Key Position Defenders - have things changed?

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A few weeks ago, when Podsiadly was tearing Maguire apart and even Hawkins was kicking goals, key position defenders looked like being our achilles heel, both now and in the medium term (2-3 years). A few solutions were offered - use our 1st draft pick on a tall defender, trade one in, draft several of them this year, look for a mature ager to fill a gap.

Have the last two weeks changed that? Despite Cloke kicking a bag, McKeever won several contests with the bloke recognised as the best contested mark in the comp. He's one for the future and he's got to be some sort of chance to be promoted permanently to the senior list. Maguire has produced 2 very solid performances in the last two weeks, showing a willingness and ability to stymie opposition forwards through his contested marking and hitting the pack hard.

I wouldn't be comfortable with either of them as our 1st/2nd defenders going into 2012 but, with Merrett and Patfull to return to the mix, can we go forward with that foursome as our key position coverage down back? I note good judges have Lester also as a taller option down back although I think we may need some patience there, like we would with any non-mature aged draftee.

It might be a little early to tell. Next week, we'll based faced with probably the tallest forward structure in the comp which will be a challenge for Goose and McKeever.

But, if nothing else, the defensive stocks may not be as dire as expected.
 

Judge

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Have the last two weeks changed that? Despite Cloke kicking a bag, McKeever won several contests with the bloke recognised as the best contested mark in the comp. He's one for the future and he's got to be some sort of chance to be promoted permanently to the senior list.
It might be a little early to tell. Next week, we'll based faced with probably the tallest forward structure in the comp which will be a challenge for Goose and McKeever.

But, if nothing else, the defensive stocks may not be as dire as expected.


A certainty, I would have thought.

Has shown enough to be given more than another year as a rookie (more than Golby for example, whom I also think is promising).
 

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I thought Maguires 2010 form was really impressive, for whatever reason he didn't have the ability to replicate it at all this year until the last 2 weeks. I like the idea of keeping him on for at least one more year. I think he should be a back up to one of Merrett, Patfull or McKeever if they go down with injury next year.

Posted this in McKeevers roster thread, but he showed he is definitely one of the fittest big men at the club. Kept up with Cloke the whole game. He will be the big improver in the off season. Put on a few more kg's and give him the 2nd or 3rd best forward and we will see how good he can be.
 
Happy with what we have and/or are developing as far as KPD’s POBT. What I think we also need to consider from the next draft or develop from the ranks is the 7th defender, the floating/zoning ball watcher who moves in to assist at a contest.

Drummond and Adcock seemed to share this roll on occasions on Saturday but without being to despondent it’s almost like sending a blind man into a minefield with a stick, as both are so prone to injuries reality suggests we need to plan now as it would seem highly optimistic for either to last a full year…

If Retzlaff can put on 5-8kgs between now and the 2012 season I would love to see him and his aggressive at the contest attitude used down back next year.
 
If Retzlaff can put on 5-8kgs between now and the 2012 season I would love to see him and his aggressive at the contest attitude used down back next year.

He'll need a lot of work. They dropped him down back in the second half of the reserves last week. It wasn't pretty.
 

charles202

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I dont see the benefit of keeping Goose for another year, whilst he has really returned to form the last couple of weeks.

I see our first string tall defenders as Sauce (FB), McKeever (CHB) and Patfull (3rd).

Should one of these guys down we have Rhino or Staker who can fill in down back. Not to mention Collier if he is still on the list. These options are in addition to anyone we acquire through the draft.

Due to where we are at with our development I think that the oppurtunities should be given to the players who will be around for another 10 years.

Goose has been a valuable addition to the team and if he doenst play on (somewhere) would be a great person to keep around the club.
 
a genuine CHB.

Some clubs would take the view that you don't need one or, at least, you don't need one who is elite. Hawthorn, Carlton, St Kilda, West Coast are good teams that don't have gun CHBs.

On the other hand, Taylor and Reid are almost indispensible to their sides.

I am undecided. I like the thought of having one but, prior to the last couple of weeks, I thought our greater need was to find a pure defensive stopper to replace Merrett. I still think that is the case. None of the alternatives have proven themselves capable of actually play on a dominant full forward but they are OK in that 2nd or 3rd forward role.

McKeever has plenty of potential though. Could easily step up again next year.
 
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Some clubs would take the view that you don't need one or, at least, you don't need one who is elite. Hawthorn, Carlton, St Kilda, West Coast are good teams that don't have gun CHBs.

On the other hand, Taylor and Reid are almost indispensible to their sides.

I am undecided. I like the thought of having one but, prior to the last couple of weeks, I thought our greater need was to find a pure defensive stopper to replace Merrett. I still think that is the case. None of the alternatives have proven themselves capable of actually play on a dominant full forward but they are OK in that 2nd or 3rd forward role.

McKeever has plenty of potential though. Could easily step up again next year.

I 2nd that:thumbsu:
 
He'll need a lot of work. They dropped him down back in the second half of the reserves last week. It wasn't pretty.

What wasn't pretty from your observations dlanod - was it lack of body on body weight, looked lost by always playing/trailing the man and not playing/attacking the ball on its merit, just disorientated/unfamiliar with the role.... or please no - all of the above?
 
With McKeever showing a bit this year, it certainly helps my concerns with our key defenders. However, Mckeever i think would be best as a 3rd tall. I'd still like to see us use a draft pick to bring in a goo athletic smart genuine CHB. I also still wouldn't mind bringing in a mature age guy from state league either, just for a bit of depth maybe on the rookie list. At worse, we get a defender for the 2nds, who i believe have also been short on genuine defenders this year.
 
What wasn't pretty from your observations dlanod - was it lack of body on body weight, looked lost by always playing/trailing the man and not playing/attacking the ball on its merit, just disorientated/unfamiliar with the role.... or please no - all of the above?

Repeatedly nowhere near his man. Just seemed completely lost, standing in space. Didn't see a lot of body contact or pursuit of leads with an attempt to spoil, but it was at the opposite side to myself. Also probably not the best environment to judge him in as he wasn't the only one.
 
Repeatedly nowhere near his man. Just seemed completely lost, standing in space. Didn't see a lot of body contact or pursuit of leads with an attempt to spoil, but it was at the opposite side to myself. Also probably not the best environment to judge him in as he wasn't the only one.

Standing space? - Not the only one?

With the score heading towards the 100+ point loss maybe the defenders were manning up and the 'forwards' playing a plus 9 flood/zone?

Cheers ;)
 

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It looked more like Retzlaff got pushed down back given the the ball wasn't getting up forward to see how he handled playing as a defender (since we were 60 or 70 points down already). When I say "standing in space", it was more of the "seemed completely lost" rather than a plan.
 
On the weekend I was very impressed with McKeever's mobility, endurance and willingness to be a part of the contest and I believe that he will continue to improve - which you would expect due to his limited experience. The man looks a genuine athlete.

At the same time you have got to love Goose for his strength and courage but for me I do not see an upside - I think we have seen the best that he can deliver.

I think the club will invest in McKeever for the long haul and keep Goose for one or two more years as insurance, if Goose can get an extra yard of pace then IMO he would increase his value. (and I mean no disrespect to the fella as he has overcome some terrible injuries)

The comments about getting a replacement for Merrett intrigue me - surely not GWS of GCS bound?

GO LIONS!!!
 
The comments about getting a replacement for Merrett intrigue me - surely not GWS of GCS bound?

GO LIONS!!!

I think these comments have just been made with an eye towards the future. Merrett's still got plenty of years left in him but it's obvious how shallow our defensive depth is when he goes down. Considering the time it takes to develop KP players best to start developing one early so when the time comes we have an adequate replacement. As for him going anywhere of all the players on our list Merrett is the one I'm most confident will never go anywhere. Lion through and through.
 

Surly Boy

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I think replacements for Merrett and Drummond are going to be important for us going forward. I have been wondering if we should follow Carlton's lead from last year and focus on drafting defenders - get a KPP that we can develop while we still have guys like Merrett, and add some rebound capacity at the same time.
 
I think a Drummond replacement is more important than a Merrett replacement.

Drummond was a bargain though, hopefully Hadley can find a similar gem this year.

I'm definitely not against looking at the state leagues for someone within the 21-24 year old age bracket to keep us steady if Sauce or Goose goes down. I'd definitely be keeping Goose for another year at this stage.
 
I hope Patful can get back to the form of two years ago. He used to have fairly decent skills and run... where did they go? He still is a pretty handy defensive spoiler and it doesn't seem like he needs to drop into the midfield occasionally now, so why don't they whack him on a weights program to put that extra bulk and strength on that they have avoided because they wanted to keep his endurance.
 

Old Den

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Merrett will turn 27 before the start of next season...he has missed 6 games in 2010 and 12 games in 2011 through injury - when he has not played there has been a gaping hole left at full back because he has been the only specialist full back on the list and the various players used to cover for him play much better in other defensive roles...I acknowledge Maguire's good game at full back against Collingwood but that is an exception rather than the usual result over the last 16 games of Merrett's absence.

The 2 inexperienced players that could be worthy of playing alongside Merrett in the next few years and MAY be able to be moved to full back with confidence if Merrett is out are Lester and McKeever who have less than 10 games between them so are obviously not ready for such responsibility now.

If an experienced defender is added to the list by trading or drafting in the next few months it would be reassuring (to me at least) if it turns out that he can play a solid game at full back.
 

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