Kick Straight WTF

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

Why is everyone going on about us not kicking straight. Looking at the scores last weekend we kicked 17 behinds. Port kicked 19 Adelaide and the bulldogs kicked 16 behinds. The pies kicked more goals then anyone else who played and kicked the highest score. I would be worried if we had 17 set shots from directly infront 20 meters out and missed. But most times we are kicking from 50 or 60 meters out or there simply rushed through. So whats the problem?

 

[Hadders]

The fact that we've done it 3 weeks in a row is the problem. The fact that we're lucky that it hasn't cost us a game so far. The fact that if it continues it will cost us a game against a side decent enough to take their opportunities.

Those are the problems that have to remedied sooner rather than later.

 

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

The fact that we've done it 3 weeks in a row is the problem. The fact that we're lucky that it hasn't cost us a game so far. The fact that if it continues it will cost us a game against a side decent enough to take their opportunities.

Those are the problems that have to remedied sooner rather than later.

But my question is are we missing from dead in front all of the time or are we creating more oppertunitys from a long way out or roving in tight packs snapping at goals. And i guess if we keep kicking more points and goals then any other team like last week it wont cost us. I would rather keep peppering the goals then be a bloody Swans and continue to kick 6 or 7 goals every week. Boring

 

[Hadders]

But my question is are we missing from dead in front all of the time or are we creating more oppertunitys from a long way out or roving in tight packs snapping at goals. And i guess if we keep kicking more points and goals then any other team like last week it wont cost us. I would rather keep peppering the goals then be a bloody Swans and continue to kick 6 or 7 goals every week. Boring

We are missing some very gettable goals, goals that we should be kicking. Rocca and Cloke's set shots have been terrible and there have been some other culprit's as well.

Yes if we kick more points and goals we'll win, but if we kick 1.8 early (or whatever it was on the weekend) against a decent side we'll be behind by a lot more than 20 points. If we kick poorly against the Dogs this week, I can almost guarantee you we'll lose.

 

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

We are missing some very gettable goals, goals that we should be kicking. Rocca and Cloke's set shots have been terrible and there have been some other culprit's as well.

Yes if we kick more points and goals we'll win, but if we kick 1.8 early (or whatever it was on the weekend) against a decent side we'll be behind by a lot more than 20 points. If we kick poorly against the Dogs this week, I can almost guarantee you we'll lose.

Ok then lets have a little guessing game. I will start i predict the pies to kick a score of 15-16-106 in a winning score. To win by 19 points.

 

[david_345]

We're not too far off with our kicking. While Anzac Day was atrocious, 35 scoring shots is pretty good and the last two games haven't been too bad compared to other teams:

Rnd 6:
Coll 11.20
Saint 18.17
WCE 10.17
Lions 17.18
Port 10.16

Rnd 7:
Coll 17.17
Port 16.19
Adel 14.16
Geel 16.13
Dogs 16.16
Lions 9.15

Doesn't make us look so bad!

 

[Lockyer24]

The Crows-Dons-Blues games were all 8 goal plus wins if we kicked straight. I dont think our percentage reflects how well we have gone lately

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Who cares how it looks? I only care about winning, and our chances of winning are improved markedly if we kick goals rather than behinds.

 

[cult_hero26]

good point here, but remember...we're collingwood and off the field we aim to be the best, i.e. $100mil turnover, the lexus centre. on the field should be no different and we should kick straighter since it is something we can actually rectify.

we're collingwood and we're a cut above the other clubs - we want to be the best at everything.

 

[Kakano]

Who cares how it looks? I only care about winning, and our chances of winning are improved markedly if we kick goals rather than behinds.

percentage is important it cost us top4 last year

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If we win every game percentage means nothing, but I see your point. Of course, what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter whether other sides in the competition are similarly bad from week to week, we still need to kick a lot straighter.

 

[Marklar_33]

Regardless of the opportunities we are creating, we need to convert them! Bad kicking is bad football, and regardless of how the other clubs are going with their conversion rates, one day its gonna cost us (maybe this week)

 

[PieLebo87]

percentage is important it cost us top4 last year

This has been my biggest worry!

Our percentage is going to cop a bashing by the end of the year, and I know we have done well thus far, but if we are going to miss a 2nd, 3rd, 4th spot ect at the end of the year because of percentage, Im going to be fuming.

I guess its a fair comment to say that we have had a lot of shots missed from 40-50+ metres out. But Ive also witnessed simple Rocca, Cloke ect. shots missed that were just too gettable.

I mean Cloke and Rocca are the biggest culprits but there have been others too. Burnsy never used to miss so much either and Ive noticed has kicked a few behinds.

Hopefully the problem can be rectified. I mean, if we lose a game because of it, it wouldnt be so bad, as it would be a lesson well learnt if we lose because it'll become a sudden reality check for the boys but if we miss an important position at the end of the season because of percentage then Ill be fuming, it wouldnt sink in as much.

Hopefully problem can be rectified soon. Bring in P Daicos, bring in P McKenna, bring in B.T. Its not so hard, who knows, at least 1 of these guys can make a difference for us! Look what Scott has done for our tackling.

 

[Coin_Toss]

percentage is important it cost us top4 last year

I bet your bottom dollar that Collingwood can make the top four without a great percentage. If we win enough games we will make the top four. The same applies for (most) other sides. FWIW, the difference at the end of the day was we lost to Essendon.

 

[MarkT]

Collingwood have generally been a poor kicking side for a long time. Too many of our players have average or lowed kicking ability and some of them have been otherwise very important players. Apart from the recent attention on goal kicking you could go back to game 1 and take a look at the turnovers and work your way froward from there. As far as goal kicking is concerned Rocca is his and miss and Travis is mostly just miss. Not only is that clear from watching him the stats indicate he is amongst the worst kicks for goal in the competition.

This has cost us dearly in the past (Tarrant in the 2002 GF comes to mind) and it will in the future. Rocca is Rocca and he won’t change now. Travis has to work hard and long on his kicking and it is up to Malthouse to make sure he does. He does not kick to AFL standard. When Pendlebury and Didak get the ball around 50 we get goals. When Travis gets the ball we get points. When Rocca gets the ball we run a lucky dip. I reckon if we still had Tarrant I’d have been committed by now.

We should have beaten Port and we should have buried a few others. We will pay a heavy price against the better sides if we don’t improve our kicking.

 

[mm fan]

Its great to say if we keep winning who cares about percentage but the time will come when we lose games because of it. Missing goals from 50+ you can handle but the easy goals inside 50 can hurt not just on the score board. Cloke could start to drop his head if he continues missing the easy ones like tarrant does. Cloke is getting heaps of the ball and would be the best CHF in the AFL at the min if he kicked straight , which would only help his confidence and make him a better player which can then rub off on the other forwards. Winning is good but i want to kick sides why we have them down.

 

[MarkT]

Just from some perspective, if Travis had kicked straight this year he would be talked about as the possible AA CHF. If Tarrant could kick straight we could very well have won the 2002 GF. You can't understate the importance of forwards being good kicks.

 

[Frederlick]

Collingwood have generally been a poor kicking side for a long time. Too many of our players have average or lowed kicking ability and some of them have been otherwise very important players. Apart from the recent attention on goal kicking you could go back to game 1 and take a look at the turnovers and work your way froward from there. As far as goal kicking is concerned Rocca is his and miss and Travis is mostly just miss. Not only is that clear from watching him the stats indicate he is amongst the worst kicks for goal in the competition.

This has cost us dearly in the past (Tarrant in the 2002 GF comes to mind) and it will in the future. Rocca is Rocca and he won’t change now. Travis has to work hard and long on his kicking and it is up to Malthouse to make sure he does. He does not kick to AFL standard. When Pendlebury and Didak get the ball around 50 we get goals. When Travis gets the ball we get points. When Rocca gets the ball we run a lucky dip. I reckon if we still had Tarrant I’d have been committed by now.

We should have beaten Port and we should have buried a few others. We will pay a heavy price against the better sides if we don’t improve our kicking.

Mark T I have to agree. As a person who conducts training as my profession I have watched goal kicking pratice at the Pies, and it was a waste of time. Did not appear to assess outcome of each kick, it was not under match conditions or from a set position or problem area and there seemed to be no feed back as to the results. This was last week, so maybe it was take it easy day, but somehow I think not. I'm not saying this to impress, but to impress upon people that poor training leads to poor results. The structure of goal kicking practice should be done under match conditions, at match ranges and all results including kicking actions should be assessed. Players should be given a goal kicking practice target to achieve and leave the session feeeling they have improved some aspect of the action. If this puts pressure on forwards so be it, it is a pressure job, and dealing with it should also be part of a training program. I'am talking about the structure of the training, not the outcome, I was lucky to kick the skin off custard as a footy player and know that teaching goal kicking is not my place.

 

[Jabso]

I've heard training sessions where kicking actions are taped and such, but no club really gives it much time.

The days of having 50-80 shots at goal in a training session are over. The players get way too sore after this. They don't even kick it that much during a game, even if you're a mid. They seem to put more effort and power into goalkicking so after just 20 or 30 they'd be wrecked and could pull up sore for the game.

But it's something to look into getting players to do during the off-season definately. They spend most of it trying to put on weight, lose weight what have you but if they had a day in a week in an offseason where they have over 50 shots at goal it could work. But at the end of the day you can't replicate the matchday pressure and atmosphere, Cloke, who hasn't got the best goal kicking routine/technique (it changes every kick) would benefit from it, but Rocca who is generally a pretty good kick technically wouldn't.

Perhaps they could bet big money on the oucome of each kick? Or have a "Don't Forget Your Toothbrush" style thing where every missed shot they smash their car a little bit.

 

[MarkT]

I have hear a lot of recently retired players and coaches currently at clubs talk about the training and medical staff emphasising that additional kicking training will upset the balance of player’s programs and the risk of injury etc. Frankly I think coaches need to take charge and tell the medical and training staff that they must incorporate additional kicking and if that means less running or modified weights then that what has to happen IMO. Kicking is a non negotiable fundamental aspect of being a quality side. I’d rathe have Travis Cloke kick 4 goals in the first half and then have to rest him a bit in the second than have him kick his 6th point late in he last quarter. I am sure they could find other ways to get fitness up anyway be it swimming or the grinder or whatever. I’d rather have had Tarrant kick those two goals in 2002 than have to argue about whether Rocca kicked a goal or a point.

Good points about the training basis Frederlick.

 

[Frederlick]

I've heard training sessions where kicking actions are taped and such, but no club really gives it much time.

The days of having 50-80 shots at goal in a training session are over. The players get way too sore after this. They don't even kick it that much during a game, even if you're a mid. They seem to put more effort and power into goalkicking so after just 20 or 30 they'd be wrecked and could pull up sore for the game.

But it's something to look into getting players to do during the off-season definately. They spend most of it trying to put on weight, lose weight what have you but if they had a day in a week in an offseason where they have over 50 shots at goal it could work. But at the end of the day you can't replicate the matchday pressure and atmosphere, Cloke, who hasn't got the best goal kicking routine/technique (it changes every kick) would benefit from it, but Rocca who is generally a pretty good kick technically wouldn't.

Perhaps they could bet big money on the oucome of each kick? Or have a "Don't Forget Your Toothbrush" style thing where every missed shot they smash their car a little bit.

No your right, you don't want them out there doing 40 or 50 set shots you want 10 or 15 assessed shots from where they are having difficulty hitting and then look at what is causing problems. Whilst you can't replicate match pressure you can get their heart rate up and create somne 'perceived' pressure. Grabbing the footy and dropping some bombs during training is not a solution, nor is doing nothing or trying to sort it during pre season, because the problem is now and doesn't appear to be going away.

 

[MarkT]

10 or 15 shots?

Frankly I’d rather they spend the entire week kicking and getting massaged and not run a single cm or lift a single weight. We have to realise that kicking is a non negotiable fundamental. If we can’t kick we can’t win premierships.

 

[Frederlick]

10 or 15 shots?

Frankly I’d rather they spend the entire week kicking and getting massaged and not run a single cm or lift a single weight. We have to realise that kicking is a non negotiable fundamental. If we can’t kick we can’t win premierships.

It is a fundemental, but just doing it a lot won't neccesarily fix it, they have to identify what is causing it for each individual, it will be different for Rocca than say Cloke. They should put heart rate monitors on them and start them kicking at different ranges and angles and then see at what point the accuracy drops off as fatigue and heart rate kick in and erode motor skills etc. Then they can determine if it a structural problem with their kicking style, fatigue or pshycological or a combination. Whether this can be done properly during the playing season is debateable. The thing they should do is introduce a set of competencies that young players have to meet before they can play AFL level footy, this would include goal kicking accuracy if you are a foward or on ball player etc.