the trade they would have made for White also.

So if we take the Brisbane trade as a real world pricing example, we can say the 2012 asking price was a 3rd rounder and a 4th rounder. At that stage Jesse was a guy full of potential who had shown glimpses a couple of years earlier but appeared to have stagnated. Brisbane were primarily focusing on Jesse as a backup ruck/forward and I think were happy if he could simply expand his 2012 performances in that role across a full season, and the price probably reflects that. For the Swans they were looking for cap room,

In 2013 I think it's fair to say that his value has increased, but it's hard to say how much- I think the salary he can demand has certainly increased, but I just don't know how much his trade value will have. I think a 2nd round pick is probably a reasonable ask now, beyond that it's simply hard to tell because it's a relatively odd situation; he started the year a fair way down the depth chart for the Swans as a key forward (not so far down as a backup ruck), and everyone who started the year ahead of him is still under contract for next year- so whilst he's arguably performed better in the role than they have, the Swans have a dollars problem. Beyond that there's the Mumford situation, he's off contract and the rumours are that there's a reasonable chance another club can turn his head, in which case Jesse's importance goes up again.

So as a vague suggestion, I'll just say "I'm guessing probably at least maybe possibly a second rounder. I think."
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Freomaniac said:
Considering Freo have the Week off, any of you guys going to be watching any WAFL games this week?

Im going to AAMI stadium to watch the SANFL finals and see if there is any decent forwards playing.
Click to expand...

Thats the sort of commitment we like. :thumbsu:
 
After watching Tippett and White's rise in form I think the burning desire for a KPF is a little shortsighted. As it looks at this stage we sill have Pav and Sandi and Mcpharlin for another year in which they will be in and out with injury. That leaves us another year of needing to squeeze Clarke and Griffin and preferably Hannath into the side. Hannath IMO is a KPF in the making. He just needs some time on the park with some experienced forwards which we have. With Morrabito returning we will have even more flexibility with the HFF's and FP's. Also Keplar is hanging around if Pav goes down.

A year is a long time in footy and IMO waiting for a potentially more attractive market next year won't hurt Freo in the slightest.
 
Lost_Deputy said:
After watching Tippett and White's rise in form I think the burning desire for a KPF is a little shortsighted. As it looks at this stage we sill have Pav and Sandi and Mcpharlin for another year in which they will be in and out with injury. That leaves us another year of needing to squeeze Clarke and Griffin and preferably Hannath into the side. Hannath IMO is a KPF in the making. He just needs some time on the park with some experienced forwards which we have. With Morrabito returning we will have even more flexibility with the HFF's and FP's. Also Keplar is hanging around if Pav goes down.

A year is a long time in footy and IMO waiting for a potentially more attractive market next year won't hurt Freo in the slightest.[/quote]

How many more years are we going to say that for?
Click to expand...
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Key Forward

Similar threads

King Huskii
Autopsy Cox forward
Replies
23
Views
2K
s_wd6
s_wd6

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top