Kickboxing - General discussion

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MMAPride Scott

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Hi guys I watched the glory card and quite enjoyed so thought id start a kickboxing thread, I know K1 is running again I use to be a fan back in the day and it was good to watch something a little bit different. I always thought Kickboxing would take off big time if they ditched the bigger gloves and went for a MMA style glove
 

BradWCE

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I think this thread is a good idea. The boxing general discussion thread doesn't get much activity so I don't see why we can't have a kickboxing one too.

I don't keep up to date with kickboxing anywhere near as much as I do with MMA. I think the next big event is Glory 12 which has perhaps the best kickboxer in the world competing, Giorgio Petrosyan. dytronik made mention of this in the MMA thread.
 

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BradWCE

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Glory 12 is this weekend with Giorgio Petrosyan fighting in the tournament. The heavyweight tournament at Glory 11 had some upsets so you never know what could happen here, but it's likely that we'll see Petrosyan fight twice.

Jack Slack does amazing breakdowns of fighters/fights. This whole thing is worth a watch, but especially the bit starting at 6:30. That head movement is ridiculously good.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1858667-the-finest-striker-on-the-planet-giorgio-petrosyan
 

Ross

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Petrosyan got flattened by a left hook in the third round after comfortably taking the first two rounds. Incredible result. Andy Ristie, his opponent, then went on to also KO the guy considered to be the number two in the division.
 

BradWCE

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Just got round to seeing Glory 12 now, these Glory cards have been great. Ristie knocking out both Petrosyan and van Roosmalen in one night is an amazing accomplishment. There were a lot of good fights and the fight that was probably the worst one still had an amazing finish, with Ben Edwards getting the late KO.
 

dytronik

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All the Glory 12 fights can now be watched (or most of them anyway):
http://www.gloryworldseries.com/en/videos?show=events&id=368&page=1#videos
Glory 12 is this weekend with Giorgio Petrosyan fighting in the tournament. The heavyweight tournament at Glory 11 had some upsets so you never know what could happen here, but it's likely that we'll see Petrosyan fight twice.

Jack Slack does amazing breakdowns of fighters/fights. This whole thing is worth a watch, but especially the bit starting at 6:30. That head movement is ridiculously good.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1858667-the-finest-striker-on-the-planet-giorgio-petrosyan

Jack Slack also wrote an impressive breakdown of the defensive capabilities of Petrosyan and how Ristie was able to nullify his defensive capabilities:

http://fightland.vice.com/blog/jack-slack-the-technical-mastery-of-giorgio-petrosyan

Van Roosmalen is far too small against the likes of Ristie to be able to implement his game plan. The reach disadvantage proved too be the difference especially when Ristie had him against the ropes with van Roosmalen only connected on a few hooks.
 

BradWCE

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Damn, nothing posted here for ages.

I've been watching the Glory cards, which have really delivered some good action. Ristie's next fight after amazingly knocking out Petrosyan was against Davit Kiria. That fight was amazing. It was terrible to see Spong break his leg at the last event.

Glory 16 is on this weekend, which has some interesting fights. Pat Barry and Sergey Kharitonov will be familiar for MMA fans.
 

Jab

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Damn, nothing posted here for ages.

I've been watching the Glory cards, which have really delivered some good action. Ristie's next fight after amazingly knocking out Petrosyan was against Davit Kiria. That fight was amazing. It was terrible to see Spong break his leg at the last event.

Glory 16 is on this weekend, which has some interesting fights. Pat Barry and Sergey Kharitonov will be familiar for MMA fans.
Decent bump, and a relevant one. I quite like the Glory cards, it would be a lot better if they were broadcast better here, so too BJJ. Good reminder BradWCE
 

helter skelter

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Glory is awesome. ive only seen the last four cards but im hooked, i look forward to them more than any UFC event. the last card was a bit underwhelming, not a huge fan of the heavyweights, but the Ristie/Kiria fight from a while ago made me literally yell out in surprise and wake up the rest of the house.
 

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BradWCE

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I find it pretty hard to keep up with kickboxing. From what I can gather most of the best kickboxers at lightweight and above or maybe featherweight and up fight in Glory. Glory only goes down to featherweight, so all the best fighters below that are elsewhere.

Seems like a number of the best below Featherweight fight in K-1. K-1 used to have a lot of the best heavyweights and Light-heavyweights, but not any more.

K-1 World GP 2015 The Championship took place on the weekend. Haven't seen any of the fights yet, but apparently the last three are really good. Those fights start at about 3:18:00 into this video.

 

Gigantic

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So Glory just signed Saenchai, probably the p4p best Muay Thai fighter. He's getting a bit old but I think this is a good move by Glory from a publicity perspective. They'll get quite a few fans from this.

Saenchai hasn't even been fighting people of his caliber for a while now so I think this is a good move for him also. I think he'll adapt well to kickboxing rules.
 

BradWCE

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In the UFC 205 thread I mentioned something about Stephen Thompson's kickboxing. Instead of clogging up that thread, I thought I'd post here. This may be of interest to some on here.

I think Thompson was smart to go into MMA and not into kickboxing after his time competing in American Kickboxing. The level of striking in MMA is much worse than the level in kickboxing. That's to be expected because MMA fighters have to focus on a lot more than just striking. Also, the cage offers a lot more space for Thompson than a ring does, and that helps him. Thompson's stance and movement helps with defending takedowns too.

If he went into kickboxing and fought the best out there I think he'd have found himself coming up short against the best guys. Raymond Daniels went into kickboxing (he did have 1 MMA fight), and has found himself coming up short against the best guys. Daniels has fought 2 very good kickboxers and the rest of his opponents haven't been very good at all. He's fought a couple of MMA fighters in their kickboxing debuts.

The 2 very good kickboxers Daniels' has fought are Joseph Valtellini and Nieky Holzken.

He fought Valtellini 1st. He started quite well but he slowed down. He got his legs destroyed with low kicks. He got backed into the corner and beat up with punches. Eventually he got finished with a high kick.


He fought Holzken for the 1st time a while after. This one went worse for him. Holzken has fought in boxing, Muay Thai and kickboxing and used all that experience to his advantage. Holzken pushed Daniels back from the opeing bell. He got Daniels stuck in the corner and landed heavy punches to Daniels' body. Holzken landed beautiful knees that connected up the middle on Daniels' chin. Holzken landed low kicks when he wanted to. Holzken knocked him down 4 times in about 7 and a 1/2 minutes. Daniels did knock Holzken down once, but it was debatable whether it should have been scored a knockdown. Overall, it was a thrashing by Holzken.


The 2nd time Daniels fought Holzken was a better showing for Daniels. This was a 5 round fight, while the previous encounter was a 3 rounder. I think this played a big part in Daniels early success. Holzken was saving his energy. He wasn't throwing that much early on. Daniels was throwing a lot and his style uses a lot of energy in general. Daniels may have been up 2 rounds to 0. In the 3rd round Holzken was starting to get on top. He landed a knee that opened up a huge cut and that was the end of the fight. A much better showing from Daniels, but when the cut opened up the momentum of the fight had really turned.


Thompson would have had the same issues that Daniels has if he had gone into kickboxing instead of going into MMA imo.
 

BradWCE

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Rick Roufus is arguably the best full contact (American-style) kickboxer ever. Back in 1988 he took on a Muay Thai fighter, Changpuek Kiatsongrit. The rules favoured Roufus. Low kicks were allowed, which favoured the Thai. Clinching, sweeps, throws, elbows and knees weren't allowed, which favoured the American. The rules were exactly what Roufus was used to, except for the addition of low kicks. The rules were very different to what the Thai was used to. Early on it was all Roufus. He knocked the Thai down twice in the 1st round and broke his jaw on the 1st knockdown. Roufus was a much better boxer than Changpuek was. The flashy kicks were causing the Thai problems too. Over time the momentum swung in Changpuek's favour. He chopped away at Roufus' legs and eventually Roufus couldn't continue because his legs were brutalised. This was a brutal bout. Changpuek had his brain rattled around a lot early and had his jaw broken. Roufus had his legs destroyed with low kicks.


It's a great fight between two men who were unprepared for their opponent's skillset. A very young Duke Roufus is interviewed at the end of the fight and talks sh*t about low kicks. He changes his view on low kicks some time after this interview.

Rick Roufus would avoid bouts that allowed low kicks for a long time after this fight in 1988. He fought Rob Kaman twice in bouts that favoured Roufus. Low kicks were a huge strength of Kaman's, he's called Mr. Low Kick for a reason. The 1st fight between them was originally won by Roufus by decision, but became a no contest because the 4th round only went for 1 minute. In the 2nd fight Roufus KO'd Kaman. Roufus fought Ernesto Hoost twice under a ruleset that favoured Roufus. The first time Roufus won by decision. The 2nd time Hoost KO'd Roufus.

I'm biased because I like Muay Thai and other forms of kickboxing (Japanese and international rulesets) more than the American style. The American style is fine to watch, but it just doesn't interest me as much as the other rulesets. Like I said, I'm biased. That being said, I think the American style generally doesn't translate very well to the other kickboxing rulesets. Some fighters come from the American style and have a lot of success (such as Benny Urquidez), but often times I think the American style really gets found out under different rulesets.
 

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